Is Therapy over used?

frizzle

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I think therapists for the majority of people and problems are a waste of time and for the weak. Most people should be able to stand on their own two feet and deal with their problems on their own and not rely on someone else. Obviously some cases are too severe to not treat on their own, people who can't leave their own houses, or cases that greatly effect their general lives, but because therapists are so easy to come by, all you need is money, people rely on them instead of theirselves which is quite sad and of course furthers our problem of a weakened culture.
 

Principessa

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NJQT not once have I tried to belittle or berate any sort of mental disorder in this thread or anywhere on this or any other board that I use. DaveyR what are your talking about? I'm not upset with you. I admit that perhaps I over reacted to shinybellend; but I don't think I sniped at you.

I very rarely believe much in the media without giving what I read and see a lot of thought and making my own enquiries. Again, in this thread I have not said that I believe what is put in front of me I said it would be easy to make assumptions. My reason for asking the questions was so that I don't make false assumptions. You are correct and I regret that I allowed myself to be, derailed as it were by SBE's comments and questions; which were vastly different from your original post. :redface:

Fortunately a professional(Simcha) was able to see my question for what it was and answer me in a friendly and calm way without the need to turn himself into some sort of a victim. I accepted and appreciate his answer.

Please do not try to slur me for asking a question. I suggest you read my posts again in this thread and if you still think that I am trying to have a go at you then I suggest that something has got lost in translation. What slur?:confused::eek:

Don't use a simple and honest question to attack me and make a drama where none needs to exist. I know what I meant with my post and have explained it a few times already. I wont be replying to you again because I wont get drawn in by a drama queen. That is all. :rolleyes:
Whatever, I am so far from being a drama queen you have no idea.:rolleyes:
 

Not_Punny

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I think therapists for the majority of people and problems are a waste of time and for the weak. Most people should be able to stand on their own two feet and deal with their problems on their own and not rely on someone else. Obviously some cases are too severe to not treat on their own, people who can't leave their own houses, or cases that greatly effect their general lives, but because therapists are so easy to come by, all you need is money, people rely on them instead of theirselves which is quite sad and of course furthers our problem of a weakened culture.

Oh Frizzle, you like to sizzle us in a saucepan, don't you?! :tongue:

I don't have a "label", I've never had meds, and I've only been a few times, but I found it helpful.

Whether the "therapist/therapy" is a trusted friend, someone with a Phd, the foam at the bottom of a glass.... or even scribblings in a journal (or at LPSG!), EVERYONE has an outlet.

It's not necessary to bash something you've never personally experienced. 19 is a hard age to understand that, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. :wink:
 

DaveyR

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njqt466 said:
DaveyR what are your talking about? I'm not upset with you. I admit that perhaps I over reacted to shinybellend; but I don't think I sniped at you.


Well it certainly appeared that way to me. It started by you calling me condescending. In a later post your reply was addressed to DAVEYR/SHINYBELLEND. HERE it is. The way in which you have used the quote function is confusing. What you have quoted in the middle paragraphs bears no name. Directly above that you address two of us. I do not like to be misrespresented in that or any other way. Did you know that to deliberately misquote someone is against the T & C's of this board? Last year a member was banned for that. If I were to address you and another person in a post then quote the other person's posts wihout using a name you'd be pretty damned pissed off. Surely you can understand that.

njqt466 said:
You are correct and I regret that I allowed myself to be, derailed as it were by SBE's comments and questions; which were vastly different from your original post.


Thanks for acknowledging that. I too have got carried away more than once in heated debate. There nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong. I have done so myself on a few occasions.

njqt466 said:
What slur?


If you alledge that I believe negative generalisations about a Country and culture where quite clearly I have stated otherwise than that to me is a slur. I think the points above however already clear that up.

Whatever, I am so far from being a drama queen you have no idea.:rolleyes:

Glad to hear it. Some things are just not worth getting worked up about. :wink:
 

whatireallywant

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Eh.... I could say that yes, it's probably a bit overused... but on the flip side, I think medications are a much worse dilemma in our society... I'd rather have people overuse therapy than psych meds.

