Is the GOP in collapse or are they being true patriots regarding the debt ceiling?

B_enzia35

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Then you have no right to the services provided by the Federal Government.
Please tell that to the people on welfare too.
Unfortunately how I feel isn't the way it is. I'm forced to pay taxes under threat of force from the government.
 
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Ldnn

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Why do so many people want more government?

It has shown to be inefficient in everything it does

A dollar into the economy vs. using it to pay taxes is always better


That's unfortunately rather the point, though - the bread and butter business which used to pull the USA out of recession has unfortunately moved a lot of its production to India, as well as foreign production allowing easy imports. I fully agree if that dollar goes into the US economy it's better used.

Whether or not the GOP is in collapse is a factor I'm unable to address, but wanting to block a debt ceiling increase after so many increases during the past 10-years even during a republican government is politics of the worst kind. The Tea Party campaigning in the first place to 'not increase the debt ceiling' was stupid and poorly thought through. If they're trying to leverage themselves by using headline policy then fine, but at least pick something realistic. I don't see reducing gov spending and borrowing as realistic given how much it cost to buy off the banks and how economically the government needs to spend itself out of recession before it can fiscally tighten the belt.

A lot of this depends on how entrenched the house republicans are, and how much Obama wants a second term. Oh, and I'd certainly agree with you regarding how wasteful government can be with their.. your green.
 

midlifebear

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Well, as I watch CNN, MSN, PBS News Hour, and the fanatic antics on FAUX News (anyone catch the video break on FAUX when no one thought they were still being recorded and tossed around why they dare not report on the misgivings and criminal actions against Uncle Rupert? It was price less, absolute hilarity I tells ya). But it definitely appears that Boehner can "sometimes" remember who he is and what he represents. And it's obvious he and his caucus are bad at math, since their loftily touted debt ceiling proposal yesterday was far lower, once looked at by the Federal Office of Bean Cruchers, than the GOP had been extolling.

They are still below the mark. In a back handed way, the original proposal offered by my Senator from Nevada cut a hell of a lot more than what the Tea Bag-controlled GOP could come up with . And yet, they still insist the Democrats have put nothing to paper? The GOP now, in my opinion, is a new term for "lie about something long enough until it appears true." These freshmen GOPers at the most disingenuous clot of stupid people we've probably ever had in Congress since the early 1800s. And Boehner couldn't lead them out of an airplane hanger with its doors open. Stupid is as stupid does.

I wonder what soft gooey centers the Tea Baggers have? Fondant? Caramel? Nuugat? Pinoche? A bucket of hammers? 'Tis a sad mystery. :smile::frown1::smile::frown1::smile::mad:
 

Industrialsize

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Well, as I watch CNN, MSN, PBS News Hour, and the fanatic antics on FAUX News (anyone catch the video break on FAUX when no one thought they were still being recorded and tossed around why they dare not report on the misgivings and criminal actions against Uncle Rupert? It was price less, absolute hilarity I tells ya). But it definitely appears that Boehner can "sometimes" remember who he is and what he represents. And it's obvious he and his caucus are bad at math, since their loftily touted debt ceiling proposal yesterday was far lower, once looked at by the Federal Office of Bean Cruchers, than the GOP had been extolling.

They are still below the mark. In a back handed way, the original proposal offered by my Senator from Nevada cut a hell of a lot more than what the Tea Bag-controlled GOP could come up with . And yet, they still insist the Democrats have put nothing to paper? The GOP now, in my opinion, is a new term for "lie about something long enough it appears true." These freshmen GOPers at the most disingenuous clot of stupid people we've probably ever had in Congress since the early 1800s. And Boehner couldn't lead them out of an airplane hanger with its doors open. Stupid is as stupid does.

I wonder what soft gooey centers the Tea Baggers have? Fondant? Caramel? Nuugat? Pinoche? A bucket of hammers? 'Tis a sad mystery. :smile::frown1::smile::frown1::smile::mad:
I've missed you.........:cool:
 

dandelion

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I've missed you.........:cool:
If this website was typical I would think the republican party was about to disappear come next election. Yet I suspect it is not?

