Is the bible hate speech?

[EllieP]

My folks said the same. It was a total cop-out on their part.

Another favorite when they couldn't answer my questions was to say it was a mystery or "we don't know god's will."

I became good friends with a Catholic priest once. Yes, strange I know, but given my Mum's aversion to Catholics it was only natural that I did it. He was often in "civilian mode" when we'd chat because he knew I would never appreciate counseling from him.

But I asked him once how a celibate single man could counsel couples with marital problems. He thought for a good long while and finally said "the Catholic church believes in miracles, I guess."

 

[chrysler fanatic]

It was not satire. I think there should be a law barring children from religious education until age 18. The burden of this law would be on adults--parents, religious educators and clergy. You would not be prosecuted if you did not violate the law.

It didn't work for you, did it? By your own admission you were a violent man given to brutality who called himself a Christian but didn't really believe it. Am I wrong to say this was the result of your religious upbringing?

Yes. You would be wrong to say that. I'm not sure what you mean that it didn't work for me. I don't understand. I called myself a Christian starting at about age 17. As a kid I never gave it much thought, and my parents lnever gave me a hard time about it.

 

[chrysler fanatic]

Since you claim to know the Bible and bring up the Westboro fanatics:

• I know you understand that the Westboro Baptists' demonstrated what is written in the Bible.
• I know you understand that the Old Testament states clearly that homosexual sex is an abomination to your god Yahweh.
• I know you understand that the OT states clearly that the punishment for homosexual sex is the death penalty.
• I know you know that Jesus said not the smallest letter of the old law will pass away--that he did not refute but endorsed it.

What perplexes me is how you can say the Westboro Baptists' demonstrations are incongruous with the teachings of Christ when they are exactly his teachings. Remember that your theology teaches that the father and son are one, that Christ is his father Yahweh incarnate on Earth. If you are Christian this is a basic precept of your faith.

My conclusion is that you are either delusional, ignorant of the word of your god, have decided on your own what you will and will not choose to accept from the Bible, or a combination of all three.

How you can deny the gospels are full of hate speech defies the very print on the pages of the holy book you claim to be the word of your god.

As for the gospels changing you for the better, I leave you with a little Sam Harris.

Well, I just disagree with you. The way you are baffled by my understanding of scripture is the way I am baffled by yours. We both read the scriptures, but are led different ways by them.

 

[halcyondays]

Well, I just disagree with you. The way you are baffled by my understanding of scripture is the way I am baffled by yours. We both read the scriptures, but are led different ways by them.

I'm not led by your scriptures at all. And I'm no longer perplexed by your take on the Bible. It's clear that you simply ignore what's written in the text.

 

[halcyondays]

Yes. You would be wrong to say that. I'm not sure what you mean that it didn't work for me.

I meant that a Christian upbringing didn't work for you, leaving you angry, violent and confused.

 

[breeze]

Halcyondays

Just to lighten things up for a moment.
Do you know anything about this scientific adventure?

I wrote about it before. The russians had a space mission tracked by their agency
and NASA. Their spaceship entered an orange cloud and reported 7 giant what appeared
to be angels inside.

This was about 20 years ago.
Do scientists engage in pranks of this sort ? Ever ? Cold fusion not withstanding which
wasn't a prank.
But more to the point have any members involved recanted their
story or admitted it was a hoax ? And if not what is the motive behind all of this.

 

[AVx22]

No, it's not. Manipulation of the text is.

 

[halcyondays]

Halcyondays

Just to lighten things up for a moment.
Do you know anything about this scientific adventure?

I wrote about it before. The russians had a space mission tracked by their agency
and NASA. Their spaceship entered an orange cloud and reported 7 giant what appeared
to be angels inside.

This was about 20 years ago.
Do scientists engage in pranks of this sort ? Ever ? Cold fusion not withstanding which
wasn't a prank.
But more to the point have any members involved recanted their
story or admitted it was a hoax ? And if not what is the motive behind all of this.

Never heard of it before today.

 

[Brodie888]

There are many parts in the bible directed towards ensuring the propagation of Christianity.

The bible was written and collated during a time of high mortality (child birth, disease, infection etc), life expectancy was much lower.

