Is the GOP in collapse or are they being true patriots regarding the debt ceiling?

parr

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Sure , raise the debt ceiling give the crybabies what they want.:rolleyes:
 

B_VinylBoy

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I think what he (oralslut) was getting at is that in a nutshell he explained how you can cut the amount of obligations you have so you dont necessarily have to borrow past the 14.3 trillion dollar limit with the USA's credit card (so to speak). Will It have to be raised in the future? We dont know yet. However, theres so much they can cut so we dont HAVE to raise it NOW.

I think most people understood that. However, there are less destructive ways to address the issue of reducing the deficit. It's going to take a combination of raising taxes and necessary spending cuts to do it, and there are plenty of places where we can start before "entitlements" become a part of the equation.
 

Mensch1351

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Of course, the Rethuglicans want to keep things grim. The irony is that they would get so much more credit and support from rational voters if they did something cooperative and constructive rather than purely contrary. By pandering to the far right, they are alienating the middle and politically banishing themselves. The bigoted, regressive, but highly vociferous minority will love them, though.

YEP!! One of these days the actually sane Republicans left are going to understand that their party needs to come up with a realistic plan that voters can hold on to. The more they simply pander for votes -- the more the Independents come to realize that all that TALK is really a smokescreen for underlying cultural agenda. Let's see: 2010 --- "Where's the JOBS, Pres. Obama?" And now that they have the House and could actually DO something ---- let's stand in the way of Wall Street Reform and work towards continuing the tax cuts for the (oh yeah) "job makers" who've done nothing to CREATE jobs with their tax cuts!! Where's the JOBS Mr. Boehner????????????????????
 

Mensch1351

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You clearly don't understand what the debt ceiling is. It is not being raised so Congress can spend more. It needs to be raised so the US government can meet the obligations for spending that congress has ALREADY voted for and approved. Even if, from this day forward, the congress never spent another penny, the debt ceiling would need to be raised to meet our country's current obligations.

YOU are living proof that I have hope that there really really ARE people out there listening and understanding what is truly going on!!! thank you!
 

B_VinylBoy

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YEP!! One of these days the actually sane Republicans left are going to understand that their party needs to come up with a realistic plan that voters can hold on to. The more they simply pander for votes -- the more the Independents come to realize that all that TALK is really a smokescreen for underlying cultural agenda. Let's see: 2010 --- "Where's the JOBS, Pres. Obama?" And now that they have the House and could actually DO something ---- let's stand in the way of Wall Street Reform and work towards continuing the tax cuts for the (oh yeah) "job makers" who've done nothing to CREATE jobs with their tax cuts!! Where's the JOBS Mr. Boehner????????????????????

They have no plan for creating jobs. Most of the GOP candidates who ran for House & Senate seats in 2010 ran on the platform of creating jobs. But since Boehner has assumed the position of Speaker there has not been a single job creation bill voted on in the House. At the same time, we see the GOP proposing legislation that targets abortion, gay marriage, voting rights, union rights, Immigration and banning Sharia Law. Not only are they doing nothing but pandering for votes, they're selecting issues to further divide our electorate on many different social levels.

As for the debt ceiling issue, I think most people realize the real problem at this point surround the blindly ideological nonsense of the parTEA and their spokespuppet Eric Cantor disingenuously grandstanding on the issue of taxes. He claims to be "so against" tax hikes even though he himself voted for one back in 2009, and also claims that raising taxes during a recession would be problematic... even though Reagan did that very thing in his first term. If someone would just shove a pair of socks in his mouth, perhaps the rest of the grownups in the room can resolve this issue.
 

MercyfulFate

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I think what he (oralslut) was getting at is that in a nutshell he explained how you can cut the amount of obligations you have so you dont necessarily have to borrow past the 14.3 trillion dollar limit with the USA's credit card (so to speak). Will It have to be raised in the future? We dont know yet. However, theres so much they can cut so we dont HAVE to raise it NOW.

Industrialsize: I think he failed to moreso elaborate what he was talking about.

