is oral sex cheating?

[ruffboy]

(part 1 of 2)

have actually made plans to have my cock sucked in the next couple days with a woman is just gaga for me and it, but i'm married..........

so, is it cheating?

where is that line drawn for y'all?

i know it will be different for everyone, just wondering where people stand

holy wow y'all!! 57 years on this website and i think this is the biggest thread i've ever given birth to, my goodness of graciousnesses!

first of all, thanks to all those who have given some really GOOD, empassioned, thought out, mostly reasonable tits for tats from all sides of the coin, when we have good discussions on here (or anywhere in life) its amazing and amazingly helpful. I appreciated those who supported AND condemned me here, though higher point values obviously go to those who post more than a clumsy one liner. praying mantis, you're a doll, i've missed our chats. And as you know on this particular subject (my sex life/history) i do believe you have been made privy to many more of the real details than others and your open honest sharing of your own experiences have been a great help. gillette, rob just rob, fleur, dgirl, guy-jin, joca, principessa, spoiled princess, badgirl22, helgaleena, iscream, ladyshady, fgomes85 thanks for giving it your insightful intelligent attentions, its genuinely appreciated.

i'll hold out on the juicy details no longer, despite some of you expressing simple and total outrage at even the concept I put forth and now probably my mere presence, i know we're all secretly addicted to seeing the train wreck and not averting our eyes (otherwise how do you explain 'reality' tv) so here is the outcome: the offer for a bj (and more) was true, arranged and was from the OTHER WOMAN (caps only for emphasis on such dirty words as those). we did not meet. i did not entirely think i would either, and i know she did not entirely assume i would, (we joked about that) nor would she have guaranteed shown either. as some of you 'get', the world is far more complex than just a black and white situation. which is why i generally try to avoid judging others in black and white terms or demanding black and white circumstances. the OP which i copied above, some of you may have gathered, had one sentence on the BJ written in quite goofy language, followed by three sentences in sober language asking about what 'we' here all thought about the situation, the concept. yes, i was considering it, of course i was considering it, i always consider it, YOU always consider it, we always then make choices on it. i chose not to here and pretty much knew i wouldn't as i wrote the post, but i was very much interested in outside random input, “a discussion”.

now, to the random input, its one of the reasons i don't post here that much anymore, way too many take way too many liberties in assuming what is going on for or to someone else when they post and then seem to revel in sanctimonious condemnation of the poster who more often than not was genuinely hoping for help in getting through one of life’s situations. that being said, the OP's could stand to give a lil more info so peeps aren't forced to assume one way or another. given that now, and for the sake of further discussion, here's a good part of 'my story':

wife and i have been married for 17 years,together for 22; i lost my virginity to my wife; she's had three partners besides me (one a hs bf she had steady for several years before we met, another a one night stand during the time we were dating before marriage, the third a female who she played with, with my consent, and I participated for a small amount of it over the phone); i've had two sexual partners outside of our relationship (one a one night stand when we were engaged, the other a bj from a coworker about 10 years ago). Each of us know about four of the other five people, I have not, and don’t plan to, told her about the bj. Read on if you want a glimpse of my horrifically immoral and dastardly rationale as to why.

We have what most everyone who knows us describes as the best marriage they’ve ever seen. We’re asked constantly for advice and our only real pieces are what most of you said here, ‘communication’. Trust is not #1, because there is no trust without communication. Also, if you are lucky, may you marry your best friend. We did. We are devoted to each other, we WORK at the relationship, we try our damndest to fight fair, we are unabashed at PDA’s, we fall down, we get back up again, we TRY as hard as we can, and when we are too tired from life or from ‘it’ we, if we can, prop each other up or at worst, wait patiently for the other to come back around to us or for both of us to stand up again and continue on.