With that in mind, everything that reduced the numbers/chances of new Christians being born or retained was deemed a sin.

Is that hate speech? I don't think so. Much like all the other religious texts, the flaw is not so much the words as it is the people who choose to use them in a way that suits their own agenda.

 

[185248]

If there is a god, or will be a god or was a god is beside the point.

The bible, or any other religious text was written by humans. Acted upon by humans and used by humans for human purpose.

To either Help, or Hate fellow humans.

I myself don't know if there is a god or is not a god. Science is clever, yet science is just scratching the surface, to which, science can't explain why ice is slippery.

Religion does not have all the answers either on Spirituality.

Personally speaking I have always felt a strong connection from a very young age. This was before I knew anything about religion or science.

A religious teacher would probably say it's your connection to god, a science person might say, it's your connection to evolution and instinct.

I can't say either is right or wrong, cause neither was there before it all started.

 

[hypolimnas]

The Bible is a mirror of humanity including its inhumanity. You can find what you want in it. It contains selected gems of literature, history, philosophy, ethics, consolation and inspiration. It was not intended to be read literally which is a problem in US puritanical "Christianity".

Coming out of the closet is actually metaphorically very close to being reborn - to be unconstrained by the circumstances of one's birth, poverty, gender or lineage and to live a good life in a like minded community can be seen as part of teachings in the Bible.

Hate speech may be there but so is forgiveness, tolerance, consolation, compassion, anti-violence, and hope. When scholarship and reading other faith literature are considered in context then it can be a book of love and beauty. The final book was written by someone with mental health or drug issues.

We had a copy at home which also had the most amazing large drawing of a naked Jesus on the cross, he was quite hot actually - just a couple of small shadows in the wrong places.

Combined with the erotic imagination of Song of Solomon, repeated warnings not to lust after women, commitment to love our fellow man with emphasis on compassion and forgiveness - it did provide something of a guide to live successfully from my own point of view.

One of the problems with the Bible is that many "Christians" have never read intelligently or diligently, and have never studied its authors, history and cultural context. It's no wonder they have never found the good in it to improve their understanding of liberty, fraternity, and equality for a better shared future.

Many "followers" of the Bible have no understanding of the relationship between the Bible and Christian Socialist thinking which is the basis for many of the ideals in global currency today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism

 

[Beedie Tijii]

Halcyondays

Just to lighten things up for a moment.
Do you know anything about this scientific adventure?

I wrote about it before. The russians had a space mission tracked by their agency
and NASA. Their spaceship entered an orange cloud and reported 7 giant what appeared
to be angels inside.

This was about 20 years ago.
Do scientists engage in pranks of this sort ? Ever ? Cold fusion not withstanding which
wasn't a prank.
But more to the point have any members involved recanted their
story or admitted it was a hoax ? And if not what is the motive behind all of this.

I just looked this up.

It looks like this story probably originated from a fake satirical newspaper.

Don't believe everything you read, especially when it concerns sightings of mythological creatures.

 

[breeze]

I just looked this up.

It looks like this story probably originated from a fake satirical newspaper.

Don't believe everything you read, especially when it concerns sightings of mythological creatures.

That is possible i don't want to spent too much time on this. But the details are very specific
and there are a lot of references regarding this event which would mean a lot of sloppy
investigating on a lot of sources. The name of the ship and cosmonauts are known.
Only one of the cosmonauts had to go on record to discredit the entire story which
i think one would have done by now.{ and make it go away }

 

[halcyondays]

Don't believe everything you read, especially when it concerns sightings of mythological creatures.

CG Jung's Flying Saucers; A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky pretty much nails it for me.

Believers of old time religious myths saw or placed their deities in the heavens--which many still call Heaven. Jesus is supposed to be out there in space somewhere. So is Mary. So is Mohammed. Bodily. The Pearly Gates are always drawn in the clouds, etc.

When modern science came along and began exploding those stories a new myth was created: extraterrestrials so far in advance of us they might as well be gods. Maybe they will save us. That's the new myth.

Humans still look to the heavens for salvation when it's in our own hands.

 

[breeze]

CG Jung's Flying Saucers; A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky pretty much nails it for me.

