Is Suicide the Answer When It All get's Too Much?

[jason_els]

If suicide is the answer, the question is probably pretty stupid. It's the supreme act of selfishness. It exemplifies what I call the law of the conservation of suffering. Not unlike the law of concerning the conservation of mass (i.e., mass is never created or destroyed, but merely changes forms), I maintain that suffering is never created or destroyed, but rather is transferred from one person to another. In the case of the suicide, the person in question is so consumed with suffering that they end their lives. That suffering is transferred to those family, friends, and loved ones who then must live with the agony of that loss for the rest of their lives. Thus, suicide is the supreme act of selfishness, as it callously ignores the irreparable pain and suffering that will be transferred to and/or inflicted upon those who survive the suicide.

Is it not more selfish for others to demand how or when you live or die?

What on earth or in heaven makes you think you have a right to determine such a thing?

Suicide is not selfish in the slightest:

When committed due to mental illness, it's the illness causing the sufferer to commit the act. A person in the throes of deepest mental illness is incapable of rational action and thought.

When committed to save the lives of others it is, perhaps, the most selfless act possible because it places the lives of others above our own in the most final way possible.

When committed due to physical illness, it is done to spare ourselves and loved ones the horrors of agonizing death. It may allow us to find peace, recognizing that ultimately we must be as kind to ourselves as we would be to others.

 

[crescendo69]

In my freshman year of college, I went into a bathroom stall with a carton of chocolate milk and a bottle of aspirins. After swallowing eight pills in a half hour, I felt so good I changed my mind.

 

[bigbull29]

Is it not more selfish for others to demand how or when you live or die?

What on earth or in heaven makes you think you have a right to determine such a thing?

Suicide is not selfish in the slightest:

When committed due to mental illness, it's the illness causing the sufferer to commit the act. A person in the throes of deepest mental illness is incapable of rational action and thought.

When committed to save the lives of others it is, perhaps, the most selfless act possible because it places the lives of others above our own in the most final way possible.

When committed due to physical illness, it is done to spare ourselves and loved ones the horrors of agonizing death. It may allow us to find peace, recognizing that ultimately we must be as kind to ourselves as we would be to others.

You're right: there is nothing selfish in suicide as the person truly believes that he or she is doing the world a service by dying. People who say that suicide is a selfish act really have zero understanding of what it's all about.

 

[B_theOtherJJ]

Although quite a thought provoking subject, not very uplifting Hells....

I much prefer your light, fluffy tales of dumpster finds and Saturday night cookie baking.

However, on THIS topic, YES I have considered suicide at times (and I am sure some of you wish I would have), I came to my senses and realized thats feelings do pass, they are often "of the moment", and life is a much better alternative.

 

[Cowabanga]

Times were very rough for me and my family growing up with an abusive father. It was a court order divorce, for the safety of my brother and sisters. Then my mom did her best to support all of us and things were very rough, but no matter how bad things get we all sat around and sang songs.

The poor in the blue ridge mountains often sang blues and folk music to get by in life. So I think there is a precedent that singing helps you get by on rough time. I think conditioning of happy pick me up music as a child, when things were bad, become instill in you when you are grown up. Because in the back of your mind you think that sunshine is always around the corner.

Because of this, I like to sing happy song to my young relative as often as I can. Keep the tradition going. I also like to wake up with a song in my heart every morning.

It's not just about the silly song, but it's about making hope a conditioning reflex into your persona !

 

[Rubenesque]

Suicide is never the answer...

if a person has loved ones, they will suffer guilt and misery for the rest of their lives, missing the person who has gone and torturing themselves with "what could I have done?"

if a person doesn't have loved ones, someone has to find their dead body. A thing that can really scar a person.

 

[midlifebear]

Have to say the once again, Jason_Els wins.

Not too long ago I was asked to keep a promise. A very close life-long friend had been suffering pain from an incurable terminal wasting disease for more than 20 years that left her crippled and unable to care for herself. Her sight was beginning to fail. No amount of morphine seemed to dull the pain. She had to take amounts that effectively knocked her out. At her request I hired a nurse to help me get her cleaned up, dressed, and accompany us on a short flight to Zurich where I checked her into a hospice.

Three days later, after she spent a half hour thanking me for having the guts to help her, she painlessly passed away after giving the attending physician the go ahead to unclamp the IV to her arm.

Suicide is not a cowardly choice. Suicide is often the kindest and most loving thing you can do to help someone, at their request, accomplish whose life is nothing but non-stop physical pain.

Everyone should be allowed to die with dignity.

 

[ZOS23xy]

I went through eemotional upheavals several times and did consider and try to do suicide. I failed.

There's no future in a successful suicide.

 

[D_Penruddick Middlefinger]

Anyone who thinks suicide is cool or okay or unselfish has never seen the aftermath firsthand. We're not talking about offing yourself to end a war like the dudes at the end of "inglorious basterds," I'm talking about the "goodbye cruel world" depression based suicide. The medical case is more complex, as there is a necessary and appropriate distinction to be made in "allowing to die" and "assissting in" or "committing" suicide. These three types of suicide are not the same.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

These three types of suicide are not the same.

Very good point. I know that intuitively, but until now I've not heard it stated. Thanks.

 

[Symphonic]

I am a strong advocate for balance sheet suicide. There really are times to struggle and times to admit defeat.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

There really are times to struggle and times to admit defeat.

It's been said in various ways a million times already, so I'll say it again - I've always heard suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That would be when the problem is not a terminal illness causing great pain and suffering.

 

[Symphonic]

It's been said in various ways a million times already, so I'll say it again - I've always heard suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That would be when the problem is not a terminal illness causing great pain and suffering.