neither of us (relative to what seems to be most of the world) have had 'many' sex experiences besides each other and we have talked about this throughout our dating and marriage. my one night stand during engagement came several months after wife was crying in my arms in bed one night saying she was worried i had (to that point) never had anyone else and it made her fearful entering a marriage where i may not know what i want sexually, therefore how does she know that SHE is it, and then said i should find someone. so a drunken night of partying ended in a fun session, the only one i've ever had where my cock entered someone else's vagina. we both talk very openly and honestly about attractions to other people, we have discussed open marriage, of inviting someone else to join us (have yet to do this out of the fear of what the hell do you say the morning after??), we've shared fantasy stories involving other people to get each other off in bed, we've confessed that we each would find it amazingly erotic to watch the other with someone else, actively participating or voyeuristically, and more than anything, after 22 years we recognize that the reality that your soul mate, your life partner, your best friend is still a human being and while they bring you more than you ever knew, they don’t and can’t possibly bring you EVERYTHING and to expect and demand that from them often leads to disappointment and resentment. So we have grown to a point now in the relationship where the ‘others’ are not simply acknowledged or tolerated, but actually are coming to, with the right people, dropping the jealousies entirely in favor of rejoicing that they are there to provide what I can’t to my best friend and increase her happiness. If you haven’t been in a long term relationship where you have absolutely valued your partner’s happiness over all else then I can’t explain this to you. This hasn’t grown into sex with those others, nor do I expect it to, or expect it not to. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t.

 

[ruffboy]

(part 2 of 2)

there is no denial of sex as a matter of policy from her. However she has issues of a medical and deep seated emotional nature that we have worked on and around for the full 22 years that do at times prohibit her from fully, freely, engaging in her own sexuality. Being her partner, that obviously results in a trickle down effect of ‘denying’ me at times but it’s not of the nature of her being a sexless being devoid of libido or lust, simply that her particular set of circumstances with her history and body leave her in no positive mental or physical state to engage in sex at that particular moment. Sometimes this situation can be around for days, sometimes weeks, sometimes months. I have never forced her to ‘give me what I want’, I see and know what she went through and know that no good comes of forcing her, most especially only to satiate my own lustful ‘needs’. I jerk off a LOT. This situation has gotten much better over the years and decades, there used to be things we simply could NOT engage in for fear of setting off bad memories for her, or could not engage in due to actual physical pain. As we’ve learned her body and as we’ve healed her wounds, she’s been able to open up more and more of herself and it keeps getting better. Unfortunately we’re also like all of you fighting one of the other major forces: age. Maybe I’m still hot to some of you but honestly how much longer WILL I be? Not much I fear. If I ever was ever going to experience some of these other things in life sexually that some of you throw flippantly around as been there done that, my timeclock of doing it when I’m relatively young, relatively in shape, and relatively attractive to anyone else is rapidly declining. Pretty soon I’ll be an old man that no one would even consider sex acts with, including myself! ;-p

Now, maybe you’d gather this fact simply because I sometimes find myself hanging around this den of inequity known as LPSG and have been lucky to engage with a few of you in some crazy zany gaga sex talk to get each other off (yes, some of YOU are married to and I don’t think any of you didn’t know I was married when you did me!) but I have a fairly gonzo sexual appetite. To put it bluntly, I’m into some sick shit from time to time (compared to puritanical values) and I’d ask you how do you mesh those relatively ‘fleeting’ carnal lusting DIRTY desires with a situation with your partner where its not always going to be received well? And that is not to say that SOME times she isn’t right there with me, sometimes she blows me away with something she’ll come up with, but other times the mere mention brings forth a frightening tirade. There is a history and diagnosis of bipolar in several of her family members including both of her siblings. I’m no doctor, but things I’ve experienced in the 22 years lead me to believe she’s susceptible to succumbing to such a situation from time to time, so is it worth it to say “lets tie each other up tonight, blindfold, spank, tell each other dirty stuff” when it is a literal crap shoot as to which reaction you’ll get? And believe me, I am decent enough at reading moods, but you don’t always know what might be lurking under what appears to be a good mood. I’ve gone for it sometimes, many of those times it’s been good, some of the times its been neither here nor there, and then the rest of the times its been BAD. And then we get to work for another couple months to get over the thing that was just fine, or even got her off to where she was squirting, not two months ago.

So I’ll admit, I’m a little gunshy when it comes to the hardcore stuff but I don’t think many of us are brazen as all hell when it comes to that, unless you’ve found yourself a completely sexually compatible mate, which, good on you! Again, we DO talk, we share, but you simply can’t lay everything on the table even over the course of 22 years it seems. Anyone else here notice how FAST time moves when you look back on it??

