Is Religion no longer needed?

[D_Humper E Bogart]

I wonder if the kind of religon is important? Like it or not, religous backgrounds are part of culture in "Chrisitan" traditions, Easter, Xmas etc. On the whole, what our leaders need to remember is that there's a time for thinking with your head, thinking with your heart and thinking with your dick. I get so annoyed when our leaders end up doing the wrong thing, and this is the most important reason for the seperation of church and state.

I was deeply annoyed at how powerful the Church of England is in the house of Lords, they literally have a great say over the laws of the land which superseeds to some extent the power of elected officials?! I'm sure that if Satanists or Muslims had equal power, than voters would be much less tolerant, I'm sure.

 

[DC_DEEP]

And what exactly is so noble about an atheist/agnostic organization stopping federal support for a CHARITY?

They should be ashamed of themselves.

Do you fully understand exactly what the faith-based initiative entails? Do you fully understand the objections to it? Bush's faith based initiative has more to do with allowing charities to WITHHOLD their charitable work from non-christians than anything. Those who oppose it are simply saying that if a charity receives federal funding, they should provide their services to any who need it.

Tell me, what is so noble about a christian charity telling someone "I know you are starving, but we won't feed you unless you have a prayer meeting with us and accept jesus as your personal savior"

???

 

[DC_DEEP]

That's understandable, Kot.

Back when I was still a church member, my church participated in a charity in my hometown. We had a residential homeless halfway house, funded by the county and the United Way. It was primarily (but not exclusively) for young couples and families. The requirement was that they could stay for a period of time (I don't remember, a month or two) and during that time, they would be given job search skills classes, and were required to actively seek employment.

My church was one of about 30 that kept this charity as one of their primary recipients. Each church collected clothing to donate, and once each month, one church provided dinner - so at least one meal every day was donated entirely by one of those member churches, and not at taxpayer expense.

When it was our turn, those who were providing the dinner would prepare it, and then deliver it personally. We took the food in, stayed just long enough to meet a few of the residents, and say "We are from First Presbyterian Church. I hope you enjoy it, and I hope your job search is going well." No proselytizing. No condescending. Just giving. The genuine gratitude was worth the efforts. I hope the other churches were not prying or preaching to those who were at the house, but I don't know. Some denominations just cannot resist asking at least once "Have you accepted Jesus as your personal savior?"

At any rate, my group didn't do that, and no one was turned down because of differing or non-existent religious beliefs. That's my big problem with the faith-based initiative; it allows charities which receive federal funding to discriminate against people who don't share that same faith.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

My two little nephews are in the process of being brainwashed in Catholic school right now. Little Jacob is barely able to form cogent sentences, how is he supposed to be able to reason his way out of any of this fantasy being presented to him as fact? I asked him about what he's learning in school, and he says "God and Jesus." Only after much prodding he sometimes answers "and letters sometimes." I feel bad knowing, from firsthand experience, the kind of devastating personal crisis of identity and faith they're both going to have to go through when/if they ever figure out that they were lied to through all of their childhood, that everything they know is bullshit... and then the painful years after that of trying to unlearn all that crap and form yourself into a reasonably whole and well-adjusted person. I feel really bad for them, but I know if I ever mention that the kids I teach in Korea aren't learning about God and Jesus (and paint it as anything other than tragic) and get along just fine, I'll probably be disowned by my sister. She already told me she would do as much if I ever let on that Santa Claus isn't a real person. I also feel bad for them because Andrew was shaping up to be such a tolerant little cracker when they lived in Centreville, which is an extremely diverse place. But Mandy and Chris have moved them out to the Gainseville/Haymarket area, where most of the other yuppy whitefolk have retreated to since the greater metropolitan area around DC continues to push outward, and now I don't think there's a single minority student in Andrew's class. He's going to grow up thinking of people not his own color not as playmates and friends and peers, but as "others." So my sister could live in a snootier neighborhood and afford a bigger house.

Anyway, my thoughts on religion currently: if someone later in life decides that religion fills some void in their life and that's where they turn, fine. But brainwashing children in Catholic schools or Islamic madrassas seems to border on child abuse. I know I've said very different things in the past, this is just how I feel at this particular moment. Probably because I see it happening to two people who are so close to me.

 

[Full_Phil]

I have hesitated to give a synopsis of Kingdom Coming because I have not yet finished the book... busy time here for me... but essentially it is something of an expose of Dobson and similarly inclined folks who want to rewrite history, dump separation of church and state, and make the United States a Christian Nation. This administration and certain members of Congress seem to be all too willing to help them accomplish this goal. Now, a Christian nation per se might not be such a bad thing if it operated in a tolerant and welcoming way, but these folks have a particular concept of Christianity that is pretty narrow and restrictive... kinda like a Christian version of the Taliban.

