Interesting question that defies an easy answer.
Whether we can admit it or not, we want something from the other in any relationship. And that runs both ways... they want something from us. That is the entire nature of desire, and who wants a romance without desire?
I always tried, and still do, to justify an unbalanced relationship with the idea that "to love" means to willingly be ready to give without to expect anything back as a reward, well, gotta admit I was (once more) wrong.
So a relationship is always a form of exchange. An economy. What are you willing to give? and is that what your other seeks? Is what they offer something you seek?
I would put the question differently: what you have and are you willing to give, is that what he/she looks for? if it is so does she/he has something to give you back you were looking forward to?
Folks who just want to be themselves are acting selfishly- and folks who demand too much of others are acting just as selfishly.
Quite straight forward but so damn true!
So there is always, in any good relationship, a negotiation... often one that is not spoken of overtly... but there is a negotiation, nonetheless.
Again, very true but difficult to handle, you end up often giving without expecting a reward but deep inside there is something you need/expect which you don't get back and, even worse, as in my case, not brave enough to either point it out or to ask for.
A compromise. You give something of yourself, and probably have to give up something of yourself... your rudeness, perhaps... your ability to do as you please when you please without regard to other's... And so does your mate... you negotiate who's responsible for what... who is allowed to be more emotionally brittle and who is not... who has final say over what to watch, or where to go, or any number of minor topics...
This is, again, so very true but this is as seen from a person who is not part of "the couple", when you are inside it, part of it you often don't realize you might end up on an extreme like either giving up too much or asking for too much and when you start either one of the two trends for the other part it becomes a right to keep expecting such a behavior without to appreciate or deprecate the fact you are in one of the two situations; unfortunately a relationship is not like a contract in which you sit in front of a notary and agree on things to do or not to do or on what to give back for what you get given, let's don't forget that there is an initial phase where nothing of all of this is put on the balance, there is the attraction, the hormones and so on, these "problems" arise later
But they are all eventually negotiated.... and an understanding reached.
Really? I got to have been one of the unlucky ones who wasn't given this opportunity
And then life sets in and you each evaluate how well your partner is keeping to their end of the deal.
You are again talking about an out of the real world ideal situation, in real world you don't do such calculations, you just feel deprived of something and many a times you know, deep down, that you will never get what you expect to be given back, whatever it is, be it material or just emotional, things change along the course of a relationship...
A man who has given up freedom, given up hanging with the boys, given up power over how his home is decorated and who is obligated to check in with his girl over every tiny change in plans may feel all that is worth it, in exchange for the sweet regard and sexual attentions of a woman who cooks him delicious meals and takes care of innumerable small chores that make his life easier...
Hey, are you really sure we weren't dating the same one???
But if that woman starts to treat him shabbily, or never feels like sex, or reneges on enough other of the negotiations that are part of relationship... then that man may begin to feel he is holding his end up, while she is not...
Now I am pretty sure we did, can you tell me her name???
Is it selfish to dissolve a contract when the other party seems bent upon breaching that agreement? Or is the selfishness to be the party breaching their agreement? Is the selfish one the one who can no longer muster the regard and attraction that their mate thought was their's?
Well this is difficult as, again, both parts feel being in the right, one being used to get a lot without feeling in right to give back, the other one, on the other hand, feels in the right by not getting back even a share of what is giving to the other but who decides what is worth what? She cooks for me? That's a ten points score! I wash her car? Seven points so she still has a three credits to claim so, maybe, tonight after she cooks and gets a ten, you wash the dishes and get a seven but don't wash the sink so you get a minus two the balance goes to 5-0 and, bye bye sex, yes, sex after a while from ten drops to eight, then to five and then...
I have been told that that's how life goes, slowly things get back to "normal" (and what the hell normal means I was never given to know!) so the give and take doesn't work any longer, you just give what you have to give and take what there is to take, if then there is nothing much left to give, hmmm, she might be evaluating somebody who has more to give as, by the end, what does this "love" means??? In the actual world it seems we all go more for convenience rather than for feelings, nobody wants to give up on anything, the guy with the bigger car, and now a lot of you will say I am cynic, always comes seen with different eyes, no matter how much she loves you, same for the girl ten years younger and with more sexual appetite, you see her with different eyes, I think "dedication", what our parents back then used to have, is something that doesn't belong to a relationship any longer, abnegation and dedication are gone, all is put on the plates of a balance and we always try to make it bend on our side
How many women lose interest in sex because they feel they are doing too much of the work? making too many of the concessions? and that their partner is not holding up their end?