Now, back to the BJ and cheating. I agree, if its anything of a certain ‘level’ sexually that you’re going to do with someone outside the relationship that you CAN’T or won’t tell your partner because you either feel guilty or know it would very much upset them, I’d consider that cheating. As for what constitutes that certain sexual ‘level’ it is like everything else up to each of our own personal definitions but I’d start it at anything involving genitalia. I’d also though include heavy making out IF it’s tied to some heavy strong feelings of love, if you are losing your heart as well. That being said, I’m entirely in agreement with PM and a couple others here, insofar as cheating is not 100% of the time a bad thing. I have had many cheating thoughts (not actual deeds but desires or playing out what ifs), and IMO going through that exposes you to learning more about yourself and what you want, need, don’t want, don’t need, desire, all of that. And it seems to me, if you know more about yourself, know what you want, you are just a LITTLE bit more equipped to work that into your life with your partner. Those of you who had sex with 10 people before you were married, you GOT to explore and find out what you liked, didn’t like, needed, didn’t need and hopefully you’ve built that into a successful adult relationship with someone special. If you were a really good kid though and lost your virginity to your spouse, explain to me how in the hell you discover who you are WHOLLY sexually? My one escapade into cheating with the bj was absolutely amazing, I would do that again with her, she was an entirely non-drama woman who just happened to be one of the most sexually charged people I’ve ever met, who also was one of the most sexually compatible to me I’ve ever met. She offered up far more than just a bj and I did not do that but I did get sucked off. Yet amazingly, 10 some years later, I’m MORE in love with my wife today than I was then.

also, our marriage vows did not include "foresaking all others", people do have different vows ya know

Anyway, that’s a long fucking post, I need coffee you fuckers

And quit judging others when you don’t know enough of their story

 

[ruffboy]

and a couple quick answers to some direct questions:

how would she feel if she caught me getting a bj? it depends, a couple months ago she told me she was wet all day during a conference thinking of what me and her friend we were entertaining might have been doing in our hotel room during the day

how would i feel if i caught her sucking off another guy? i'd get a huge fucking hardon and enjoy the show. deal with it ;-p, i'm not threatened and know that we are for each other and a bj is a bj

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Sk thanks so much for giving us some more insight to the situation. You've been more than generous with the explanation about your relationship and reasoning behind it. While i didnt know all the components, i knew enough to understand why you would want to and why you wouldnt want her to know.

In a perfect world, we'd all have the relationship qualities we say others *should* be having if they are married and really love each other. It's not black and white for sure.

 

[nicenycdick]

I've held off from posting here...only because I have gotten tired of trying to describe how difficult it is to be in a marriage that is wonderful in all ways...except that it is without sex. I began my membership here with a small blog about that, and it may help those who care to understand me if they looked at that. I explained than that I loved my wife more than anything else in the world and that she felt the same for me. All aspects of our 28 year marriage are and should be the envy of all we know. But she has had no sex drive for many years...at all. Despite some serious attempts to resolve this issue with her, it has been long abandoned for many reasons, the most significant being that it only brings her tremendous guilt and sadness. I made a decision after becoming a member here to seek my sexual satisfaction outside my marriage. There is some recognized selfishness in that decision, since I would never willingly end my life with my wife by leaving her. But it is not a case of having my cake and eating it, too...It is not a decision lightly reached. It has, after all, been many years since this issue has been with us and it is only recently that I have recognized that it will never get any better. I suspect that my wife believes that I am satifying myself elsewhere, but she would never raise or discuss that with me.

I will not discuss whether I have been successful in my decision to find satisfaction outside my marriage. I can only say that simply making that decision has released me from the anger and frustration I've felt through many years of rejection.

I post now for only one reason, and that is to say this: Do not judge another's life. You can not possibly know what is right or just or reasonable or good about how another person seeks to resolve the crap life sometimes throws at you. While some acts can clearly be judged, most lie in a grey world where equities must be balanced...where our decisions result in a sharp swing between joy and remorse.

Sometimes, there is just no easy choice...

