Is the GOP in collapse or are they being true patriots regarding the debt ceiling?

D_Percy_Prettywillie

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I don't know about you guys, but I can only be told the apocalypse is 10 minutes away so many times before I stop freaking out. It's not that I don't care or that I'm not vested in the outcome. I am. But two things have been made very, very apparent since the Bush years began (I would have been about 13 when he took office);

1.) In regards to the business of the nation the really important stuff I have no power over once I've voted. I entrust the people I send to Congress to do this for me and, after having voted several times now, I'm convinced that it doesn't really matter whether I send a democrat or a republican, the same night awaits them all. The gridlock won't budge and actually getting something done? Congress takes more vacations than... I really can't think of anybody I know that takes more vacations than Congress. So if Armageddon is coming because of this debt ceiling not being increased? Bring it on. There's nothing I can do about it as the idiots I sent to Congress apparently haven't caught the news lately.

2.) Even if I had the power to do anything about it (besides voting and rallying in front of a DMV or something) and I could solve this cataclysm, a new one would replace it next week. Seriously, my adrenal gland is on the verge of burning out and I'm in my early 20s! I can't handle this constant onslaught of my panic-now button.


So, all political posturing aside, I don't feel like either side "wins" this showdown at the OK Corral and no matter how much one side claims the other is evil, wrong, and playing a dangerous game, I'll have a hard time believing it. I'm not fed up with the surmounting problems this country faces. I'm fed up with the charade being enacted on television that either party is truly interested in solving anything when it couldn't be any more apparent that they aren't. It's a game of chicken being played with the psyche of the American people in the middle and it is an act that brings shame on both their houses.






JSZ
 

B_Hung Jon

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I don't know about you guys, but I can only be told the apocalypse is 10 minutes away so many times before I stop freaking out. It's not that I don't care or that I'm not vested in the outcome. I am. But two things have been made very, very apparent since the Bush years began (I would have been about 13 when he took office);

1.) In regards to the business of the nation the really important stuff I have no power over once I've voted. I entrust the people I send to Congress to do this for me and, after having voted several times now, I'm convinced that it doesn't really matter whether I send a democrat or a republican, the same night awaits them all. The gridlock won't budge and actually getting something done? Congress takes more vacations than... I really can't think of anybody I know that takes more vacations than Congress. So if Armageddon is coming because of this debt ceiling not being increased? Bring it on. There's nothing I can do about it as the idiots I sent to Congress apparently haven't caught the news lately.

2.) Even if I had the power to do anything about it (besides voting and rallying in front of a DMV or something) and I could solve this cataclysm, a new one would replace it next week. Seriously, my adrenal gland is on the verge of burning out and I'm in my early 20s! I can't handle this constant onslaught of my panic-now button.


So, all political posturing aside, I don't feel like either side "wins" this showdown at the OK Corral and no matter how much one side claims the other is evil, wrong, and playing a dangerous game, I'll have a hard time believing it. I'm not fed up with the surmounting problems this country faces. I'm fed up with the charade being enacted on television that either party is truly interested in solving anything when it couldn't be any more apparent that they aren't. It's a game of chicken being played with the psyche of the American people in the middle and it is an act that brings shame on both their houses.






JSZ


I agree with you completely. But at the same time people always say that because I think the system is rigged, I am a cynic. Many Americans believe in our political parties and how the Congress is elected. For my POV I don't think the system is legitimate, and never has been. It's a big show put on by the Demos and Repubs to make us feel as if we can really make an affect on how we're governed. I think local government has a better chance of being more responsive to the people but not the federal or even state structures. I don't think I'm a cynic but rather just being realistic.
 

dandelion

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I agree with you completely. But at the same time people always say that because I think the system is rigged, I am a cynic. Many Americans believe in our political parties and how the Congress is elected. For my POV I don't think the system is legitimate, and never has been. It's a big show put on by the Demos and Repubs to make us feel as if we can really make an affect on how we're governed. I think local government has a better chance of being more responsive to the people but not the federal or even state structures. I don't think I'm a cynic but rather just being realistic.

