Is the war in the mid-east worth it??

[datdude]

Is the war in the mid-east worth it??

I feel like we in th US need to think about this issue. We are not there for weapons of mass destruction or to liberate the people. Thats what they tell us so we will feel good about going to war.

The world is coming to a dangerous point with natural resources. Russia trying to claim Antartica and Canada building bases on the north pole. Both trying to gain a foothold for energy.

We are going for Iraq and Iran for it Oil. Once we have it we will be able to control China's growth in the oncoming years. We will also have military bases to strike at others from that location. It also will keep the US and its economy in good shape in the next 50 years.

We lived a blessed life in the US but we live it at the expense of others. We are on top now and will do what ever it takes to stay on top. Should we continue??? If not us than who?? China maybe??

 

[viking1]

Yes, we should continue. If it last for 50 more years, then I won't have to worry about it anyway. After that, why would I care?

 

[burns1de]

Yes, we should continue. If it last for 50 more years, then I won't have to worry about it anyway. After that, why would I care?

WTF! Is this a serious answer? This is the kind of reply that makes the entire world pissed off at the U.S., and with good reason. This kind of me-first-fuck-the-rest attitude is what's gotten you into this mess in Mesopotamia in the first place. The war in Iraq? Please, it's thousands of miles away, why bother about those sand niggers anyway, right? The Earth is getting warmer? Pffft, who cares, I won't be around when all the coastal cities will be flooded, right? The Geneva Conventions? Outdated, of course.

Enjoy your quagmire, then.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Wait, so if climate change is caused by CO2 ALONE! And we're breathing out millions of of tons of it every day, as is every animal on the planet...a genocidal answer approaches...

Anyway, take on sand-niggers with solar powered F22s and I'll be more convinced, triple so if we invade Iran to stop them acquiring cold fusion (the only clean energy source that has a high yield), rather than invading them with gass guzzling tanks (OMFG CARBON!).

 

[viking1]

WTF! Is this a serious answer? This is the kind of reply that makes the entire world pissed off at the U.S., and with good reason. This kind of me-first-fuck-the-rest attitude is what's gotten you into this mess in Mesopotamia in the first place. The war in Iraq? Please, it's thousands of miles away, why bother about those sand niggers anyway, right? The Earth is getting warmer? Pffft, who cares, I won't be around when all the coastal cities will be flooded, right? The Geneva Conventions? Outdated, of course.

Enjoy your quagmire, then.

It had just as well be serious. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it.
I can vote, but what good will that do? One of the two names of shrunken heads on the ballot will be our next leader. I can't stop the war in Iraq.
I can't stop Russia, China, Canada, or the U.S. from plundering the Earth for greedy profit. There isn't one fucking thing I can do about any of it.
The only consolation is (and I doubt it lasts that long) that if it continues as is for 50 more years I won't have to deal with the true "when all hell breaks loose" scenario. That is the only way I can keep my sanity and not worry myself to death. If you, or anyone else has any other ideas as options, I'm open for discussion...

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

No, it's not worth it. We're there to increase American military presence and political influence over the rich Iraqi oilfields. Cheney and Bush are energy guys and understand peak oil theory, and they may very well believe they are acting in the best interests of the country even while they line their friends' and their own pockets in the process. When the oil starts to run out (and some believe it already has) and all hell breaks out having a firm hand already established in the region would definitely strengthen America's position.

But personally I don't think it's worth it. The oil is going to run out eventually anyway, and fighting over the remaining chunks as it starts to dwindle is not worth the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, thousands of American lives, and billions or trillions of dollars this war will end up costing. If we spent all of that money building up alternate energy power plants and researching alternate fuels I think we would be far better off. Further, when the shit does eventually hit the fan and open war breaks out over dwindling oil supplies... the fact that Bush has completely trashed America's international reputation and squandered the goodwill we had after 9/11 is going to hurt us I think more than our military presence in the region will help us. Bush and his cronies underestimate the importance of that.

Imaginary WMDs, Saddam's human rights violations, the war on terrorism, the AlQaeda link, Iraqi freedom, and every other public rationale for the war are, of course, utter and complete bullshit every one of them. We doctored and cherry picked intelligence to make the case for WMDs. There are far worse humanitarian tragedies happening in Africa right now. The war on terrorism was significantly weakened by us going to Iraq. There was no link to AlQaeda before we got there and gave them an excuse to come in. and those in power could give fuck all about giving freedom to Iraqis.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Is the war in the mid-east worth it??