And how many, simply, quit it after a few months when they think they got what they wanted and used their body just for the attraction purpose? Ouch, headache... ouch, this medication is really pulling my libido down... ouch, my back hurts...
Relationships erode and fail when either party feels they are not being provided with the things they had bargained for.
You mean when the plates of the balance start to either level or bend on the side of the other part?
And, too often, we realize we made a bad deal... that what we are getting is not equal to what we give up... and resentment causes us to begin to renege on what we offered.
In a few words we realize we were/are dating a selfish person?
Is that selfishness? or fairness?
No answer here...
I can accept a woman for exactly who she is...
agree
but if she starts out accepting me, and gradually finds herself less accepting of me... is that part of her I must now accept, as well?
Very typical situation like "one has got to accept the other as he/she is" but, strangely, this is only valid on one part, one way acceptance
Must I suffer being disliked and ill-treated because I 'ought' to love her how she is, rather than how she was when we entered into relationship? Or was how she treated me, then, the very thing that was promised to me? the very thing I sought, and which is now withheld?
Now I gotta ask you her name!!!
Is it selfish to expect that which was promised to you?
Don't think so, even though was not a written contract or wasn't any hand shaking I suppose you try to keep on with it, obviously attraction may decrease during time, illness can cause temporary lack of desire, work stress may cause temporary lack of communication but this is true for both the parts in a couple
Sooner or later... you are forced to make a choice in how much you have given, and how little you feel a partner is willing to return.
Is not a matter of choice from my point of view, I was (and have to admit I still am) so much into her that I was also aware I was walking on my personality and bending myself to her will but, still, I had such a pleasure into being with her that I did willingly (not too willingly but, still...) accept in the hope that once stress causes were over things would have got back like they were at the beginning.
Survival, itself, is kind of selfish, I guess.
That's an instinct, I think it's called "survival instinct".
So, I think relationships end in selfishness... but that is not what breaks them up.
Agree
I think what breaks them up is inattentiveness.
Couldn't have ever find a better and shorter description for it.
People, in the rush and monotony of daily living, lose track of what they promised to give as the wonderful and precious things they sought and found in their mate become their daily expectation.
Exactly, like to expect dish washing, car washing, stay in rather than to go to a movie or for sex on the beach and the worse is that they don't want to break the monotony, a thing which requires no effort, I guess they get used to it and just quit being willingly to give, they just take if there is to take or, worse to the worse, having next by a company is what they look forward to, either their partner, a cat, a dog or a talking Brad Pitt doll would be exactly the same thing (and on purpose I don't mention sex toys).
We promise love and adoration, but find ourselves thinking less and less adoringly of our mate over time... we allow our image and understanding of our mate to change over time... and what we give changes accordingly... without any discussion or re-negotiation.
Don't agree 100%, in a relationship you get used one to the other, you give up on something you don't like about her and she does the same towards you, sometimes it's mutual, sometimes it's not, sometimes you talk about it sometimes you don't but for sure the routine slowly kills what we thought it would have been a life full of what it was like at the beginning, sex three times a day, soft tight skin, full round boobs and butt, always ready to battle cock, sharing house duties, sharing same taste for food and drink, sharing same timings for daily activities... that's the imaginary world, in the real world it's not like that but you can still negotiate, in my case, by example, even tough not kids any longer, my attraction towards my partner never faded an inch nevertheless we both weren't the same as when we met, that's what I thought was our safety anchor, the attraction, but then external factors which you can not put into the estimate come into play and then it all goes down the drain, especially if, and this is the matter of it all, selfishness was there since the beginning and you never found out or, even worse, you knew but you hoped it would change!
Relationships form, I believe, because all human beings, each of us, need to give of ourselves, and be given to...
we want someone to rely on, and that someone to feel they can rely on us.
Exactly, a matter of give and take, isn't it?
Am I selfish to want what I need?
Or, am I selfish to want to give?
A small, right amount of selfishness wouldn't hurt your life, I wanna learn...
And when I believe I have struck a bargain and get shortchanged? Am I selfish to take exception? Or am I righteous to not accept less than I fairly expected?