You are a 80-year-old fogey who's losing his damn mind to old age.

Temporary problem? No. "Chronic PAINFUL condition?" No. Sucks ass? Yep.

Just like paralysis.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

You read it wrong buddy.

 

[D_Penruddick Middlefinger]

Is it not more selfish for others to demand how or when you live or die?

What on earth or in heaven makes you think you have a right to determine such a thing?

How is it selfish for the ones who love you the most to expect you to come to them for help when you are in trouble?? Every suicide I know of ends with the refrain, "If s/he had only told us, we would have done anything to help them." This isn't selfishness, it's the opposite of selfishness.

Suicide is not selfish in the slightest:

When committed due to mental illness, it's the illness causing the sufferer to commit the act. A person in the throes of deepest mental illness is incapable of rational action and thought.

The person still has free will do they not? You seem to ignore this, as it tends to force people to take responsibility for their actions.

When committed to save the lives of others it is, perhaps, the most selfless act possible because it places the lives of others above our own in the most final way possible.

Perhaps throwing yourself on a grenade to save your platoon. But certainly not in all cases. I'm sure the suicide bombers operating in Iraq believe their actions will save more lives tomorrow than they will cost today. Would you say they are as selfless or heroic as the guy who throws himself on a grenade to save his platoon?

When committed due to physical illness, it is done to spare ourselves and loved ones the horrors of agonizing death. It may allow us to find peace, recognizing that ultimately we must be as kind to ourselves as we would be to others.

I knew you were going to trot out this chestnut. People who peruse this line of argument aren't usually concerned with the suffering of the person dying (perhaps you are an exception). Rather, they are concerned with ending the agony and expense of having to care for a relative that has become "burdensome" and is now cramping their style. They are concerned with themselves, not with any suffering endured by the person who is dying. Worse yet, the purported caregiver, who should be doing everything in his/her power to make the dying relative feel comfortable/welcome/wanted, is usually the one who tries to plant this insidious idea (i.e. the notion that they are a "burden") in their heads. God forbid we actually care for those parents & grandparents, to whom we owe a duty of care, after they have cooked our food, checked our homework, gone to our ballgames, listened to our concerts, cheered us on at graduation, and helped us try and make our way in life?! Why not just get 'em to kill themselves quick, so we can get back to fishing for porn on the internet? Oh, the compassion is just overwhelming!

 

[jason_els]

Anyone who thinks suicide is cool or okay or unselfish has never seen the aftermath firsthand. We're not talking about offing yourself to end a war like the dudes at the end of "inglorious basterds," I'm talking about the "goodbye cruel world" depression based suicide.

Then you don't understand depression. You do not understand that it's the illness doing the talking, the thinking, and the killing.

There's nothing selfish about it because the person you love or whose guts you clean-up isn't there and wasn't the person who did that to themselves. That person had a disease and died of it as surely as people with terminal physical diseases die of those. You just don't see the tumor or the virus or the parasite.

It pisses me off no end that so many people deny what mental illness is capable of doing to a normal person and then they judge that person as if they were perfectly sane. "Oh it's so selfish!" Is it selfish to die of cancer or HIV?

This country's understanding of mental health belongs in the Middle Ages (and the number of exorcisms done here every year proves it).

 

[Wish-4-8]

I would love to hear an Asian perspective on this subject where suicide is viewed as an understandable, honorable act. Not shame and cowardness that westerners feel it is.

I will say this. I remember hearing or reading about a suicide survivor jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. When he jumped, in that split second, he realized that all of his problems were solvable in someway shape or form.

 

[_avg_]

OK good answer. What about everyday things that just mount up on you and pile up? This movie is a good example of that

Those are a cancer, too.

 

[HellsKitchenmanNYC]

The reasons for depression might be rainbow varied from person to person. Chronic illness, disease and emotional depression. All roads eventually lead to the same place. It's going to be a tuff call on who actually has the right to kill themselves and it's all going to depend on who you're talking to about the subject.
Personally as a person that has had a bunch of bouts of deep depression and considered that as an option I'm certainly glad I didn't act upon it and know that an emotional imbalance/depression can and will be changed by either time, circumstances changing or other events. A chemical imbalance can be helped w/medicine. The real problem is when you're in the throes of it you cannot see the options or hope or any possibility of change and it gets worse and worse as the weeks/months go by. You simply can't see that anything could get better. It's like a drug addicts mind making them steal from their own mother to get drugs. Your mind makes you into a state you almost have no control over and alot of reason flies out the window. And everything just adds to it. Everything from the mail coming late to ending up broke. It becomes a steaming pile of you know what.
Incurable disease is a completely story, in my mind and I started this thread based on the clip I posted on emotional/chemical imbalance depression. Tho all discussion has been appreciated!
It's really sad when people do end up committing suicide due to an imbalance or a mental illness or psychosis. very much so.
As an example. let me offer a story: a close friend has a sister who ended up w/schizophrenia and other conditions. She spent the better part of decades in and out of hospitals and liviing in this friends basement. She was a recluse and hidden and did crazy, crazy things. She had been to every doctor under the sun. Cut to almost 30 yrs later and she found the right doctor that readjusted herd meds and now she's a functioning 'regular' person. She squandered a HUGE inheritance ordering vacuums and shoes and god knows what while she was sick. But at least she's better now, not suicidal or crazy acting. It just took the right doctor. Unfort. every doctor fo almost 30 yrs didn't get it right.

 

[_avg_]

I've always heard suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

That's interesting. As a counterpoint, all the alternatives are temporary solutions to the 'temporary' problems.....

And suppose the goal was to find a permanent solution to the endless onslaught of 'temporary problems'...???