Clearly a reassertion of the separation of church and state IS needed.

Thanks, MB! Should I get the book to prepare myself?

 

[Full_Phil]

---And we need to stop this "abolish religion" bullshit that many people are trying to perpetuate. It will do more harm than good.

The people who think the comments on this thread have been about abolishing religion probably also believe registering firearms is about taking them away. I have tried, Blond and Silent, to understand why some of you actually believe both of the above, and continue to be totally mystified. Just my frustration, however, and I am NOT trying to start a new topic on this thread.

 

[D_Garmanswait Glassnads]

Theres less and less time to actually follow a religion today. My dad was brought up a roman catholic but sees way too much wrong with his religion so he rarely goes to church anymore but still believes in god.

I use my god as the combination of everything good in my life, the opposite for the devil. I don't pray or preach but I like to think I follow the same god that other religions follow just in my own personal way. I think it's best to make god what you want it to be.

 

[silentc]

Tell me, what is so noble about a christian charity telling someone "I know you are starving, but we won't feed you unless you have a prayer meeting with us and accept jesus as your personal savior"

???

That doesn't happen, and I've never seen evidence of it ever having happened. If this ever does happen, they should be completely defunded and required to re-pay any funding they have received in the past.

 

[silentc]

The people who think the comments on this thread have been about abolishing religion probably also believe registering firearms is about taking them away. I have tried, Blond and Silent, to understand why some of you actually believe both of the above, and continue to be totally mystified. Just my frustration, however, and I am NOT trying to start a new topic on this thread.

In this country we are guaranteed the freedom OF religion not FROM religion. If a kid wants to start a prayer group with some friends in his middle school or high school, that should be fine. In many places today, its not thanks to this movement. Many people in this thread are saying that parents should allow their kids to have a religious upbringing. So, where do you draw the line? The end result of all of this is the abolishing of religion.

 

[silentc]

The people who think the comments on this thread have been about abolishing religion probably also believe registering firearms is about taking them away.

One of the first things totalitarian governments have done in the recent past (ie. nazi Germany) was require their citizens to register their firearms. It makes it much easier to confiscate those firearms when you know who has them and where they live. Don't think that this can't happen again. You have to draw a line somewhere. This actually happened in New Orleans during the hurricane Katrina catastrophe. A foolish judge ordered the police to confiscate the weapons of all registered gun owners. So, thats what they did. The end result was roaming gangs of thugs had guns, and legitimate law abiding citizens did not. Look it up if you don't believe me.

We can't keep giving up our freedoms inch by inch, just because we aren't being 100% controlled yet.

 

[DC_DEEP]

That doesn't happen, and I've never seen evidence of it ever having happened. If this ever does happen, they should be completely defunded and required to re-pay any funding they have received in the past.

You are wrong. It does happen. And yes, they should be completely disbarred from federal funding. That's what I'm trying to tell you. The faith-based initiative would allow that sort of discrimination in federally-funded charities. Those who oppose the faith-based initiative are saying that it must be "federal funding must equal non-discrimination."

In this country we are guaranteed the freedom OF religion not FROM religion. If a kid wants to start a prayer group with some friends in his middle school or high school, that should be fine. In many places today, its not thanks to this movement. Many people in this thread are saying that parents should allow their kids to have a religious upbringing. So, where do you draw the line? The end result of all of this is the abolishing of religion.

Not true. You need to get your sources straight. In this country, we are guaranteed that the government will not create a state religion, and we are free to exercise our own religions (or not) as we choose, without government interference. Students ARE free to have prayer groups - as long as inclusion is voluntary, and students who choose not to join are not subjected to it. I was subjected to 5 years of mandatory prayers in my public school. In adulthood, I taught in public schools, and we never told students they couldn't pray. We just didn't pray together as a class. I ALLOWED EACH STUDENT TO MAKE THOSE CHOICES FOR HIMSELF, I DIDN'T MAKE THOSE CHOICES FOR MY STUDENTS, NOR DID I ALLOW ANY ONE STUDENT TO MAKE THOSE CHOICES FOR ANY OTHER STUDENT. I simply adhered to the first amendment concepts.

<...>
We can't keep giving up our freedoms inch by inch, just because we aren't being 100% controlled yet.