MercyfulFate: Resorting to flame-wars and blunt insults isnt getting you anywhere. Sorry to lay the truth on you.


oh by the way. The government takes in more than enough money in the month of August to cover its obligations to medicare/medicaid and social security for that month. So to say it would stop sending checks and care to people is fundamentally false. Obama can still prioritize where the money goes. And with how tightly Obama is aligned to providing social safety nets...do you really think he's going to deny those obligations?

Look over here. Does it look like I give a shit? Didn't think so.
 

Jason

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From the other side of the pond - the UK - it seems that the USA needs to unpackage two different problems and deal with each of them:

* the present crisis can be resolved only by raising the debt ceiling. The crisis relates to past and current tax and spend so the political argument is akin to crying over spilt milk. Either the USA raises the debt ceiling or there will be a catastrophe. The world assumes the USA will raise the debt ceiling, but the brinkmanship risks unsettling markets which are already volatile. The disaster for the USA would be a sudden increase in bond yields, and all the time politicians can't agree this is a real risk. Agreement is needed NOW, and this should be more important to all parties than any possible political gain.

* the USA needs a proper national discussion about how it plans to get its budget to balance in the future. Probably this is a mix of increased tax and reduced spend, but whatever solution is slected it needs popular support, as well as a cross-party consensus. In a European context where public spending is much higher than in the USA there is a level of consensus that most of the rebalancing must come from cutting expenditure - but the USA does have more options because public expenditure is lower to start with. That said it doesn't have as many options as some of the discussion would suggest. The European experience is that increasing taxes on the rich or on companies backfires - the tax increase that works is one on everyone (either an increase in basic rate income tax or an increase in sales tax). The viable options are either sharp expenditure cuts, or sharp increases in tax that will hit everyone - or a mix of both. In either case people will feel poorer.
 

BobLeeSwagger

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This is an easy one.

1: Is the GOP so divided they are willing to ruin the country's economy because they (seemingly) refuse to agree to any compromise to raise the national debt ceiling?

Or:

2. Is the GOP standing proud as a solid entity holding the line, risking the potential of MOODY's prediction by not agreeing to a debt ceiling by August 2nd that such action will cause the US Dollar to collapse in the world economy?

Or;

3..I don't care.

Option 4: I hope the Minnesota Twins win the World Series, despite no one might be able to drink beer at home games.

None of the above. The GOP is using the only leverage they have: that they control the House of Representatives. Their only opportunity to accomplish anything from their agenda is through bills that Congress MUST pass. There aren't very many such bills, mostly budget bills. But raising the debt ceiling is one of them. They're doing what they have to avoid looking like their approving of something that Obama wants.

Unfortunately, they've become hostage to their own constituents. The price of getting elected by angry, irrational voters is that you have to claim to want what they want. And when you do the more sensible thing, they want to punish you for it.

Yet again, voters get the leaders they deserve. That doesn't reflect well on the people.
 

dandelion

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Id agree with Jason: This issue has percolated into the news in the UK because of the US threats to default on their debts. The lesson of confidence crises in various countries in europe is to make sure you never get into a position where confidence can be questioned. The US has created another potential world disaster and is busily trying to make it worse. From this side of the pond they look like total lunatics.

I dont agree that the correct way out of this is tax cuts. Or at least, taxes have to be taken from those who have money.
 
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Just for the record: I'm now 66 years old and I don't receive Medicare, Medicaid, or get a Social Security check, even though I'm eligible. I prefer that those who need it more than me receive the money. How many "retired" rich members of the GOP feel the same way? Not many, from those I've talked with. And I'm not a Democrat. I've avidly non-partisan.
Sounds fair. :)

Tbh, I think the Republicans are right in saying the budget needs balancing...BUT, I find it unfathomable (and immoral?) that the removal of certain tax breaks for the wealthy is being blocked by the GOP - at the same time as suggesting a reduction in social security spending.

To balance the books probably requires tax increases as well as spending cuts (not just in social security, but across the board) - and possibly more devaluation to boost export competitiveness?

Also - there seems to be no choice but raise the debt ceiling temporarily to meet current spending commitments.

