Is Suicide the Answer When It All get's Too Much?

[pain4anangel]

Then you don't understand depression. You do not understand that it's the illness doing the talking, the thinking, and the killing.

There's nothing selfish about it because the person you love or whose guts you clean-up isn't there and wasn't the person who did that to themselves. That person had a disease and died of it as surely as people with terminal physical diseases die of those. You just don't see the tumor or the virus or the parasite.

It pisses me off no end that so many people deny what mental illness is capable of doing to a normal person and then they judge that person as if they were perfectly sane. "Oh it's so selfish!" Is it selfish to die of cancer or HIV?

This country's understanding of mental health belongs in the Middle Ages (and the number of exorcisms done here every year proves it).

Thank you. It needed to be said, but very few will understand it. Mental health illness IS an illness just like cancer, HIV, etc...! Some experience more severe than others. Some do not have money or insurance to get help and just like the alcoholic who is in denial of a drinking problem, not all those with mental illness realize they are sick. Illness of the mind is horrible because it clouds all judgement. People are saying that you can make rational decisions and just "opt out of suicide". It's not that easy.

I went for a long time without meds until I hit my personal rock bottom. Getting help for myself while being sick at the same time was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. You are weak and exhausted. The simplest task seemed like pushing boulders to me. I am on medications now and will be for the rest of my life. People who preach that medications are for people who are taking the easy way out have no clue what it is like. Tell someone with cancer that chemo is the easy way out. In both cases, you will just die sooner. I do want to make the destinction between depression and severe chronic depression, bipolar, etc. They are not the same. There is "feeling down" and then there is the day to day living with a monster in your head that you can't get rid of. When you think of suicide, your mind isn't just thinking "hmmm...that's sounds like a good idea!" Do you want to do it? Probably not. Is your mind spinning all over the place and does your heart feel like someone is ripping out of your chest? Most likely.

I have had people tell me that thinking about suicide was selfish. That just made me even more angry. Selfish? So I should live with this pain and sickness everyday of my life just so that you can hang out with me and not be sad if I die? No...you're the selfish one. Not everyone can ask for help either. That's part of the sickness. Hell, even when I did reach out to my friends, they never cared or knew what to do. They didn't understand I just wanted someone to be there in the same room with me so I wouldn't cut myself...so I wouldn't be alone with my thoughts.

Oh...and getting help...I went to a mental health emergency facility once (and never again) because I knew if I went home I would cut myself. I didn't trust myself (it was like two people living in my head). They told me "unless you are planning on killing yourself or someone else, we can not do anything for you". Well shit...I guess I have to kill myself to get some help around here. They sent me home with a stack of papers with doctors to call. They didn't care if I went home and carved myself up like a thanksgiving turkey as long as I didn't cut too deep I guess.

So that leads me to another point...doctors. In Ohio it can take six months to a year to get in to see a psychiatrist. True scenario: I called the docs on the list (most of which were outdated) and I couldn't get in anywhere. This didn't help much when I was about to lose my job, my mind, my friends...everything unless I got in somewhere soon. The one place told me that they are so booked solid that each year they have twelve slots open for new patients. One for each month of the year. Those are usually booked up within the first week of January. Many people do not want to check themselves into a hospital either for many reasons. One, they may not feel in bad enough shape to go. Two, the social stigma which can affect employment and towards your family and friends. And three, they don't always help.

My ex-sub has/had severe mental health problems. He has been put in hospitals several times. Most of it was when he was young, but still. So you put a bunch of suicidal kids together who have anger issues and depression...what do you think you get? Fights, insensitive staff, and a shitload of triggers. For those who don't know what triggers are...they are words or events that can instantly trigger your suicidal/cutting/depressive thoughts. Not exactly the most conducive environment.

It's not black and white. I had to go through years of trying out different medications to see which would work for me. They don't work the same on everyone ya know. Do the side effects suck? Hell yes they do. However, I would rather deal with those then go back to being that other person. Like someone else mentioned, going off of meds can be a HUGE mistake if not done properly. In my opinion, the withdrawl made me ten times worse than I ever was without medications to begin with. It was BAD and very, very scary! Especially doing it alone. Everyone had abandoned me by then. No one wants to hang around a Debbie Downer.

Would you isolate a friend who had a physical illness because they had to go to the doctor's office all of the time or felt too sick to hang out? Maybe some of you would. However, the treatment we get from society is disgusting to say the least. Unless you know someone personally who has had to endure mental illness or have endured it yourself, I can honestly say you have no clue...NO CLUE what it is remotely like. You are not yourself. Do you want to be happy? Of course. Will it let you? No.