 

[ruffboy]

very well put nicenycdick and gratefully recieved! there is a certain amount of self-worth and positive self-image tied up in successful sexual relationships. thanks for sharing your story, i'll have to check out your blog as well and good luck with your continued steps down whatever path YOU choose!

and i hear ya PM, there is the fairy tale we're all fed on what being in love and marriage means and then there's the best you do every day to make it all work. like nyc, i have a fantastic marriage, the LOVE is insane, the love making requires more work on both our parts and we do work at it. i wouldn't trade the LOVE for the sex any day and, shocking as it may seem, i've had several opportunties but have chosen my wife every time in the end and she has done the same for me

 

[Brensta]

If you have to ask if its cheating.. its cheating. If you are open about it with your partner and both give consent, its not getting.

Cheating is when you break the rules you as a couple define in your relationship.

 

[B_Hung Jon]

Fuck, I hate the word "cheating". To me it's just this catch-all term that the pop culture uses to make people feel guilty about having sex. If you want to have sex with someone other than your wife, then just do it. But remember that there are consequences to your actions. I don't feel that sexual morality is in a category all by itself. If you're truthful with yourself about who you are, then you should be truthful to your wife as well, or get out of the relationship.

 

[3151]

Fuck, I hate the word "cheating". To me it's just this catch-all term that the pop culture uses to make people feel guilty about having sex. If you want to have sex with someone other than your wife, then just do it. But remember that there are consequences to your actions.

This makes no sense... don't call it cheating, but if you do it there are consequences???? What would those be? Your wife either is hurt, kicks you out or you get divorced?

She would tell her friends what? Ohhhh, yeah! "He CHEATED on me."

 

[Gillette]

LMAO @ the deleted "I stand by my judgement" post.

 

[helgaleena]

Sk bum, You are a very fortunate man. And if your dear wife knows all about it, it is impossible to be cheating.

 

[ruffboy]

Sk bum, You are a very fortunate man. And if your dear wife knows all about it, it is impossible to be cheating.

thank ya, and yeah, that's the obvious path, just when/where/how to pose the question. and believe me, its not a pipe dream entirely on my part i'm fairly certain, she wouldn't mind having a dally here or there herself

LMAO @ the deleted "I stand by my judgement" post.

which one was that? i was curious if any more of the actual backstory would prompt anyone to see more of the grey area here or if those who chose the path of righteous condemnation stay the course....

 

[Gillette]

which one was that? i was curious if any more of the actual backstory would prompt anyone to see more of the grey area here or if those who chose the path of righteous condemnation stay the course....

Just some charming flower who chose the path of righteous condemnation and said if that made her judgemental she would stand by that. And then failed to stand by what she said when she deleted her post.

Sometimes it's the little things that are most amusing.

 

[Fleur]

Just some charming flower who chose the path of righteous condemnation and said if that made her judgemental she would stand by that. And then failed to stand by what she said when she deleted her post.

Sometimes it's the little things that are most amusing.

I deleted it because some of the people on here don't want to talk (like you)...you want to be a-holes. And supporting monogamy and being honest and not lying to your partner seems to be a tough thing to do on this site. As people like me, who love sex and also love monogamy seem to be a rare breed.

A lot of people on here just want to poke, not actually have a discussion...so I deleted it. It's a function that's allowed on the site. Get over it. I wasn't doing it to "hide" ...I deleted it because it's just going to fall on deaf ears and my words would have been twisted.

There's no point in me posting either when it'll just inflame the people who support cheating with rationalizations that support their behavior.

In short, my post was not about judgment...you miss the point entirely (wow...which is why I deleted it!). I said I didn't like lying and I chose to delete the post because of people like you who are rude to anyone who disagrees.

I come here to have fun...not to attack people (like you do), be catty, passive aggressive, and nasty when you think it's cute and funny. It's not cute or funny, it's unattractive and mean.

I feel like this site is going in a direction where you can't give an opinion or decide to retract out of a discussion without getting poked at or mistreated (in fact I deleted it to avoid people like you attacking me)...especially some of the women on here...it's become trend to poke, make fun, and chase people off the site. And I don't need you harassing me in the petty way you're doing or suggesting I deleted the post because I don't "stand by my words" ...I do. I just have no desire to continue posting in this thread past this post.

This is a support group...not a make fun of people and act like we're 13 group.

 

[Xcuze]

Well the definition of cheating is not playing by the rules.

So it all depends on what rules you've set for your relationship.

Simple really.

 

[Gillette]

I deleted it because some of the people on here don't want to talk (like you)...you want to be a-holes. And supporting monogamy and being honest and not lying to your partner seems to be a tough thing to do on this site. As people like me, who love sex and also love monogamy seem to be a rare breed.

