Is perceived racism / bigotry actual racism / bigotry?

SpoiledPrincess

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I occasionally use the term Yankee's to people who live in the USA, occasionally one has been offended by this as they have by me referring to them as Americans. If any group uses a term but reserves it for their sole use how can they choose to find it offensive when what we see is that their use of it indicates they find it acceptable. You either have to choose to find the word offensive whatever source it came from, or realise that if it's in common use amongst yourselves other people aren't really going to always believe that it's some in joke amongst yourselves.
 

dong20

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Whoa, WHOA.

I know I'm new here, but as a black woman, this thread caught my eye, and I have to say, again, as a black woman, this is TOTAL B.S.

Nobody should be saying "nigger", regardless of the color of their skin. I'm so sick of black people making such a claim, saying that they have a privileged position with regard to language or anything else, so that they cannot be considered racist. Black people's use of the word, or certain concepts, etc., is not only just as racist, but maybe moreso.

The postmodernists' argument that the context defines the reality doesn't apply here. It's a nice bit of logic, but as a practical matter black folks' glomming onto the argument as a convenient dodge serves to create and perpetuate racism. I'm sick of it, and I'm a little shocked that no one else has really called out this person before now.

I thought it was out of line too, though sadly it's not the first time I've run into that double standard. My initial comments (couple of posts back from the link) were meant more tongue in cheek than a serious observation, to show that we're all fallible and fall prey to stereotypes on occasion.

But the response suprised me with it's sense of... almost smug pride, such that I still don't know if the poster was being ironic. Her silence suggests not. I wondered if I 'misread' it, it seems not.
 

Principessa

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Hello lisasdong & welcome to LPSG.

Since you just got here and you don't know me, you don't know that I too am a Professional Black Woman and that I never use the N word in conversation with strangers, friends, or family. I wouldn't expect you to have gone through my over 5,000 posts to see that this thread is one of only maybe 2 where I even made reference to the "N word." I am also one of few that shout loudly in protest when racist, homophobic, sexist, or misogynistic trolls spout their vitriolic crap both in threads and in chat.

I strongly suggest that you check yourself, before you wreck yourself missy. :mad:

Whoa, WHOA.
I know I'm new here, but as a black woman, this thread caught my eye, and I have to say, again, as a black woman, this is TOTAL B.S.Don't hold back tell me how you really feel?

Nobody should be saying "nigger", regardless of the color of their skin. I'm so sick of black people making such a claim, saying that they have a privileged position with regard to language or anything else, so that they cannot be considered racist. Black people's use of the word, or certain concepts, etc., is not only just as racist, but maybe more so.It's self-deprecating and self-defeating but it is not more racist.

The postmodernists' argument that the context defines the reality doesn't apply here.Actually it does. You need to read the thread that was cited in the original post my dear. It's a nice bit of logic, but as a practical matter black folks' glomming onto the argument as a convenient dodge serves to create and perpetuate racism. I'm sick of it, and I'm a little shocked that no one else has really called out this person before now. You haven't even been here 24 hours and you want to call me out!?!? Perhaps we need to take this to a PM. Clearly, you have some issues that if discussed in a thread would instigate a battle royale. As a newbie you don't know we are just settling down into some normalcy after a particularly disturbing incident which went on for over a week. I have no desire to further divide and upset the members of LPSG.


PS - Are you Black? I wasn't sure. <---- sarcasm
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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I'm fairly sure you're referring to that spat we had where I took seriously something you said in jest (about Iraq) - but I'm damned if I can find it. I don't actually recall saying, or even implying, that all Americans are stupid. If you can find where I say that and bung me the link I'll be more than happy to eat my words along with some humble pie.

It wasn't a direct reference. Just something that everyone says. and usually nobody, least of all the frenchman with an exaggerated sense of national and self worth, bats an eyelash. but the comment was not meant to be directed squarely at you, MB2, and I don't recall you saying any such thing specifically, either.

The thread you are thinking of is here, though:

http://www.lpsg.org/et-cetera-et-cetera/55357-youre-doing-heckuva-job-georgie.html
 

ManlyBanisters

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It wasn't a direct reference. Just something that everyone says. and usually nobody, least of all the frenchman with an exaggerated sense of national and self worth, bats an eyelash. but the comment was not meant to be directed squarely at you, MB2, and I don't recall you saying any such thing specifically, either.