Just my view from across the pond, anyway! :D
 

FuzzyKen

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The current situation is total posturing and not even the GOP is stupid enough to think that they can get away without raising the debt ceiling. What is curious to me however is that the debt ceiling was raised under "King George II" without hesitation when it was his pet projects and we had Republicans in control of everything. Give us a bi-racial Democratic President, a Senate which is Democratically controlled and a number of GOP candidates that are of questionable competency and what do we have, a number of very loud extremists trying to blame the problems created by the spending of the previous Cheney Administration on big business and war on the current incumbent President. I personally do not love the guy because I think he's a total cowardly WUSS. At the same time I cannot blame the man for a mess that he inherited. I knew damn well that when he took office that if there had been some bi-partisan cooperation (which there hasn't) that it would take the entire first term to even begin to set the stage for recovery and that everything in the meanwhile would be reactionary patches.

I do believe that Barak Obama has failed completely. I however do not believe that his failure has been more in his total lack of courage to get up and tell the whole story to the American People. I understand that he is trying to be conciliatory to bring two warring sides together, but, he is dealing with the economic equivalent of terrorists in that these people are more interested in their party and money base than in their country. To me, and in my own opinion, if the ceiling is not raised and people do not start working together for solutions instead of fighting those who know the consequences in Congress and the Senate should be tried for TREASON. Our failure brings down not only the United States but will have a very heavy and long standing negative impact on the welfare of many people in many countries. This has the potential under worse circumstances to start a world war the likes of which has never been seen before costing the lives of millions of innocent people worldwide. Likely no, but it is possible and this needs to be remembered.
 
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LambHair McNeil

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Even people who are wrong sometimes have a good point buried underneath.

The 525-lb guy standing in your Big & Tall clothing department definitely needs to go on a diet. His long-term health prospects can't be all that good and he's undoubtedly suffering now. But you don't solve anything by trying to shove him into Size L pants today. Ain't gonna happen.

That's basically the stance of the majority of the tea party caucus. Their arguments about government spending needing to be put in line with revenues aren't stupid, but you don't get from here to there in a single day.

You might propose raising taxes (working out) to get us part of the way towards the answer, but we're also going to have to cut back on spending (diet - change how we eat) if we want to succeed.
 

Phil Ayesho

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The entire elected body of the GOP should be arrested and jailed in Gitmo for treason.

The nation is facing an economic crisis which could result in a decades long financial collapse.
Their only objective is defeating Obama's re-election, quite literally at any cost.
They know full well that government stimulus spending is Essential to any recovery... and they purposely oppose such spending to drive unemployment and foreclosures up, to erode the US economy and slow or reverse any possibility of recovery, for the express purpose of blaming the incumbent president and his party for failing to fix the economy.

This is tantamount to sabotage of the US economy for political and their private economic gain.
It is NOT representing the genuine interests of their constituents.... and therefore they are in violation of their oaths of office.

In a national crisis, you support the president and work to solve the problems.
Not one single economist supports the republican economic "strategy"- because it is demonstrably destroying what small recovery gains we had made, back when democrats controlled the house.

They are, at best, irresponsible and dangerously stupid... and at worst, actively in collusion to destroy the US economy, middle class, and labor unions.

Obama should invoke martial law and have them arrested and stripped of office.

Then launch massive DOJ and IRS investigations of the Kock brothers, and the GOP in general to determine the extent to which they have been bought by monied interests to sell out the interests of the nation.
 

Mensch1351

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Just another Obama theatric that will help guarantee that he's one-termer.

OK --- sooooooooo let's say Obama is NOT re-elected AND both the Senate and House end up in the Republican camp. Do you think "restoring" the full faith and credit of the American Government is going to "automatically" come back to us --- when the world itself is highly suspicious that the people who drove the car into the ditch in the first place have now been made head of the driver education program???

As the Republicans really rejoiced when Obama was first elected knowing full well the mess he was inheriting from Bush --- just what do you think the Republicans are going to propose doing to get us out of it (without starting a full scale revolution on the part of the American people!)?????
 

mmjr

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What govt. stimulus spending? Noone can find the 2 trillion already spent. The whole lot of them should be removed, but the American people are so apathetic it wont happen.