The BBC is on board with this being a total farce happening in the US congress, with the republicans barely able to get their own side on board with their proposals. I see there is some anticiaption of the US credit rating being downgraded virtually irrespective of the outcome now, because all this mess really shows is incompetence and inability to do anything.
 

Ldnn

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It will be downgraded anyway, mark my words. It isn't a question as to if but when. Especially if the Boehner plan gains traction over this last week because they'll have to go through this whole shit again in 6 months for another debt limit raise.
 

TomCat84

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Please tell that to the people on welfare too.
Unfortunately how I feel isn't the way it is. I'm forced to pay taxes under threat of force from the government.

If you like roads, highways, courts, police, fire, military, etc, then STFU and pay your goddamned taxes. Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. You want no taxes? Move to Somalia.
 

Thedrewbert

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Why do so many people want more government?

It has shown to be inefficient in everything it does

A dollar into the economy vs. using it to pay taxes is always better

Incorrect.

Government spending on infrastructure (in the broadest sense of the word) results in economy benefit of 1.5 dollars for ever dollar spent.

I'm not a big supporter of welfare, but welfare is in the same range (because recipients spend all of it, generating economic activity)

It's when you give money to the rich (which is what the Bush tax cuts did)* when the economic benefit is vastly negative.



*If you have to borrow money to pretend to lower someone's tax obligations, that is giving them money and we all pay the interest on it.
 

Zayne

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Is anyone else converting their savings to Chinese Yuan?
 

arkfarmbear

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Fran Lebowitz was on Jimmy Fallon last night and she had a thought provoking comment. She was dismayed that in the last election people ran on the platform that they knew nothing about how Washington "works". Now, people can't figure out why these guys are clueless when it comes to governing.
 

B_enzia35

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Incorrect.

Government spending on infrastructure (in the broadest sense of the word) results in economy benefit of 1.5 dollars for ever dollar spent.

I'm not a big supporter of welfare, but welfare is in the same range (because recipients spend all of it, generating economic activity)

It's when you give money to the rich (which is what the Bush tax cuts did)* when the economic benefit is vastly negative.



*If you have to borrow money to pretend to lower someone's tax obligations, that is giving them money and we all pay the interest on it.
No, it isn't!:wink:

I manage a restaurant whose head owner has a house just for his toys. Cars, RVs, boats, and the like. Then his guest house is set up like a casino, and they have a yearly party there. They're rich. Like stupidly rich.

I don't think I've ever been employed by someone who is poor.
 

Mensch1351

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If this website was typical I would think the republican party was about to disappear come next election. Yet I suspect it is not?

The BBC is on board with this being a total farce happening in the US congress, with the republicans barely able to get their own side on board with their proposals. I see there is some anticiaption of the US credit rating being downgraded virtually irrespective of the outcome now, because all this mess really shows is incompetence and inability to do anything.

Welcome to "our" world --- where the Congress used to fight more fairly for the good of the nation -- not just for their special interest buddies or the evening news sound byte....and where they used to remember what they were really FOR before they changed their mind 2 weeks later. Can hardly wait for the Republicans to reap the whirlwind when they finally gain back power in whatever election and all this talk about fiscal responsibility comes back to bite them in the ass. Of course THEN they'll say, "Well -- that was back then and this is now!" (Like don't ever ever mention that GW Bush was responsible for anything relating to this mess -- but keep bringing up ad nauseum Bill Clinton's sins and faults!!!!!!!!!) We Americans just keep forgetting that the Republicans are really really good at winning elections and articulating what they're against -- but they just aren't that good at actually governing! Remember THEIR plan for health care for the 40 million Americans who had none??? Nada! Remember THEIR pushing for the little guy by raising minimum wage standards?? Nada! And now that they've cried "jobs, jobs, jobs" in the last election -- THEIR plan?? "All the tax cuts on the job 'creators' just makes it toooooooo uncertain a market for them to actually create jobs!!" Do they really have a plan?? Only one: make this President a one termer and do everything in your power to muck up the wheels of government to make that happen!
 
