Is the GOP in collapse or are they being true patriots regarding the debt ceiling?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by midlifebear, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. midlifebear

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    This is an easy one.

    1: Is the GOP so divided they are willing to ruin the country's economy because they (seemingly) refuse to agree to any compromise to raise the national debt ceiling?

    Or:

    2. Is the GOP standing proud as a solid entity holding the line, risking the potential of MOODY's prediction by not agreeing to a debt ceiling by August 2nd that such action will cause the US Dollar to collapse in the world economy?

    Or;

    3..I don't care.

    Option 4: I hope the Minnesota Twins win the World Series, despite no one might be able to drink beer at home games.
     
    #1 midlifebear, Jul 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  2. D_Percy_Prettywillie

    D_Percy_Prettywillie Account Disabled

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    I think, either way, regardless of what their actual status is, the GOP in six months will claim what is happening now and whatever that leads to is ultimately what they said would happen and that it was a part of their plan all along. "GOP: Right from the start." They're extremely talented when it comes to interpreting reality in such a way as to make their own agenda seem not only necessary but effective.





    JSZ
     
  3. Mensch1351

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    It was pretty obvious in the 2010 election PRIMARIES that the GOP was in freefall with the rise of the TeaParty. At this point they just have too many bases to satisfy so that their stances on anything tend to run contrary to their own principles!! They are becoming (tongue in cheek as I write this) the party of hypocrits! I LOVE how they go on and on and on about how "The American people..........." -- but when the polls show the "people" against their principles or convictions -- well......just conveniently ignore an 80% statistic!!! All this is going to come back and bite them in the ass. It's why they can't quite find a good candidate to beat an obviously "beatable" President (who in their words is the most incompetent person to ever occupy the office!) Hmmmmmm!
     
  4. umami_tsunami

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    Justsome Zombie is on the right track. Republicans know they cannot allow the treasury to default (and have already said as much). They are not even going to get really significant budget cuts in the deal either, so they will work even harder to pin the deficit to Obama and blame him for the need to increase the debt. They will play the martyrs and say they had no choice. They are trying to save America, the Flag and Apple Pie from the commie pinko, homo-loving, welfare-giving muslims who are coming to take your guns away! They had no choice but to cave into Obama's demands to continue bankrupting the USA! It's the only weak sauce card they have left to play.

    The basic financial equation of cost and revenue combined with the ever growing division of class has finally gotten so obvious, even the stoopidest red-neck, bible-punching, brownskin-hating, gun loving, sister-diddler isn't buying the bullshit. Supply side economics is getting exposed as the rigged game it is and it's advocates will continue to be marginalized.
     
  5. OzCock2009

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    I believe that the GOP is trying to keep the economy and budget in a constant state of emergency and turmoil. Why? Because Only in an absolutely dire, emergency situation would anyone give up their entitlements and that, of course, is one of the top priorities of the GOP whether written or unwritten. Consider for example your average 70 year old on a pension, Medicare and SS. As they're 70, they've been around for a few wars, a few recessions, at least one energy crisis. They probably know a bit about personal sacrifice for the common good. They're probably willing to make a sacrifice in their SS or Medicare if the country is in dire financial straits. So in order for people to allow the govt to make those cuts, it is in the best interest of the GOP to create and maintain an unstable economy.
     
  6. TomCat84

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    "This may bring my presidency down, but I will not yield on this."
     
  7. D_Percy_Prettywillie

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    I'm inclined to agree with the above poster... though I don't think that behavior is limited specifically to the GOP. Do they employ the politics of crisis more transparently? I think they do but I also think they're better at it. When the GOP makes a case for something it gets done because the message is out there that it is absolutely imperative and that the alternative will lead directly to the fall of civilization as we know it. The country gets on board with their line of thinking because they are so skilled at crafting and then sticking to a message without any form of equivocation at all whatsoever (i.e. the war in Iraq, the war on terror, the necessity of curtailing certain personal liberties via the Patriot Act and so on.)

    Whether I agree with any of their policies or not is sort of irrelevant in the context of this conversation; the one thing they do very well is make their case. The DNC on the other hand? They employee "This is good, common, reasonable sense" logic which is forever being compromised and "improved" upon leaving people (at least me) with the sense they're open to trying a whole host of things in the interest of finding a solution...though, thanks to government being what it is, in the least expeditious way possible.

    Both parties need our support. To get our support we need to feel they're necessary and relevant. To be necessary and relevant there has to be some sort of crisis or emergency for them to fix. Each party picks something to focus on and then advocates their solution as the one that will work the best. Politics in the United States is no longer about the answer to a question- in my mind it's a debate over the question itself.