I agree... I have been having some difficulties with the job situation and all that, and one of my friends who I've talked to about this keeps telling me to go on antidepressants. I tell her that all the ones I've tried have side effects on me that are worse than the original problem! (namely, the antidepressants I've tried make me so sleepy that I can no longer function in life!) Then she says I've tried the wrong ones and I have to keep trying different ones, or keep taking those until the side effects go down.

UH... I can't do that! I don't have time to spend 20 hours of every day asleep! (and honestly, one of the antidepressants actually made me sleep THAT much!) I have to look for a job! I want to have something of a social life!

I do think antidepressants are necessary in a few cases, if the person is truly suicidal or something like that, and if there is an antidepressant that really works for their particular chemistry, but I think they are WAY over-prescribed.
 

Ethyl

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I think therapists for the majority of people and problems are a waste of time and for the weak. Most people should be able to stand on their own two feet and deal with their problems on their own and not rely on someone else. Obviously some cases are too severe to not treat on their own, people who can't leave their own houses, or cases that greatly effect their general lives, but because therapists are so easy to come by, all you need is money, people rely on them instead of theirselves which is quite sad and of course furthers our problem of a weakened culture.

Some people find they're not in a position to rely on themselves and those who are smart enough to seek help when they need it should be applauded for their efforts not chastised.

It takes courage to ask for what you need.
 

snoozan

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Some people find they're not in a position to rely on themselves and those who are smart enough to seek help when they need it should be applauded for their efforts not chastised.

merc, frizzle seems like one of those people who would not seek help because he doesn't want to be weak and would instead shoot up a shopping mall and then kill himself. IMO.

It takes courage to ask for what you need.

It takes courage to seek mental health services when, as this thread has demonstrated, it is so disparaged. People are embarrassed to get treatment for because mental health is somehow different than physical health. I mean, who would ever start a thread, "Do you think doctors are over used? I hear all these people going to their doctors for yearly checkups, and sometimes for just a simple cold!"

I do think antidepressants are necessary in a few cases, if the person is truly suicidal or something like that, and if there is an antidepressant that really works for their particular chemistry, but I think they are WAY over-prescribed.

To me, the problem is more that antidepressants are prescribed by doctors who aren't experienced enough in psychiatry to prescribe medication for mental illness. In my experience, GPs simply aren't experienced enough to treat mental illness.

As far as being over prescribed, I wonder on what basis you make that determination. I hear that a lot, and usually it's just yet another piece of conventional wisdom based on repetition that may or may not be true. Your experience is by far not unique, but one doesn't have to be suicidal to want, need, and deserve alleviation from suffering. I've never had anyone give me cogent reasoning or statistics about the overprescription of antidepressants. The truth is, if you're not depressed they don't work. Even if you are depressed, they don't always work. Antidepressants are also not happy pills, as some people think. They don't suddenly make your life happiness and light. Most of us who take psychiatric drugs do so despite the side effects because we aren't functional without them.

As I said before, I'd rather antidepressants be over prescribed than not available. It may well become like antibiotics, where we figure out eventually when they are required and when they are not. Psychiatric drugs are very new, and the medical community is still learning how to use them appropriately.
 

DaveyR

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I'd just like to make it clear once again that my intention when starting this thread was to dispel misconceptions about folks running to a therapist every 5 minutes. Whilst I have no direct experience of mental illness I personally attach no stigma to it. I have every sympathy with people who suffer any form of illness and that includes mental illness of any kind.
 

headbang8

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Davey, I thought you asked a legit question in a courteous way. I trust that at least some of the responses enlighten you.

Simcha, you're absolutely right. The stressors of modern life are unprecedented in human history. If modern life can affect our development in ways such as making us taller, more prone to diabetes and infertility, and such, then why shouldn't it have a profound effect on our brains, too?

I would go further. What are the sources of non genetic mental illness? A childhood of insecurity, conditional love, excess social competitiveess, and insufficient time and attention from parents seem to be a few of the factors. I'd go so far as to say that American society is far more prone to subjecting kids to this kind of psychological trauma than almost any other on the planet. No wonder we're so fucked up.
 

DC_DEEP

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Reading this and other fora I see lots of references to Therapy. Without detracting from anyone's issues I wonder if people become too reliant.
<...>
I'm going to guess from your OP (and from the responses you have gotten) that you are talking about psychotherapy...
OK, I'm going to admit my bias here. I'm Simcha and I'm an American and I'm a psychotherapist intern. *Hi Simcha* LOL!