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itsthepopei

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No, it isn't!:wink:

I manage a restaurant whose head owner has a house just for his toys. Cars, RVs, boats, and the like. Then his guest house is set up like a casino, and they have a yearly party there. They're rich. Like stupidly rich.

I don't think I've ever been employed by someone who is poor.

Individually the rich do spend more than the poor however when agrigated the poor spend more this is because the poor spend on average 98% of everything taken in. consider that there are only 15 million stupidly rich people(if you include their children in the mechanic) in the US (more than generous figure considering i don't consider 250k a year applicable but for the sake of argument lets include that income range) roughly 5% of the population.Then you have the other 95% of the population who tend to spend 30-50% more of their total income per year, when you add up the totals giving all the gains to the 5% in a consumer economy has a negative economic effect as the money made is not efficiently spent buying useless crap.
 

FuzzyKen

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The problem here is what really constitutes rich. Many of the individuals who have supported the conservative taxation approach which has been having the middle and lower income classes supporting those on top are themselves not really benefitting from what they profess or support, they themselves are being mislead.

They are talking tax increases for people over $250,000 per year. The crock is that this is still upper middle class. This is the illusion that sounds good but is not reality. The main problem is not the top 50% it is instead the top 20% with the top 7-10% being an insult to our intelligence with regards to income versus percentage of taxation.

Tax tables are not based on the availability of tax write-offs and loopholes which are very heavily present in the top 20%. These rates which look higher than they are do not include the availability of write-offs and tax shelters available to people making millions of dollars each year. They have incredible things to write off and as the income level drops off our ability to write things against taxes also diminish instead of multiply.

This is where the inequality is most blatant.

- - - -

All spending contributes to the economy, but, because of the exportation of jobs and the importation of cheaper consumer goods economic revival is now a difficult proposition.

Most electronics are now manufactured in Asia and in Mexico. The U.S. used to have Zenith, RCA, GE, and a host of other independent brands. The last completely U.S. built television set was Curtis-Mathes which was built in San Angelo Texas.

Highway Bus Manufacturing has all been sold from the United States. GM Truck and Coach sold the bus manufacturing off to MCI. MCI was Canadian owned and did have manufacturing plants in Roswell, New Mexico and Pembia North Dakota for the U.S. Market. That manufacturing was all sold and they are now being built in Mexico. Eagle Coach was originally owned by Kassbohrer of Germany that now makes Setra Buses. Eagle became a separate brand and was built in Brownsville, Texas. That was sold to Dina of Mexico. Dina of Mexico was a Mom and Pop shop until they bought the highway bus designs from Flxible of Loudonville Ohio. Right now the ONLY thing being built in the United States are School Buses. The dollars for those half-million dollar or more entertainer coaches and motorhomes are all headed south of the border my friends.

Lont haul trucks are another area. GM Truck was sold to White which became White-Freightliner, White was sold to Volvo of Sweden and Freightliner was sold to Mercedes Benz of Germany.
When Volvo automobiles as a company was sold to Ford Motor Company the deal did get transfer any other assets of the original conglomerate. Volvo dumped their cars which had been losing money to Ford and kept the stuff that was making money which was their other products. The same was true of Saab. Saab of Sweden was sold to Generally Miserable Motors and it was not a great money maker. Sweden kept Saab aerospace which was very profitable.

GM and Chrysler exported a great deal of their vehicle production to Mexico to escape U.S. labor and environmental laws. Dodge Truck was one of the reasons that Mercedes Benz parted company with Chrysler. The quality control issues of the Mexican Built Dodge Trucks was so poor that Mercedes Benz had people down there full time for several years. The minute the cats were away the schlock work was alive and healthy and remains that way to this day.