The thread you are thinking of is here, though:

http://www.lpsg.org/et-cetera-et-cetera/55357-youre-doing-heckuva-job-georgie.html

Ah - there is it - couldn't find the bastarding thing earlier to save my life.

Just checking I had been operating double standards really. Thanks.

I do hate to generalise but you have a point as regards the French (and it ain't just the men - 'Marianne' is just as bad, if not worse) - there is a national tendancy towards blowing the importance of France out of all proportion. It seems, looking at the US media, that there is a certain percent of the US population with a similar tendancy vis American culture / influence as the be all and end all.

'Course we Irish are far above that kind of thing, we'd never let on that it is actually us running the planet :wink:
 

whatireallywant

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I occasionally use the term Yankee's to people who live in the USA, occasionally one has been offended by this as they have by me referring to them as Americans. If any group uses a term but reserves it for their sole use how can they choose to find it offensive when what we see is that their use of it indicates they find it acceptable. You either have to choose to find the word offensive whatever source it came from, or realise that if it's in common use amongst yourselves other people aren't really going to always believe that it's some in joke amongst yourselves.

I know that a lot of people from the southern states of the US use the term "Yankee" as a perjorative to refer to people from the northern states. If you called a southerner a "Yankee", yes, that southerner may be offended.

I am originally from a northern state (but with many people who relate more to the South), and now live in a southern state. I don't care if anyone calls me a Yankee. I think someone did at one of the jobs I had here - since I'm from Indiana originally rather than from the South.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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A certain percent of the US population? Are you intentionally using outrageous understatement here? There's a HUGE percentage of the US population that is guilty of the same. and it embarrasses me daily.

I think all countries are guilty of this, though. Including the Irish. The Irish expat newspaper I used to peruse once in a while when I picked it up in Korea was a regular laugh riot it was so chock full of this sort of thing.
 

B_lisasdong

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I strongly suggest that you check yourself, before you wreck yourself missy. :mad:


Honestly, I don't really feel the need to discuss this further with you. Regardless of what you think of as your non-racist credentials, I stand by what I said about the "blacks are allowed to say x, but whites are not" comment. That kind of thing keeps us right where we don't want to be - wallowing in the racism. Only thing is, it's starting to be of our own creation. We need to get away from the teachings of non-leaders such as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the academics who teach us to "own" the vocabulary of our oppression. It's a bunch of nonsense.

So yes, I'm calling you out for what you said. Flawed, destructive thinking like that needs to be rejected whenever, wherever, it appears.

Edit: and honestly, reviewing your post again, I gotta tell you that the fact that you would question my "blackness", even in jest, says it all. The thinking I've been talking about is so locked in for our people that a person can't even call it into question without eliciting the claim that he or she isn't "authentically black," or some other nonsense. If suggesting that black people can't show the diversity of thought and opinion that other human beings do isn't racism, I don't know what the hell is.


 

naughty

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OK...

The offensive term in question was SHAMELESS NEGRO not NIGGER. Negro is not a perjorative, Nigger, Nigra, or Nigga are THE N WORD. I think an earlier poster mentioned that the conversation in which this term was used was not in open forum but a PM between two people of color on this board. The recipient chose to share the contents of this pm with the entire board. Though I have my own ideas of why either individual responded the way they did to one another it would only be my own conjecture.

As we are seeing this evening we have a number of people of color on this board who each bring their own personal set of interpretations to the table. What some take as intra racial banter others see as universally offensive. Message to all Think before you post. and realize that no group is monolithic.

P.S. The explanation for my profile. Since I am woman of color dressed in a slave costume in my picture I chose to use the antiquated term "Negress" to define myself. As for my behavior it alluded an intention to behave shamelessly ( for those who know me, shameless is relative! LOL! ) with Prepstud and Hickboy in SC as well as being proud to be a negress! Mystery solved! Next! LOL!
 

prepstudinsc

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What I find racist here is that every single post of Lisasdong has been to do with being Black. While we all should be proud of what we are, but don't come in here and shove the race card down everyone's throat. With posts being started off like "I'm a professional black woman", it automatically gets people started off on the wrong foot. While I respect and am proud of the fact that you are a professional woman, what does skin color have to do with anything--especially in the welcome thread. I can understand it in here, but when you start off posts about race and sex, it can be quite offputting, as people automatically (and often wrongly) associate things with those statements.