Anyway, I work in the field and I can tell all of you that psychotherapy is greatly under-utilized. Too often people medicate themselves with work, food, sex, alcohol, mind altering substances, psychotropic medication, shopping, drama, television, music, etc... and don't deal with what is actually going on.
<...>
Simcha, I want to add to your post, and Davey's, if you don't mind...

Yes, there is a tendency for some people to be overly (and unnecessarily) dependent upon their psychotherapists. I think a huge problem is that the people that need it most refuse it, and those who don't need it as much get lost in it. Yes, it's underutilized, simcha, but mostly by those people who need it the most.... and yes, it's overutilized, often by people who simply look for reasons to avoid being responsible for their own bad decisions.

njqt, and anyone else who has legitimate problems, please don't take offense at that.

Oh, and by the way, simcha, a good friend of mine is a psychology professor at a major university, currently in the tenure-track process.
 

snoozan

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Yes, there is a tendency for some people to be overly (and unnecessarily) dependent upon their psychotherapists. I think a huge problem is that the people that need it most refuse it, and those who don't need it as much get lost in it. Yes, it's underutilized, simcha, but mostly by those people who need it the most.... and yes, it's overutilized, often by people who simply look for reasons to avoid being responsible for their own bad decisions.

DC, I see what you're saying in a very specific sense. I know people who think simply by virtue of being in therapy they are dealing with their issues when they really aren't making any real changes in their lives. spending an hour bitching at someone about how life sucks and not making any real changes doesn't help anyone-- and a good therapist won't tolerate that. however, there are a lot of not-so-good therapists out there.

with that said, i still think that on the whole the mental health system is underutilized by the people that need it most, which you already said.
 

jfrsndvs

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there are some that could benefit from seeing a therapist, there is no question about that, however there are way too many people who are go to a therapist when they really do not need it, however, I personally believe that some of the therapist are nothing but quacks, many of the therapist are not interesting in actually finding the solution to ones problems.

there are some people who really are going through depression, who are actually bi-polar, or some other type of disorder, however, there are way too many people that are being diagnosed with these disorders and put on meds when they really do not need to be, that I blame the doctors and pharmacutical companies, and way too many kids are put on meds way too much, the majority of them do not need to be, yes some kids do need this addition help, but not as many as the media, doctors and drug companies wants us to believe.http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8ft1...h.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&p=pharmaceuticals
 

sbeBen

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You make silly assumptions about the behavior of an entire nation and I'm being impossible?!? :eek: :confused: IWTF!
Comment from sbe: I have made it quite clear that I have assumed nothing and merely informed you of the IMPRESSION we get from the media.

Your impression or inference from the media is false as I have already mentioned.
I have never made out that what is said in the media is true. I said "that is the impression we get" You are very much on the deffensive and for no reason!

SBE & DaveyR you hit a major sore spot with me and I bet many others on this site. I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder & Generalized Anxiety Disorder; in 1999 and Borderline Personality Disorder in 2004. I do not abuse the privilege or go to therapy just to moan and groan about some trite issue or imagined slight.


Do you moan and groan as part of your therapy though? (telling your problems to some one)<===That is a snarky remark.


I will be the judge of whether it was "snarky" or not. You have taken this scentence out of context. It was in reply to hotmilf's post and those were the words she also used. Hotmilf saw the humour in this and I'm sorry that you didn't.


Given the fact your country is barely bigger than a postage stamp I can't understand about what any of you would have to be depressed.
Then again since England is the home of the worlds oldest psychiatric hospital I have to assume you aren't missing out on anything. What is the size of our country got to do with anything??? How derogatory of you! And for the record: As you stated Davey and I have hit a sore point with you - I have suffered depression and have been on medication for this and I have also worked in a psychiatric hospital.

Take a leaf out of hotmilfs and simcha's book as they contributed to the thread without all this fuss and bad feeling you have created. No one else here has reacted as badly as you in this thread. Shame on you.
 