A lot of people on here just want to poke, not actually have a discussion...so I deleted it. It's a function that's allowed on the site. Get over it. I wasn't doing it to "hide" ...I deleted it because it's just going to fall on deaf ears and my words would have been twisted.

There's no point in me posting either when it'll just inflame the people who support cheating with rationalizations that support their behavior.

In short, my post was not about judgment...you miss the point entirely (wow...which is why I deleted it!). I said I didn't like lying and I chose to delete the post because of people like you who are rude to anyone who disagrees.

I come here to have fun...not to attack people (like you do), be catty, passive aggressive, and nasty when you think it's cute and funny. It's not cute or funny, it's unattractive and mean.

I feel like this site is going in a direction where you can't give an opinion or decide to retract out of a discussion without getting poked at or mistreated (in fact I deleted it to avoid people like you attacking me)...especially some of the women on here...it's become trend to poke, make fun, and chase people off the site. And I don't need you harassing me in the petty way you're doing or suggesting I deleted the post because I don't "stand by my words" ...I do. I just have no desire to continue posting in this thread past this post.

This is a support group...not a make fun of people and act like we're 13 group.

Who are you trying to kid? This entire post of yours is an attack against me.

If you're capable of reading without injecting your own dislike of me you'll see that I've managed to disagree with a great many people at different times on different topics without making fun of them or attempting to chase them off the site. I can even disagree with the same person on a topic in one thread and support their position in another simultaneously. Can you imagine? Disagreements based on thread subject or posting behaviour without making bullshit diagnoses or calling names. Why, it almost sounds adult!

You say you're only here for fun. I guess that means your holier than thou postings are your version of fun. Interesting.
You say you deleted it because you were worried that "someone like me" would twist your words, post a rude response or be incited to rationalizations. Well, I did see it and obviously did none of those things, so this is just bullshit on your part. I do, now, wish that I had at least quoted you so that your sanctimonious tone could have been read by others, but it shines through just as well in the post quoted here so no great loss.

I commented on it solely because the deletion of the post made the "I stand by it" within positively laughable. And I didn't post your name in the thread for censure, you outed yourself.

Another thing I find funny is that you seem to set yourself up as a paragon of virtue and maturity while displaying so little in your posts. You might spend some time working on humility. You're quite lacking.

Lastly, you're not the only one who believes in fidelity. I do as well. The difference is that I don't act like I'm on a pedestal judging the poor mortals beneath who don't measure up to my level of purity.

 

[Guy-jin]

Glad to hear your full story, sk. I wasn't sure what you were going through, but like you said, the issue is not black and white, so I don't pass judgment on someone for asking a question like that.

I'm not sure why people have this illusion that only those in unhappy relationships that are on the verge of divorce would ever cheat. The reality is the contrary--a lot of people in generally happy relationships cheat for a large variety of reasons!

 

[scottredleter]

No, it's not cheating. Just tell your wife as you're walking out the door, "See you in a few hours dear, I'm going out to have my dick sucked." That way everyone is on the same page. I can't even believe that you asked the question.

 

[chadstallion]

better not be.
I have a few married str8 men that would really be in trouble....:biggrin1:

 

[ruffboy]

Glad to hear your full story, sk. I wasn't sure what you were going through, but like you said, the issue is not black and white, so I don't pass judgment on someone for asking a question like that.

I'm not sure why people have this illusion that only those in unhappy relationships that are on the verge of divorce would ever cheat. The reality is the contrary--a lot of people in generally happy relationships cheat for a large variety of reasons!

i think that's all most of us ask for, not to be judged until you know more of the situation. to that end, the ridiculous nature of my original post was admittedly a bit of a setup, wanted to have some folks, as they most assuredly would, come out with sanctimonious condemnation flying, then see if, by revealing more of the back story, any of them would decide it wasn't a cut and try case or that maybe i wasn't destined to eternal hell for considering the possibility. and exactly what you say in the 2nd paragraph, that contemplating 'straying' isn't a sign of lack of love in the relationship, its a different animal than that. also that divorce is not the ONLY answer, and a pretty silly solution in all but the worst cases.

you're a gentleman guy-jin, thanks for the thoughts