This is a heated thread and we all need to discuss these thing, but with a rational and cool head.

Bless your little hearts, precious ones.
 

prepstudinsc

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P.S. The explanation for my profile. Since I am woman of color dressed in a slave costume in my picture I chose to use the antiquated term "Negress" to define myself. As for my behavior it alluded an intention to behave shamelessly ( for those who know me, shameless is relative! LOL! ) with Prepstud and Hickboy in SC as well as being proud to be a negress! Mystery solved! Next! LOL!


We all know that Kimiqueisha has NO shame! :biggrin1:
 

B_lisasdong

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What I find racist here is that every single post of Lisasdong has been to do with being Black. While we all should be proud of what we are, but don't come in here and shove the race card down everyone's throat. With posts being started off like "I'm a professional black woman", it automatically gets people started off on the wrong foot. While I respect and am proud of the fact that you are a professional woman, what does skin color have to do with anything--especially in the welcome thread. I can understand it in here, but when you start off posts about race and sex, it can be quite offputting, as people automatically (and often wrongly) associate things with those statements.

This is a heated thread and we all need to discuss these thing, but with a rational and cool head.

Bless your little hearts, precious ones.

Sorry I offended you. The introduction was just an introduction. And I thought it important to reiterate that I am a black woman when responding in this thread because something told me that NJQT would consider my position irrelevant if she thought I might be other than black, based on her posts in this thread. After all, she essentially said that there were words that were OK if said by a black person, but racist if said by a white person. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that attitude would extend to thoughts and opinions as well, so I thought I might head it off at the pass by mentioning I am black at the outset. Please forgive me.

Why you would say, though, that it is racist to mention my race, I can't imagine. It seems like you are looking for reasons to take shots. I'll decline to throw a charge of racism back at you, seeing as there's no justification for it. I wish you had done the same.

Finally, I agree about the call for cool heads given the subject. You really feel that I'm the main violator of that principle, as opposed to NJQT? That's difficult to believe. Seems any objective person would notice her tone and volume, at least.
 

prepstudinsc

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Sorry I offended you. The introduction was just an introduction. And I thought it important to reiterate that I am a black woman when responding in this thread because something told me that NJQT would consider my position irrelevant if she thought I might be other than black, based on her posts in this thread. After all, she essentially said that there were words that were OK if said by a black person, but racist if said by a white person. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that attitude would extend to thoughts and opinions as well, so I thought I might head it off at the pass by mentioning I am black at the outset. Please forgive me.

Why you would say, though, that it is racist to mention my race, I can't imagine. It seems like you are looking for reasons to take shots. I'll decline to throw a charge of racism back at you, seeing as there's no justification for it. I wish you had done the same.

No, you didn't offend me, your statement just added fuel to the fire. I personally don't mind if there are "acceptable" words for individual races that are only useable by that race, while being considered racist if if others use the same word. My feeling is that you don't want anyone to use the "n" word, which is a fine opinion, but then you start off every post saying you are black. I really don't care if you are black, white, mixed, or purple. I only care about what you have to offer--regardless of race.
The only time color should come into a post is when you offer your opinion as to why "n" is not acceptable to you as a person of color. Most of the rest of the time, it doesn't matter, especially because you've said that you're here looking for dick--the color of which you did not specify.

I think you just came in to a heated discussion and came in strong, that's all.
 

Osiris

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Well, I haven't met 'all Americans' so I can't comment - I have met some extremely intelligent Americans with a rather polarized view of the world - I have met some quite intelligent Americans who were extremely aware of global current affairs and America's place in the wider scheme of things. I have met plenty of Americans of average intelligence. I've actually only met one stupid American I can think of.

That's why I hope I didn't say, imply or even have been read as saying I think all Americans are stupid, because I don't - and it isn't even my experience of those I have met.

I get your point about reality challenged - though I would call it skewed perspective.

Very well said. We all have our share of "functional idiots", but those of us that get off the farm and crack a book or read a newspaper, tend to know where we stand. I read the NY Times, The Evening Standard (London), and the Sunday Times (London). It's the only way to truly be a knowledgable contributor to the global dialogue.