    JSZ
     
  8. midlifebear

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    Just for the record: I'm now 66 years old and I don't receive Medicare, Medicaid, or get a Social Security check, even though I'm eligible. I prefer that those who need it more than me receive the money. How many "retired" rich members of the GOP feel the same way? Not many, from those I've talked with. And I'm not a Democrat. I've avidly non-partisan.
     
  9. umami_tsunami

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    Of course, the Rethuglicans want to keep things grim. The irony is that they would get so much more credit and support from rational voters if they did something cooperative and constructive rather than purely contrary. By pandering to the far right, they are alienating the middle and politically banishing themselves. The bigoted, regressive, but highly vociferous minority will love them, though.

    I propose we give them Texas. We'll get all the religious bigots, abortion bombers and haters from all over the country in there, then put a big ass wall up around it. Of course, we get the Mexicans. And Austin. They can have rest, rename it JesusLand or some shit and have no government, just guns, high fructose corn syrup and prayers and free market everything.
     
  10. houtx48

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    Looks like the Gop is trying to use this as a political football and the teabaggers are throwing a wrench into the machinery at every turn. It may workout for them though.
     
  11. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    It's nothing but political theatre... at least for most members of the GOP. Since they have embraced the kookiness of the parTEA, it has been difficult for them to manipulate this particular game to their benefit. Like so many times before, they provided a bunch of tough soundbites with the intention of forcing Obama to make a move so they could go against it or ask for more. It's worked for them in the past, but with something like the debt ceiling they were certainly not prepared to back up their own demands. $4 Trillion in cuts? Really? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the GOP were just bluffing here. And once Obama "embraced" this idea and told them to start making suggestions, that's when all of the backpedaling started.

    None of this would be going on right now if the President was allowed to simply raise the debt ceiling back in April when he proposed doing so without any other legislation, taxes or spending cuts attached to it, just like it has been done more than 70 times before since JFK and seven times under the Bush Administration. But hey, why should any politician let common sense stop them from yet another chance to dishonestly grandstand.... especially since their main objective is to make Obama a one-term president more than anything else?
     
  12. umami_tsunami

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    The party of the privileged has spent 3 long decades soliciting the stoopids using the religious right as their pimps. That strategy has come home to roost. They have succeeded in duping mouth breathers into voting against their own interests and now the extreme and ignorant fringe of that group is calling the shots. Their infighting and inability to make a cogent case for their policies is collapsing around them. I agree that historically the Repubs have been able to shout their message over the rest, but this schism will undo them for a long time.

    Debt talks: Republicans back themselves into a corner. - By David Weigel - Slate Magazine

    Obama and the Dems are look positively grown up and smart next to them.
     
  13. hot-rod

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    I said before Obama was elected that the Republicans were finished and in decline. They are always against the people. Obama must and will win just to give the Supreme Court back to the left with a new justice or two in the next term.
     
  14. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    They are truly insane and the party can't even agree on anything. Hopefully this leads to them shanking each other and DC burning down.
     
  15. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    They are truly insane and the party can't even agree on anything. Hopefully this leads to them shanking each other and DC burning down.
     
  16. oralslut464

    oralslut464 New Member

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    I agree with the GOP. We dont need more taxes and the debt ceiling should stay where it is. There is enough revenue coming in to pay want we need to pay. Entitlments should GO, pet projects should GO. If they want to raise the debt ceiliing things should be cut in the same exact amount. The GOP has the right idea.
     
  17. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    You have no idea what you're talking about, do you? The same idiots who claimed Obamacare was going to kill their grandparents now want to force a government shutdown which will stop money going to those that need it.

    So fucking dumb, can I punch you? Please?
     
  18. thebigmac89

    thebigmac89 New Member

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    *facepalm*
     
  19. Industrialsize

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    You clearly don't understand what the debt ceiling is. It is not being raised so Congress can spend more. It needs to be raised so the US government can meet the obligations for spending that congress has ALREADY voted for and approved. Even if, from this day forward, the congress never spent another penny, the debt ceiling would need to be raised to meet our country's current obligations.
     
  20. thebigmac89

    thebigmac89 New Member

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    I think what he (oralslut) was getting at is that in a nutshell he explained how you can cut the amount of obligations you have so you dont necessarily have to borrow past the 14.3 trillion dollar limit with the USA's credit card (so to speak). Will It have to be raised in the future? We dont know yet. However, theres so much they can cut so we dont HAVE to raise it NOW.

    Industrialsize: I think he failed to moreso elaborate what he was talking about.

    MercyfulFate: Resorting to flame-wars and blunt insults isnt getting you anywhere. Sorry to lay the truth on you.


    oh by the way. The government takes in more than enough money in the month of August to cover its obligations to medicare/medicaid and social security for that month. So to say it would stop sending checks and care to people is fundamentally false. Obama can still prioritize where the money goes. And with how tightly Obama is aligned to providing social safety nets...do you really think he's going to deny those obligations?
     
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