News flash from the UK. Vince cable says US government are a bunch of nutters. Those running the US are a bigger threat to the world economy than the current problems with debt in europe. I should explain, Vince cable is a British MP who was recently removed from his government ministerial job of investigating Rupert Murdoch's intended takeover of BskyB when he carelessly stated in public that he thought the guy was a crook. Following recent events, he has an increasing reputation as a good judge of character. And perhaps one for telling it how it is.
 

hypoc8

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I agree with you completely. But at the same time people always say that because I think the system is rigged, I am a cynic. Many Americans believe in our political parties and how the Congress is elected. For my POV I don't think the system is legitimate, and never has been. It's a big show put on by the Demos and Repubs to make us feel as if we can really make an affect on how we're governed. I think local government has a better chance of being more responsive to the people but not the federal or even state structures. I don't think I'm a cynic but rather just being realistic.

I'm beginning to think the same thing myself.
 

Redwyvre

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Nobody knows what to think of the GOP anymore. Seems like only a couple of wars ago the GOP came up with the idea to send every American about a hundred bucks in the mail. Now we have GOP candidates saying people shouldn't be concerned if the Federal government doesn't make a payment or two. They're not fit to be leaders. But then I'm beginning to think Americans have an emotional attachment to being misled. Germany went through something like this....
 

OCMuscleJock

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The GOP has been hijacked by it's own, extreme offshoot. This offshoot of the Republican party used God, hate and pandering to get in the high seats of the GOP and are now destroying it. The new republican party is NOT the same as it was yrs ago. Hell, even now they say Ronald Reagan would be too liberal for the GOP. Phil posted the best response on this thread...

How can Obama get anything done when they are more worried about destroying his presidency than helping our country and doing what is right? The GOP is pretty much setting grounds for a second term for him in office and making sure no one will trust the GOP. There will be a HUGE number of republicans voted out of office the next elections due to the lack of trust of the american people. The current party is digging their own graves on the political front and taking America down with it.
 

FuzzyKen

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OCMJ has this nailed. The GOP is by their actions is going into the territory of political suicide by only representing the viewpoint of a small extremist fringe even within their own party. Honest to God look at the extremist candidates. You have a fomer Alaska Governor who resigned her position leaving the State of Alaska in a total mess and with questions of using her office for personal gain. You have a religious extremist that graduated from Oral Roberts University who has made statements that no person with a supposed law degree from a legitimate and accepted school would accept. You have a Texas Governor who talks like he balanced his State Budget, but what he does not tell you is that he did it by simply cutting off all the City and County Governments forcing them to raise taxes and fees for services. It is true that he himself did not raise taxes, but because of him Texas is looking right now at unprecedented tax increases and I live in New Mexico within 100 miles of the Texas Border and have two El Paso television stations. Texas talks about taxes? Yep! Go to Texas and buy a $300,000 home. In California the property taxes on that home would be $3,750 plus city fees. In Canutillo Texas, a small town near El Paso that same home would cost you $10,000 per year! We have a fraud on this guy. Then there is the Pizza King. Yeah Right! I want to elect a man who proudly works as a CEO for a fast food emporium making one of the most unhealthy foods in the planet named after a leading organized crime figurehead. Then I get to look at his political record, except he doesn't have one. Then there is good 'ol Mit Romney. Romney is of the ultra conservative Mormon Faith, he is the Son of former Senator George Romney and has talked greatly about his Father's vast business sense. George Romney's business sense was well demonstrated and well documented. George Romney was CEO of a Company named American Motors. Remember American Motors?

I am a car buff, if you see the corporate decisions made by George Romney it is a miracle that AMC did not die long before it did. The only thing that AMC had that kept it going for many years was Jeep. AMC bought Jeep when Kaiser was floundering many decades ago. Chrysler Bought the tattered remains of AMC in the first years of the 1980's in order to get Jeep and dumped the rest.