Believers of old time religious myths saw or placed their deities in the heavens--which many still call Heaven. Jesus is supposed to be out there in space somewhere. So is Mary. So is Mohammed. Bodily. The Pearly Gates are always drawn in the clouds, etc.

When modern science came along and began exploding those stories a new myth was created: extraterrestrials so far in advance of us they might as well be gods. Maybe they will save us. That's the new myth.

Humans still look to the heavens for salvation when it's in our own hands.

Carl Jung ? Have you read memories , dreams and reflections. His whole life was
a supernatural experience. He said he a spent a day with his wife in paris.? After she had passed
away and on and on and on.

UFOs are a different animal. When they were first reported the CIA commissioned several
reports from Cal Tech and others. They all concluded that UFOS weren't flying saucers.
And project bluebook basically explained every sighting. There aren't any from credible studies i know
of that conclude UFOS are flying saucers.
.

 

[halcyondays]

Carl Jung ? Have you read memories , dreams and reflections. His whole life was
a supernatural experience. He said he a spent a day with his wife in paris.? After she had passed
away and on and on and on.

UFOs are a different animal. When they were first reported the CIA commissioned several
reports from Cal Tech and others. They all concluded that UFOS weren't flying saucers.
And project bluebook basically explained every sighting. There aren't any from credible studies i know
of that conclude UFOS are flying saucers.
.

It's been a few decades but yeah I read Jung's autobiography. I read his entire collected works.

I think saucers were popularized in science fiction and comics then movies like The Day the Earth Stood Still.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

The bible is treated by a lot of Christians like that long user agreement when you register with a website. You don't really read it all; you just scroll down to the bottom and click agree.

Maybe things would be different if they read it as a whole, as I did, and not pick and choose verses out of context to shore up a reason to discriminate against someone.

Great analogy!


People love to pick and choose with The Bible. When somebody wants to gain or maintain power and control over a large number of people, the two most effective methods are Fear and Beliefs, and select passages from The Bible can often be used for that purpose

 

[185248]

It's been a few decades but yeah I read Jung's autobiography. I read his entire collected works.

I think saucers were popularized in science fiction and comics then movies like The Day the Earth Stood Still.

One of my favourite movies ..

The book of science is also filled with humankinds horrors and good doing, no use knit picking. Humankind uses science, it's invention and creation to do what it wishes. Is it ok for the book of science to use a religious book to blame for the worlds ills? Does the book of religion blame the book of science?

It can be said science says it's inventions are used for the greater good. Yet, it depends on what side you are on which is the greater good. There have been some scientific discoveries not attached to any religious or spiritual belief as being good for the prosperity of humankind, yet totally destructive to it. There is a negative, and a positive to most everything. Yes sometimes you have to dig for the positive, yet not many wish to dig for the negatives.

There is a saying, "Anything is possible". Maybe not back then, in the present but maybe if we don't run out of time, in the future.

Why is it that something that can not be proven or disproven now, it may be sometime in the future be found to be true or false.

We have just started to explore our own solar system. We know very little about it. We can't even peer past Pluto. Yet, there seems to be a body out there with enough mass (larger than Pluto) to change the tack of smaller bodies. Science is not sure that we may have a planet orbiting in our system we have not discovered yet. The scientific world is still out on the vote for that one also.

It's all theory. Until it's proven one way or another conclusively and without question.

Spirituality existed long before science. It could be said that it is the Father or Mother of science Humankind will continue trying to find connection of why we exist and what is our place in the Universe. So far, we have just barely scratched the surface. So far, there is no convincing argument or theory from either side. From my standpoint anyway.

The book of life is littered with good and bad from science and religion. Just do not confuse it with the "spirit" of mankind to explore the truth to both questions for answers. Or those who feel a connection to something which bypasses argument.

 

[alcor972]

She told me that my faith was weak.

Well, it got weaker.

She always told me I was too young to understand. At 45 I still consider myself too young to understand.

But if you really want some messed up sex scenes there ain't nothing like the old testament. Those people were wicked! But they were people of god.

it was a delightful reading...
lol...

I became good friends with a Catholic priest once. Yes, strange I know, but given my Mum's aversion to Catholics it was only natural that I did it.

lol!

 

[alcor972]

The book of science is also filled with humankinds horrors

yes and yes!