If there are any benefits to the amount of blood, treasure and credibility being expended in Iraq I'm unaware of what they are.

 

[sjprep06]

No, it's not worth it. We're there to increase American military presence and political influence over the rich Iraqi oilfields. Cheney and Bush are energy guys and understand peak oil theory, and they may very well believe they are acting in the best interests of the country even while they line their friends' and their own pockets in the process. When the oil starts to run out (and some believe it already has) and all hell breaks out having a firm hand already established in the region would definitely strengthen America's position.

But personally I don't think it's worth it. The oil is going to run out eventually anyway, and fighting over the remaining chunks as it starts to dwindle is not worth the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, thousands of American lives, and billions or trillions of dollars this war will end up costing. If we spent all of that money building up alternate energy power plants and researching alternate fuels I think we would be far better off. Further, when the shit does eventually hit the fan and open war breaks out over dwindling oil supplies... the fact that Bush has completely trashed America's international reputation and squandered the goodwill we had after 9/11 is going to hurt us I think more than our military presence in the region will help us. Bush and his cronies underestimate the importance of that.

Imaginary WMDs, Saddam's human rights violations, the war on terrorism, the AlQaeda link, Iraqi freedom, and every other public rationale for the war are, of course, utter and complete bullshit every one of them. We doctored and cherry picked intelligence to make the case for WMDs. There are far worse humanitarian tragedies happening in Africa right now. The war on terrorism was significantly weakened by us going to Iraq. There was no link to AlQaeda before we got there and gave them an excuse to come in. and those in power could give fuck all about giving freedom to Iraqis.

I cannot agree more.

The only thing this war is good for is killing our budget, in my honest opinion. We haven't won a damned thing but we have lost a hell of a lot (reputation and rights for 2 examples). I also think that this whole war is just going to bring on another attack when we least expect it since we have pissed some many other countries on the world stage.

 

[burns1de]

It had just as well be serious. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it.
I can vote, but what good will that do? One of the two names of shrunken heads on the ballot will be our next leader. I can't stop the war in Iraq.
I can't stop Russia, China, Canada, or the U.S. from plundering the Earth for greedy profit. There isn't one fucking thing I can do about any of it.
The only consolation is (and I doubt it lasts that long) that if it continues as is for 50 more years I won't have to deal with the true "when all hell breaks loose" scenario. That is the only way I can keep my sanity and not worry myself to death. If you, or anyone else has any other ideas as options, I'm open for discussion...

Fine, then. Go back to sleep, bury your head in the sand, close your eyes and block out your ears. There's a big, bad, scary world out there and it's in dire need of men of action... ie, men other than you.

NIC: Well said. Here's a link to the Wikipedia article concerning the Peak Oil Theory for those interested.

 

[viking1]

Fine, then. Go back to sleep, bury your head in the sand, close your eyes and block out your ears. There's a big, bad, scary world out there and it's in dire need of men of action... ie, men other than you.

NIC: Well said. Here's a link to the Wikipedia article concerning the Peak Oil Theory for those interested.

Seriously man, not a rebuttal. What would you suggest?

 

[burns1de]

Seriously man, not a rebuttal. What would you suggest?

Get involved in grassroot movements and locally. Write to your Representative/Senator/Governor. Go out there and make a difference in your community. I know those aren't exactly 'cool' things to do (it's much more cool to sound blasé and 'above' politics, but those things DO work. Don't listen to the smelly hippies), but whatever.

That, or study law and get into politics directly. Democracy is certainly slow and imperfect, but it's still better than the other systems. We should work with what we have and try to improve it instead of whining about it and not doing anything constructive.

 

[Not_Punny]

Wait, so if climate change is caused by CO2 ALONE! And we're breathing out millions of of tons of it every day, as is every animal on the planet...a genocidal answer approaches...

We'd be just as far ahead if we fired all politicians -- they're the ones blowing all the hot air. :wink:

- - - - - - -

I only hope that the 2008 elections will resolve this war one way or the other. Hopefully without a repeat of the Vietnamese bloodbath.

 

[rob_just_rob]

Worth it for who?

 

[burns1de]

Worth it for who?

Well, Halliburton and Lockheed Martin, for starters. If I had bought shares in those company before 9/11, I'd have a permanent fucking giant boner right now.