In the past the GOP had statesmen. Ronald Reagan captured audiences with his convincing acting ability and his ability to convince the American people that the rich were a bunch of benevolent benefactors who if they gained even greater wealth and power were going to shower the American people with greater wealth and benefits for doing it. WOOPS! Sounded good, but it did not happen. Then there was our friend Richard Milhouse Nixon. Hey, I also attended Whittier College, and his records at Whittier were not as squeaky clean as they were painted. The man had his flaws. He had his good points, but the flaws were monumental.

The beginning of the destruction of the GOP started with the administration of Nixon. First there was V.P. Spiro Agnew who resigned in disgrace and was replaced by Gerald R. Ford. Ford was actually a pretty good guy, but his association with the impending doom of Nixon and his pardon of Nixons illegal transgressions ended his own political career. When Ronald Reagan took office you had Vice President George H.W. Bush as the V.P. The Reagan Presidency placed GHWB into the background because he was nothing more than a mealy mouthed bureaucrat who had at one time been head of the CIA. I will give that man at least one credit. He loved Christmas Shopping and would sneak out in a black Suburban and he did all of his own Christmas Holiday Shopping himself. I will give GHWB some credit as a human being. When GHWB was elected President the party stuck him with a total moron as Vice President and that was Danforth Quayle. Quayle in the eyes of anybody with common sense was an embarrassment to the doors of the White House. I do believe that GHWB would not have chosen Quayle as a running mate had he been gifted with the slightest concept of the man's ability not only to place his own foot in his mouth, but, his ability place the other one in there with it. GHWB like many of his party consistently screamed "no new taxes" and like many others within his party while it was a mantra they screamed it was not a reality they adhered to.
When within three weeks of a speech screaming no new taxes he signed and endorsed one of the largest sweeping tax increases in the history of the United States he effectively ended his own political career and gave the Presidency to the Democrats for the next eight years.

The Presidential Administration of George W. Bush is not a Presidency of which America can be proud in any manner. He was opinionated, arrogant, easily influenced by people playing to themselves and special interests and he was a man who had been bailed out of one scrape after another for most of his adult life. The GOP in GWB tried an experiment and it was a successful one with regards to one thing and that was the rewards of the wealthy and the stripping of everything from the poor and middle class. It was however not GWB who was the active one in doing this, it was instead Vice President Dick Cheney. GWB and his antics served as a cover for the brains and in this case the brains were in the head of the former head of Halliburton. The moment that this power came in numerous environmental laws went out the window and the damage done to the environment under "Fracking" which was a Cheney pet project may take decades to even start to compute.

There was a time I was loyal to the GOP, and I am not at this time a universal supporter of the Dems either.

The GOP is no longer representing the American People. They are representing business and industry at the expense of the American People. Taxation for the wealthiest ten percent of the American People is at one of the lowest levels in Unites States History while the poor and middle class are literally being taxed out of everything they own and the future of even their children is questionable. The religious right has ceased to be religion, church and helping mankind, it has simply become another corporation there for government handouts. The GOP, once a monument to fair play now functions totally on the "tabloid" mentality taking candidates away from issues and making it a mud slinging campaign covering the issues entirely.

One of the largest supporters of the GOP has been Rupert Murdoch and Fox News which has become one large 24-hour per day seven day per week infomercial. Rupert Murdoch does not support the GOP because of anything other than money. It is the GOP that makes Murdoch wealthier and wealthier. While the GOP takes high moral stands on thing trying to outlaw abortion, take away gay rights, criminalize gay sex, prevent and make birth control illegal by virtue of it's now extremist nature, multi-billion dollar supporter Murdoch is one of the largest producers of Pornography in the World and he, his son and Newscorp are at the beginning of long and lengthy investigations of criminal activity that has the potential to destroy Murdoch personally, Fox News and Newscorp completely.

If the Dems are smart (which would be a first there as well, they love masochism) they could literally bury the GOP for decades to come to the point that other parties would emerge and begin to balance things in a different way. Somehow if this were to happen I don't see offering the American people more choices and more ideas with regards to their elected representatives as being a bad thing.
 