I will confide that the one thing that has made me put off the thought of suicide ever again. I had a book called Suicide: Methods and Consequences. It detailed out all of the different ways to kill yourself, demographics, and the success/failure rates. That book is definitely not for everyone, but it was for me. I saw all of the statistics and was shocked to see how hard it was to have a successful suicide. I sure as hell didn't want to fail and be a vegetable, have loss of limbs, or be disfigured. This book was amazing. It actually talked me out of it by showing that it's not as easy to kill yourself as you think it might be. If I failed, then I would just be in an even worse position. I'd have people up my ass 24/7 and if I were a vegetable, I wouldn't even be able to kill myself again. And yes, I have seen many videos and photographs of those who have committed suicide. It happens. We are human. Is it sad...of course. I would be even more upset if I knew what my friend had to deal with inside her head everyday though.

Oh, and there is a newer movie out about Jack Kevorkian called You Don't Know Jack. I watched it and I thought it was amazing.

I'm just still waiting for the day when people will recognize it as a disease and not something that can be turned on and off like a light switch. It is a DISEASE! An ILLNESS! And just how physical illness can cause deep depression, deep depression causes physical illness as well. Just keep in mind what I said about how hard it is to get into a doctor. Oh, and in Ohio, I believe all but ONE mental institution still exists. When people go to the ER, many times they have no clue how to handle someone and do not have the means to do so. Getting help...when you finally can get help...is extremely difficult. Then you get to deal with the huge doctor bills that don't help any...

 

[MC1000]

I am a strong advocate for balance sheet suicide. There really are times to struggle and times to admit defeat.

Well said! I could not agree more. Not everyone's life is full of second chances. If you truly know yourself, your abilities, and options, there is nothing wrong with calling it quits. It can be a rational option. I'm not saying, " Oh my lover left me and I'll never love again, so I'm going to kill myself." That is not rational. On ther other hand if you are a person who has reached a point in their life where all you are doing is killing time until you die, why wait? You have no family or close friends anymore, and even if you did, why should you suffer to make those around you more comfortable? If they loved/cared for you they would/should not want you to suffer.
I know this sound cold, bitter and uncaring. Not so. I think for some people they reach a point in their life when they know that this is the best it is ever going to get and from this point on the only way to go is down. Example: My father has many health and physical problems. He is not in physical pain. Modern medicine can keep him alive and pain free for years. He is financially secure. About all he can do is make short trips to the store and watch TV. Most of this friends and family are dead or dying. He has had to bury two of his children and a third is ill. What does he have to liive for? More Matlock reruns? The possibilty that things may change? His friends and family are still dying. He is not going to get his life back. All that is in store for him is grief with the possibily of little bits good. If he decides his time is up and he wants out, I would respect that decision. None of this "it's a sin and God loves you stuff." None of this "you need to think of those you'll hurt and leave behind." None of this "hang in there things will get better with time." It won't. He is not depressed, in pain or dying of cancer or some other horrible desease, but if he decides he has had enough, then he has had enough. He is sane and rational and able to make decisions about his life. If he (or anyone else in the same situation) chooses suicide I would respect it. Why endure years of unhappiness (not depression but an unhappiness with your quality of life) just because society and religion says you have to. Fuck them! It is your life and it should be your decision when and how it is going to end.

 

[helgaleena]

Brave words, MC1000. It is harder than you think to die cleanly. Plan it very carefully and don't screw up.

That is what I did, botch the job. At least I wasn't a vegetable.

 

[pain4anangel]

Brave words, MC1000. It is harder than you think to die cleanly. Plan it very carefully and don't screw up.

That is what I did, botch the job. At least I wasn't a vegetable.

It is hard. It's one of the things I mentioned in my post on why I actually (eventually) talked myself out of it.

:hug: I'm glad you're here with us now

 

[IntoxicatingToxin]

Well said! I could not agree more. Not everyone's life is full of second chances. If you truly know yourself, your abilities, and options, there is nothing wrong with calling it quits.

Okay, true enough. But do you have any idea how few people on this planet are actually aware of their limits? Almost none. A lot of people think they can't do something, but they can. They're just afraid of trying, or too down on themselves to realize they're capable.