 

[rob_just_rob]

Well, Halliburton and Lockheed Martin, for starters. If I had bought shares in those company before 9/11, I'd have a permanent fucking giant boner right now.

The prospectuses I received for Ceramic Protection and General Dynamics came with a phone number to call if my erection lasted more than 4 hours. :smile:

 

[Principessa]

Yes, we should continue. If it last for 50 more years, then I won't have to worry about it anyway. After that, why would I care?

WTF?!?!? So you are okay with us sending at least two more generations of young men and women to die in vain!?! How could you be so cruel and insensitive? The bottom line is that this is a lose/lose situation and we need to pull out. They don't want us there, we should never have been there, and we have oil here. More importantly Detroit needs to get off its ass and start marketing affordable vehicles run with alternate fuels. I would have no problem purchasing a hybrid or a vehicle that runs on bio-diesel if they weren't $5,000-$10,000 more than the regular cars and trucks.

Fine, then. Go back to sleep, bury your head in the sand, close your eyes and block out your ears. There's a big, bad, scary world out there and it's in dire need of men of action... ie, men other than you.

Ouch, that was a little harsh. It was well deserved but still harsh.

It had just as well be serious. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

I can vote, but what good will that do? One of the two names of shrunken heads on the ballot will be our next leader. I can't stop the war in Iraq.
I can't stop Russia, China, Canada, or the U.S. from plundering the Earth for greedy profit. There isn't one fucking thing I can do about any of it.
The only consolation is (and I doubt it lasts that long) that if it continues as is for 50 more years I won't have to deal with the true "when all hell breaks loose" scenario. That is the only way I can keep my sanity and not worry myself to death. If you, or anyone else has any other ideas as options, I'm open for discussion...

You don't sound open for discussion. Jesus Christ! You sound like you have given up. :frown1: It seems you have let your negative self-esteem and woefully apathetic attitude poison your view of the entire world.

I don't like this damned war either! It was a huge mistake to go over there looking for alleged WMD's when all GWB really wanted was to avenge his daddy by finding Saddam.

 

[PussyWellington]

Onward Christian Soldiers.....

 

[burns1de]

Ouch, that was a little harsh. It was well deserved but still harsh.

I've had it with his attitude. Viking1 needs to be whipped into shape and if I have to do it, I will.

I don't like this damned war either! It was a huge mistake to go over there looking for alleged WMD's when all GWB really wanted was to avenge his daddy by finding Saddam.

That has nothing to do with the real reasons behind the war in Iraq. NIC wrote it best already, it truly IS a war about oil, a way to establish a permanent base in the Middle East (without depending on the kingdom of Saud) and a way to please Bush and Cheney's jerk off buddies in the oil industry. There's a reason why Halliburton got that no-bid contract in Iraq, why the Ministry of Oil was the first government building to be protected by American troops when they entered Bagdad (while the National Museum was being looted and plundered) and why now Iran is in the crosshair of the Americans. Getting Saddam was merely a nice bonus.

Of course, the Bush reelection campaign was more thought out than the Iraq War itself, so now we have Vietnam II in Mesopotamia, with Iran using the mess there to wage a proxy war against the Americans via Syria and destabilizing the entire region. With a belligerent Israel on the Mediterranean, an Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, an unstable Jordan and a sectarian/civil war in Iraq, the entire Middle is poised to errupt in bloodshed. Hell, it's already pretty fucking bad, but it's only going to get worse as Iran is getting closer to getting The Bomb(tm).

Remember when Bush said that going to Iraq would make America and the world safer? I know, I'm still laughing.

And by laughing, I mean crying.

 

[D_Neeson Niceone]

The war in Iraq is a huge gambit. I am not yet convinced it will work or is "worth it", but everyone saying how bad it is speaks from the lovely comfort of hindsight.

First off, does anyone really remember why we went to Iraq? Really? Anyone? Did everyone forget? Not trying to flame here, but what economic sense does it make to go to IRAQ for oil? I'd invade Kuwait personally (smaller, it's oil industry is in fine shape and already built, and it has just as much oil as the entire country of Iraq). Or how about Saudi Arabia? Or UAE? Or Oman? Anyone who shoots off America went to Iraq, spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives...for oil...is really missing the picture here. That goes right in the same category as we never went to the moon, the holocaust never happened, and Richard Simmons has children. GW, the cabinet, the entire white house staff, 77 senators, 296 representatives, all but 2 countries of the UN security council, and the vast majority of the United Nations aren't that dumb.