B_nyvin

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The European experience is that increasing taxes on the rich or on companies backfires - the tax increase that works is one on everyone (either an increase in basic rate income tax or an increase in sales tax). The viable options are either sharp expenditure cuts, or sharp increases in tax that will hit everyone - or a mix of both. In either case people will feel poorer.

Clearly cutting oil subsides will not work in increasing revenue.

Why wouldn't revenue increases on just wealthy and corporations work? they're corrupt and would avoid it? so we just give up and let them keep their money? how would taxes ever increase? just keep giving them tax breaks forever?
 

FuzzyKen

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Clearly cutting oil subsides will not work in increasing revenue.

Why wouldn't revenue increases on just wealthy and corporations work? they're corrupt and would avoid it? so we just give up and let them keep their money? how would taxes ever increase? just keep giving them tax breaks forever?

The sad part is that the GOP Taxation plans are praised by people who do not understand that they personally will not benefit from them. A millionaire is no longer among the "ultra rich". To benefit from the GOP one has to be for example an individual worth not millions but billions of dollars. I can think of a Real Estate Mogul who will benefit, I can think of a Computer Software Genius in Washington State who will benefit, and mainly I can think of about 300 of America's top Corporations who will benefit. The rest of us well into seven figure incomes will pay more while these in the top 10-15% will pay even less.

It is true that with each passing year we become less and less intelligent. The information age as not taught us to do our homework and actual research, but instead to listen to instant news sources who print opinion as fact.

Fast food kids are too dumb to learn to operate a cash register. Instead they push keys with the menu written on it. Hey at this rate in another twenty years they won't be able to read either so the cash registers will then have pictures!

One of the most glaring examples of the dumbing of America is that the United States Military is now equipping all military vehicles with Automatic Transmissions because the kids going in now don't have any clue how to drive a stick shift!

Remember the kids not knowing how to operate a cash register or drive a stick shift vehicle are your future voters! Sad isn't it? Yes, GOP we certainly can afford to cut the budget for education, we need to do that so there will be enough dummies out there to continue to vote for the rich mans club.
 

TomCat84

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One of the most glaring examples of the dumbing of America is that the United States Military is now equipping all military vehicles with Automatic Transmissions because the kids going in now don't have any clue how to drive a stick shift!

I'll admit to not knowing how to drive a stick shift...:redface:
 

Mensch1351

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THIS is some of the craziest shit I have ever read!!

http://thinkprogress.org/

I heard that after the President asked people to call their representatives to express their concern we have a more "balanced" approach -- the House phone/webs crashed!! Good --- they keep saying that they're "listening" to the American people..................well -- they're gonna listen next November no matter how much money they spend to "hype" their lies! As a commentator on MSNBC said, "You know -- you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

By the way -- take a look on the above Website what's happening in Wisconsin! Did somebody say "one termer?"
 

Thedrewbert

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One thing I've never had explained to me on the GOP position with taxes.

The GOP position on taxes is that cutting taxes increases revenue.... right?

But the other GOP position on taxes is that cutting taxes helps to "starve the beast".... basically lower revenues force spending cuts.

But clearly, they can't BOTH be right.
 

B_jeepguy2

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Just another Obama theatric that will help guarantee that he's one-termer.

Obama is finished. The vast majority of the American population that is not on Wellfare/Medicaid want him gone. Most of the Gen Y kids who voted for Obama in droves back in 2008 and helped put him in office are out of college now and can't find jobs, other than waiting tables or enlisting in the military to go fight Mr. Bush's two wars that Obama promised to end, and yet another one that Obama has gotten the USA involved in. I doubt they will be voting for him in 2012.
 

Horrible

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I dont have a source for this to give credit to, but it sums up my 2c quite well.

"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.
The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.
The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."
 

B_jeepguy2

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I'll admit to not knowing how to drive a stick shift...:redface:

I know how to drive one because I grew up on a farm and all of dad's old 1960s vintage farm trucks had them. Most cars don't have them anymore and they shouldn't expect a kid who grew up in the suburbs and learned to drive on their mom's Honda Accord with an automatic to be able to drive an Army truck with a manual transmission and a two speed rear axle. It is not that the kids are stupid...they have just never driven one before.:rolleyes:
 
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b.c.