 

[THEDUDEofDestiny]

i fully plan on committing suicide some day because it is a romantic notion, the only time our human brains are capable of almost defying nature

 

[pain4anangel]

i fully plan on committing suicide some day because it is a romantic notion, the only time our human brains are capable of almost defying nature

Interesting notion. Do you plan on it when you are elderly and have health issues or before you reach that point?

 

[TheScotsman]

I hate people who throw themselves in front of trains. Fuckers deserve to be run over again for that shit.

 

[helgaleena]

I hate people who throw themselves in front of trains. Fuckers deserve to be run over again for that shit.

:rofl:

 

[Boobalaa]

Go out and Volunteer at your local crisis hot line because all of this typing words, sitting in front of a machine reading words is different from listening to people..NOT Hearing..Listening..Not giving advice..Listening..Crisis work is NOT Therapy..it's Crisis Intervention..However most callers use the Crisis Line to vent in between therapy visits, instead of therapy and some people are so used to being in therapy, it's a habit to call and talk to someone.."Loneliness, convenience and habit.." are most of the reasons people call..Not everyone is suicidal..
There are people who do not want to be "happy"..Your idea of happiness and their idea of happiness may not be the same..They have either learned how to live with the way they are and accept it..or/and..They are hooked into the system of therapy and medication routines ..and there are those who who think they are alright but the rest of the world is all fucked up..
If a person is dead-set on killing themselves..well then, if they're gonna do it, they're gonna do it..This whole idea of "Suicide Prevention" works..but again..if they are dead set on dying..Suicide is Murdering Yourself..so..ok then..
However, For all the rest who have attempted numerous times and have been hospitalized numerous times..it's only a matter of time before they REALLY SUCCEED..

The really sad people to listen to are the ones who don't wanna live but they don't wanna kill themselves either..

so try it out..look up your local crisis line on the internet and call um up for the next training..They usually want you to commit to 200 hrs ..which is 4 hrs. per week...

 

[likes2seemore]

i saw that movie (night mother)it had such a strong impact on me.i was upset for the better part of a week.it was all i could think about.it was so thought provoking.it was very well written,and the acting was amazing.i've been in severe depression on several occations in my life,and when you are so low,you wonder is there a way out.it is a sad situation.i truly think God holds special forgivness for a soul that was that tormented.

 

[simbasa12]

I hate people who throw themselves in front of trains. Fuckers deserve to be run over again for that shit.

That reminds me of when I lived in Seattle. one morning there was a gal ready to jump off the bridge on hiway 5 between Lake Union and Portage Bay. It was rush hour and people were pissed that she was holding up traffic, so they were telling her to jump as they drove by. Cops finally closed the roads down because it was getting so bad. She finally jumped after a couple of hours but she survived.

Alot of people were upset that she caused the mass disruption and they were talking about it for weeks after. She wanted some attention and she got it, is what alot of people felt.

I think she had a bad breakup. I have had a few of those. Haven't we all? Hopefully she got her shit together after that.... If someone really wants to kill themselves, they usually succeed.

 

[Bbucko]

Someone associated with me from work and occasional, generalized socializing (no real one-on-ones except for a ride or two home after work) whom I'll call Ron overdosed this past Monday (three days ago). It was most likely intentional, but since he left no note, no one can be sure.

Ron was a stereotypical drifter in many ways, with lots of holes in a bio that few even cared enough to swallow in the spoonfuls he fed it out: in the last two months he lived in three different places, all temporary. Prior to that there were stories of New Orleans and Orlando, neither of which really worked out well, I've heard. He had access to at least a modicum of health care, as there were HIV meds in his bag otherwise filled with Xanax, Oxycontin and other meds for other purposes. All prescriptions were current.

His last 72 hours were spent with a fellow co-worker (a newbie) on whom he seems to have had a crush. They ate and watched DVDs together: hung out. The extent to which the crush was consummated has not been discussed, though the newbie (who is bisexual) had a girl over for a while on Sunday evening, until the sheer chaos of Ron's ensuing scene, fed steadily by pills and booze, caused her to leave. The newbie then pulled him from the bathroom, lifted him up and carried him to bed, where he was found dead about 14 hours later.

Sunday was, I've been told, the anniversary of his twin brother's suicide. He evidently had discussed its approach with some people who knew him better than I with enormous apprehension. Why none of these people chose to concern themselves with him on Sunday will forever remain a mystery and spot of festering guilt on many shoulders. Had I known, I'd have at least made an effort at outreach. But I had no idea.

I don't engage in grave-pissing, so I'll just say that I never trusted him and leave it at that. Aside from a workplace camaraderie, we were very casually acquainted by mutual choice.