No argument here. I think the government has pretty much dismantled most of the first 14 amendments, but I get called a "liberal alarmist" if I mention any others besides the first two.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

A bunch of stupid hicks with assault rifles and their minutemen buddies are not going to stop the US military should the United States ever become a totalitarian regime. Nor is there any longer a need for an armed militia to defend against foreign invasion. These arguments have become obsolete. As for the judge in New Orleans, why doesn't that prove that we should be more aggressive about making sure all firearms are registered? You could twist that story either way but your way makes it sound like you are encouaging the emulation of lawless thugs. They didn't register their guns so we shouldn't have to either? That's a pretty irresponsible argument. People who don't bother getting driver's licenses and registering their automobiles have less chance of getting caught in a hit-and-run. Does that mean we shouldn't be required to be licensed to drive?

 

[silentc]

A bunch of stupid hicks with assault rifles and their minutemen buddies are not going to stop the US military should the United States ever become a totalitarian regime. Nor is there any longer a need for an armed militia to defend against foreign invasion. These arguments have become obsolete. As for the judge in New Orleans, why doesn't that prove that we should be more aggressive about making sure all firearms are registered? You could twist that story either way but your way makes it sound like you are encouaging the emulation of lawless thugs. They didn't register their guns so we shouldn't have to either? That's a pretty irresponsible argument. People who don't bother getting driver's licenses and registering their automobiles have less chance of getting caught in a hit-and-run. Does that mean we shouldn't be required to be licensed to drive?

So gun owners are obviously all "stupid hicks"? You're an idiot.

Furthemore, a small group of insurgents in Iraq have been resisting our military for years, and have been quite successful at it. In fact, it looks like we're pulling out in 08, so thats a victory for some "stupid hicks". You make it clear that you don't know anything about history or the military. The occupation of this country by a foreign enemy would be virtually impossible with well-armed citizenship. This was proven in Europe in several locations as the Germans utterly failed to hold onto certain parts of the Soviet Union because of common citizens rising up against them.

I only had one basic point to make on the New Orleans situation. Law abiding citizens need to have access to firearms, because criminals do.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

So gun owners are obviously all "stupid hicks"? You're an idiot.

Furthemore, a small group of insurgents in Iraq have been resisting our military for years, and have been quite successful at it. In fact, it looks like we're pulling out in 08, so thats a victory for some "stupid hicks". You make it clear that you don't know anything about history or the military. The occupation of this country by a foreign enemy would be virtually impossible with well-armed citizenship. This was proven in Europe in several locations as the Germans utterly failed to hold onto certain parts of the Soviet Union because of common citizens rising up against them.

I only had one basic point to make on the New Orleans situation. Law abiding citizens need to have access to firearms, because criminals do.

The ones who typically make the arguments you just made are.

You're an idiot.

 

[silentc]

The ones who typically make the arguments you just made are.

You're an idiot.

Excellent explanation of your idiot stance on the issues.

 

[madame_zora]

BEEP BEEP BEEP

We interrupt this regularly scheduled broadcast in order to bring you the following information.

silentc and jqblonde are both personalities who registered back in FEBRUARY of 2006 (anyone else remember what was going on then???)
Both have posted extremely rarely since then, and both are weighing in on the heavier topics in the last few days.

Make of it what you will.

We will now resume our regularly scheduled broadcast.

 

[madame_zora]

That doesn't happen, and I've never seen evidence of it ever having happened. If this ever does happen, they should be completely defunded and required to re-pay any funding they have received in the past.

I really hope you're 12. If you're of the age of majority and you really believe "that doesn't happen", then there's really no reason to address you further on anything. That level of ignorance is truly unfathomable.

 

[silentc]

I really hope you're 12. If you're of the age of majority and you really believe "that doesn't happen", then there's really no reason to address you further on anything. That level of ignorance is truly unfathomable.

Well, give me evidence of it having happened. Point me to a news story or something. If it does happen, it must be incredibly rare because the liberal media would be all over every single occurence. I'm sick of people assuming that this is some common problem. It's not.

 

[DC_DEEP]

BEEP BEEP BEEP

We interrupt this regularly scheduled broadcast in order to bring you the following information.

silentc and jqblonde are both personalities who registered back in FEBRUARY of 2006 (anyone else remember what was going on then???)
Both have posted extremely rarely since then, and both are weighing in on the heavier topics in the last few days.

Make of it what you will.

We will now resume our regularly scheduled broadcast.

But their styles are so dissimilar. No, wait, on second thought...

 

[DC_DEEP]

Well, give me evidence of it having happened. Point me to a news story or something. If it does happen, it must be incredibly rare because the liberal media would be all over every single occurence. I'm sick of people assuming that this is some common problem. It's not.

ding ding ding, we have a winner!