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Just another Obama theatric that will help guarantee that he's one-termer.

What's wrong with expecting the wealthy to shoulder their fair share of the burden? If they don't the middle class will continue to bear the brunt, on behalf of the wealthy and the poor... as we've always done.

But then again, the GOP just have to protect the rights of the wealthy to fly their prodigy on private jets to 10-thousand dollar summer camps, right??

The sad part is that the GOP Taxation plans are praised by people who do not understand that they personally will not benefit from them. A millionaire is no longer among the "ultra rich". To benefit from the GOP one has to be for example an individual worth not millions but billions of dollars. I can think of a Real Estate Mogul who will benefit, I can think of a Computer Software Genius in Washington State who will benefit, and mainly I can think of about 300 of America's top Corporations who will benefit. The rest of us well into seven figure incomes will pay more while these in the top 10-15% will pay even less.

It is true that with each passing year we become less and less intelligent. The information age as not taught us to do our homework and actual research, but instead to listen to instant news sources who print opinion as fact.

Fast food kids are too dumb to learn to operate a cash register. Instead they push keys with the menu written on it. Hey at this rate in another twenty years they won't be able to read either so the cash registers will then have pictures!

One of the most glaring examples of the dumbing of America is that the United States Military is now equipping all military vehicles with Automatic Transmissions because the kids going in now don't have any clue how to drive a stick shift!

Remember the kids not knowing how to operate a cash register or drive a stick shift vehicle are your future voters! Sad isn't it? Yes, GOP we certainly can afford to cut the budget for education, we need to do that so there will be enough dummies out there to continue to vote for the rich mans club.

Exactly. Many of the people who support the GOP's "cut spending but no revenues from the wealthy" plan are the very ones who'll be hurt by cuts to programs they themselves rely on. No matter though, because they think they're sticking it to some "ther guy".

Ignorance is bliss, as they say. No wonder the GOP kick "John Public" in the ass every chance they get.
 

OCMuscleJock

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Obama is finished. The vast majority of the American population that is not on Wellfare/Medicaid want him gone. Most of the Gen Y kids who voted for Obama in droves back in 2008 and helped put him in office are out of college now and can't find jobs, other than waiting tables or enlisting in the military to go fight Mr. Bush's two wars that Obama promised to end, and yet another one that Obama has gotten the USA involved in. I doubt they will be voting for him in 2012.

too funny, really? The GOP doesn't have a chance with the crop of Idots they've put out there so far. The people that vote the most are the elderly and they NEED the Medicaid and such. The people that dont mind those things being cut aren't using them. *at the moment* so they arent thinking ahead. What about their parents, grandparents and even themselves when they get older? None of the *jobs* that bush promised were ever created...Obama inherited a shit hole of a mess and now is TRYING without compromise to fix things. How can a president fix things when the very people opposing him are hardwired into making him fail, regardless of the cost to the american people. They only worry about themselves and big business. They oppose everything he throws forward and have no NEW back up plans to propose for the things they say no too.
You can have your doubts about if he will win another term...thats fine. However, untill they put a viable candidate out there to oppose him...there is no chance in hell. *personally, I'd love to see Hillary step forward again and run. I think she'd win this time.*

Oh and btw...we're down to two wars right now. A majority of people are now in Afganistan ...not Iraq. We are currently withdrawing from Iraq, now the stablity of the country is questionable...but we are withdrawing. Hopefully, Libya will be a short war. We wouldn't be there if we didn't have a reason to be.
 
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D_Harry_Crax

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Is the GOP in collapse?

YES. Bachmann's poll numbers are exhibit A: the woman is bat-shit crazy. The more one reads direct quotes from the woman's mouth over the years, things she's done in her life, etc., the more nervous everyone should be about the USA. Glenn Beck is as nutty as Bachmann is, perhaps nuttier, but he's not in Congress and not running for president. At least Sarah Palin is only stupid, not totally bizarro-crazy.
 
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