Also, China and Russia did not get oil from Iraq before and don't need it now. Russia has LOTS of their own oil! Any Russians reading this thread I'm sure are having a good chuckle over this.

The war in Iraq has everything to do with the HOPE for stability in the middle east. So far it's not looking promising. But pretend it went just like we all dreamed: Iraq becomes a growing nation with a healthy economy and the quality of life is much better. When things are going well for you and you have a nice quality of life, you are much less likely to be persuaded to strap a bomb to your chest and blow up a bunch of people. You MIGHT forget that Israel is your sworn enemy and every hardship you ever face in your life is because Jerusalem hasn't been melted into the sand. You suddenly start to think of maintaining your quality of life and bettering it for your children - which lessens the appeal of stuff like Jihad.

So while we are dreaming, then pretend you are in...Iran or Syria! And you notice your Iraqi buddies are living it up in style. Suddenly the current powers that be don't look so good. If you need a reference, check out Europe between the 18th and 19th century.

A LOT of people think this is pure fantasy. The Middle East has been a shithole for the last 2000 years and will be for the next. That might be true, it might not be. But wow I really really really hope it isn't for our sake.

But that's the HOPE, that's not even WHY we really went to war in Iraq. Does anyone remember what overwhelming chain of events led up to it? The way people talk about it now, you'd think Dubya just put on his cowboy hat, strapped on his peacemaker, screamed yeehaw, and tore off to Bagdad with the 3rd Infantry Division behind him just on a whim.

 

[burns1de]

The war in Iraq is a huge gambit. I am not yet convinced it will work or is "worth it", but everyone saying how bad it is speaks from the lovely comfort of hindsight.

First off, does anyone really remember why we went to Iraq? Really? Anyone? Did everyone forget? Not trying to flame here, but what economic sense does it make to go to IRAQ for oil? I'd invade Kuwait personally (smaller, it's oil industry is in fine shape and already built, and it has just as much oil as the entire country of Iraq). Or how about Saudi Arabia? Or UAE? Or Oman? Anyone who shoots off America went to Iraq, spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives...for oil...is really missing the picture here. That goes right in the same category as we never went to the moon, the holocaust never happened, and Richard Simmons has children. GW, the cabinet, the entire white house staff, 77 senators, 296 representatives, all but 2 countries of the UN security council, and the vast majority of the United Nations aren't that dumb.

The countries you have listed are either friendly to the U.S. or have small oil deposits. There's no need for the U.S. the invade Kuwait because it has friendly relations (read: oil deals) with that Gulf nation. Same with Saudi Arabia (the Kingdom of Saud has had a hand in U.S. policy in the Middle East since Bush I). Saudi Arabia and Iraq both have about a quarter of the world's oil resources on their soil each. The Middle East is a hotspot for a rapidly-dissapearing resource, which the U.S. is dependent upon - THAT is not a coincidence.

Also, China and Russia did not get oil from Iraq before and don't need it now. Russia has LOTS of their own oil! Any Russians reading this thread I'm sure are having a good chuckle over this.

Wrong again. The entire oil-for-food program debacle from the U.N. is actually proving that point of yours wrong. Oil reserves are being depleted rapidly everywhere, that's why there's a scramble right now for the Artic territory.

The war in Iraq has everything to do with the HOPE for stability in the middle east.

You are very naive if you believe that.

So far it's not looking promising. But pretend it went just like we all dreamed: Iraq becomes a growing nation with a healthy economy and the quality of life is much better. When things are going well for you and you have a nice quality of life, you are much less likely to be persuaded to strap a bomb to your chest and blow up a bunch of people.

The car bombings perpetrated by *doctors* in Glascow this summer disprove your point.

*snipping random speculation*

But that's the HOPE, that's not even WHY we really went to war in Iraq. Does anyone remember what overwhelming chain of events led up to it? The way people talk about it now, you'd think Dubya just put on his cowboy hat, strapped on his peacemaker, screamed yeehaw, and tore off to Bagdad with the 3rd Infantry Division behind him just on a whim.

I think YOU forgot the 'official' reason for going to war in Iraq. WMDs. Remember? I guess not. Lies and fabrication, that's what it was. And you're biting into it like someone bites into a hunk of cheese. You're merely repeating neo-conservative drivel. When you start looking at the facts and stop listening to Fox News, the truth becomes self-evident.