The main reason for the Dodge Sprinter vans built by Mercedes was that it was the only way that Chrysler could get rid of the abysmal quality of assembly taking place with the export workers. It was cheaper to get rid of the product than to try and violate the contracts that had been made under NAFTA that screwed the U.S. and became welfare for Mexico.

The outsourcing of jobs has been the number one creator of the economic disaster because as the job market dries up the ability to spend money on consumer goods made anywhere goes with it.

The bi-partisan stupidity that sent banking and credit overseas defies description. Customer Service may be handled in India on your new GE dishwasher by an individual who has never seen and will never own a dishwasher at the low salary they are earning in their lifetime.

I could write ten thousand words well researched explaining the problems we have and how the taxation geared towards favoring the highest of incomes and the decisions made by people with nothing to lose by their own decisions have contributed to the destruction of the economy and to this country.

George W. is not 100% at fault for the melt down. The seeds for it were planted during the Nixon administration. The problem has been that over the many decades as these cancerous weeds began to grow that none of the Presidents following Nixon recognized this and by the time the plants were six feet tall, they had in a figure of speech become part of the landscape to the point that familiarity breeds ignorance of fact.

If the U.S. wants to have a decent economy again we need to absolutely reverse outsourcing by statute. The smarter countries did this decades ago, and they heavily tax imported goods to maintain economic balance. In the United States protections to the American Worker and his job began to evaporate with Nixon and it mushroomed after George Herbert Walker Bush to where it became an out of control bobsled. In about 2006 we began to pay the piper. Taxation, outsourcing of jobs which cut tax revenues to corporations and many other things like this are responsible for the problems.

Right now as I see it what it will take is not Romney, not Bachmann, Not Palin, and not even Obama. It will take Senatorial and Congressional leadership that has the courage to begin to remove the tax incentives and other incentives to export the American jobs overseas.
 

Phil Ayesho

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Individually the rich do spend more than the poor however when agrigated the poor spend more this is because the poor spend on average 98% of everything taken in. consider that there are only 15 million stupidly rich people(if you include their children in the mechanic) in the US (more than generous figure considering i don't consider 250k a year applicable but for the sake of argument lets include that income range) roughly 5% of the population.Then you have the other 95% of the population who tend to spend 30-50% more of their total income per year, when you add up the totals giving all the gains to the 5% in a consumer economy has a negative economic effect as the money made is not efficiently spent buying useless crap.

True... even more egregious is the fact that middle class incomes are forced to spend nearly all their income, just to live... which means that nearly ALL their income is sales or otherwise taxed. ( except in those states without sales or VAT taxes)

The truly rich, however, do NOT spend the majority of their income in ways that are taxed...
It matters not that they tend to buy more expensive things... its that 80% of their income or more is simply 'rolled over' into more stock or other interest earning ventures....
As a result, their Untaxed income accumulates and earns returns... whereas the middle and lower class incomes are denied this avenue to wealth.

This is WHY income taxes are supposed to be higher for the wealthy... to make taxation more equitable, and to allow the government to supply the masses with the things their incomes would not allow them to provide on their own ( like decent streets, schooling, and, hopefully, health care )

The rich simply no longer CARE about the middle class in America. Back in the day, the middle class was where they made their money... but American markets are no longer growing, except by the rate of immigration.

Money we let the "job creators" keep untaxed is abandoning the US, to invest in the growth markets of China and India...
They would rather stimulate 1.6 billion potential consumers in China, than try to help keep a mere 300 million Americans heads above water.


All you not actually rich conservatives? Pull your heads out of your collective asses and realize you are being sold down the river by people who could give a shit about you.

The GOP raided the US treasury over the previous 10 years to the tune of 3 or 4 trillion dollars of your taxes that they handed out in no bid corporate welfare.

They tell you government is bad, while the spend millions to get a job in government.

They want to underfund government so that the only power in this country is that of wealth.

But, think about it... In a representative democratic county...
YOU are the government. By the people, for the people, right?

In shortchanging government, the people they want to shortchange are the electorate.

Wake up.