But his decision (if, indeed, that's what it was) to end it all in the home of the newbie, who sincerely tried to help him despite of (rather than because of) an unrequited sexual tension means that all my true sympathy lies with him, not Ron, the guy who'd had enough. This experience will scar him for life.

When one of the "first-string" bartenders heard the news, he got very angry: this is, evidently, the fourth such OD/suicide to have infested his life this year. When you ask someone in FtL how he's doing on any particular day, the most likely response will be "Just another day in paradise."

 

[pain4anangel]

That reminds me of when I lived in Seattle. one morning there was a gal ready to jump off the bridge on hiway 5 between Lake Union and Portage Bay. It was rush hour and people were pissed that she was holding up traffic, so they were telling her to jump as they drove by. Cops finally closed the roads down because it was getting so bad. She finally jumped after a couple of hours but she survived.

Alot of people were upset that she caused the mass disruption and they were talking about it for weeks after. She wanted some attention and she got it, is what alot of people felt.

I think she had a bad breakup. I have had a few of those. Haven't we all? Hopefully she got her shit together after that.... If someone really wants to kill themselves, they usually succeed.

People are sick, selfish a**holes. I've read too many stories about people who were going to jump and the onlookers egg them on. It's just callous.

And if someone wants to kill themselves, they will try. It doesn't not mean they will usually succeed. Read my first post in this thread. It's not as easy as it appears to be to off yourself (with the majority of common methods).

 

[AlteredEgo]

.... If someone really wants to kill themselves, they usually succeed.

Statistically speaking, this is not true. At least not in one attempt. Women specifically are only about 50% likely succeed, I read. Men are about 85% more likely to succeed. To me, that's more like "sometimes succeed" than "usually succeed".

 

[simbasa12]

People are sick, selfish a**holes. I've read too many stories about people who were going to jump and the onlookers egg them on. It's just callous.

And if someone wants to kill themselves, they will try. It doesn't not mean they will usually succeed. Read my first post in this thread. It's not as easy as it appears to be to off yourself (with the majority of common methods).

I agree about callous people... most people suck as far as I am concerned. But I feel that alot of people who try to commit suicide and fail really didn't want to but want an intervention. I can understand both sides of the Seattle story because she could have picked anywhere else but that busy spot if she really wanted to go through with it. On the other hand, she did jump. Not condoning assholes telling her to jump.

I hate to see young people throw away their lives before they have a chance to live...but perhaps some people are just not meant to live. Natural Selection? I don't know. I tend to look at life in a clinical way. If someone REALLY wants to die, they will end it. If not, there is always help and people who care.

 

[pain4anangel]

If someone REALLY wants to die, they will end it. If not, there is always help and people who care.

I beg to differ on all three of those accounts, but that's just my opinion.

 

[arkfarmbear]

I'm jumping in here to add my two cents worth. If a prior post has already provided what I am adding, sorry.
On an episode of Extreme Home Makeover the lady receiving the makeover summed up how many of us feel sometime in our lives.
She said bad things had been occurring for so many years that she simply concluded that good things happen to other people, therefore, she wasn't surprised when another bad event took place. That was her fate and she was resigned to it. That was how she was able to survive. It was her coping mechanism.
As far as suicide is concerned I have mixed feelings. We are often told that if we end our lives at our own hands we are being selfish with no regard for those we left behind.
I believe it is even more selfish of other people to lay that guilt trip on a person who feels it is the only solution out of misery. Aren't those people even more selfish? No one can ever know how another person feels. It is patronizing and s-o-o-o- very wrong. They can't know! Again, aren't those who guilt us into continuiing to live for their sake even more selfish? My belief is "yes"!

 

[B_dxjnorto]

As long as you only take yourself out, it is a genuine choice. But an irrevocable one.

 

[HellsKitchenmanNYC]

As long as you only take yourself out, it is a genuine choice. But an irrevocable one.

That's true but if ONLY there was a way to help someone suicidal that there can be a brighter day, that things can change. Unfort. it's not true that you can always do that. I know people that have killed temselves, some relatives....if only we could have made them realize there is a brighter day and that things can change...I'm glad I'm not in this position even tho there have been times when I've been more than depressed. I unfort. (one example) lost a cousin who shot his head off in the bathroom. Everyone knew he was depressed but no one and no analysis could reach him. It was so sad and then his wife and child had to come home and find that so that's a diff nightmare. Talk to people....try to somehow get in there and let them know it can get better!