SpoiledPrincess

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Therapy is over used, people are offered therapy now for things they should easily (supportive family or not) take in their stride. We have a lot of stresses now that man in more primitive times didn't have, in first world countries we've removed the stress of never knowing where your next meal was coming from, living 14 to one room, the high likelihood that some of your children would die, epidemics sweeping across the country wiping out swathes of the population. We've exchanged one lot of stresses for ones that should be more manageable, but because of programs like Oprah and the ready availability of therapy we're taught that we can't cope.
 

sbeBen

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Therapy is over used, people are offered therapy now for things they should easily (supportive family or not) take in their stride. We have a lot of stresses now that man in more primitive times didn't have, in first world countries we've removed the stress of never knowing where your next meal was coming from, living 14 to one room, the high likelihood that some of your children would die, epidemics sweeping across the country wiping out swathes of the population. We've exchanged one lot of stresses for ones that should be more manageable, but because of programs like Oprah and the ready availability of therapy we're taught that we can't cope.
Nice to hear a bold opinion SP, but does it make it right just because "we didn't do that years ago". However, I too can see there MAY be problems with the too much availability of therapy. I often think it MAY do more harm than good by beeing told "you have an illness". Maybe it could help to manifest some problems. I do think that there are deffinate cases where therapy is needed though (although I am not qualified to decide that). Some people have no release available to them.

Is it not true though that in tiny "postage stamp":rolleyes: Britain, it is difficult to get counselling/therapy from your GP referal? I hear there is a long wait.
 

jason_els

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The rise of therapy coincides with two different social changes on both the micro and macro social scales.

People are more insular these days. We socialize less than we did, live in smaller family groups, and move so frequently that we leave behind friends and family to seek greener pastures. There is little sense of community in most places, people don't know each other as they did and the result is a distinct loss of social support structure. For ages and ages people were born, lived, and died in the same places, knowing the same people from cradle to grave. They lived in families with aunts, uncles, grandparents, in-laws, all under the same roof. You could talk to people, rely on them to help you, give you advice, and support you when times were difficult. Now we don't have that.

The second issue is that the social structure has radically changed. Where before etiquette was a standard-bearer of expected behavior, it has now largely gone away. We are freer to be who we want to be. When I talk about etiquette I'm not talking about Emily Post here. I'm talking about expected social behaviors that define our roles within group structures of any society. You want to see what misery was without therapy, just open Anna Karenina or Madame Bovary. Villages could have their idiots, but the great majority of the social class structure didn't permit deviance so such thoughts and feelings that might arise which were contrary to the society were repressed. You simply didn't have the luxury of having troubles that could not be supported by friends, family, or clergy. Didn't mean they weren't there, just that they had to be buried. Want to know what true mental illness was back when? Just open Jane Eyre. Every character has more issues than National Geographic.

Therapy does for us what religion used to in our post-existentialist society. With no one to pray to, we're left alone with spiritual ennui. We have few family to turn to, friends we don't live, eat, work, and know our entire lives at hand. Therapy and therapists are the western answer; science to the rescue! Whether it's better or worse than what came before, I don't know. In some cases I think it does, but not all. The more I learn about how shamanistic and religious practices work psychologically, the more I realize how important it is for the mind to believe that relief will come in order to make relief happen. Now I'm not sure waving maracas over someone will cure cancer, but if that person believes that their depression, their demons or evil spirits will be relieved by the ceremony, then it may create profound changes in the mind for the positive, just as the devoutly believing may find prayer capable of the same.

Until western society moves away from Renaissance/Enlightenment/Existentialist culture, I don't think we can find an adequate replacement for therapy.
 

Principessa

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Jason I think I need to hire you as my official interpreter.:redface: When I wrote this in a previous post: "Given the fact your country is barely bigger than a postage stamp I can't understand about what any of you would have to be depressed." I should have expanded on the thought because I was thinking about what you refer to in your 2nd paragraph quite eloquently and succinctly.

If you are born and bred in Exeter, England and after university get married and settle in Manchester or even Northern France. You will never be 3,000 miles from your parents or the people with whom you grew up.

The rise of therapy coincides with two different social changes on both the micro and macro social scales.

People are more insular these days. We socialize less than we did, live in smaller family groups, and move so frequently that we leave behind friends and family to seek greener pastures. There is little sense of community in most places, people don't know each other as they did and the result is a distinct loss of social support structure. For ages and ages people were born, lived, and died in the same places, knowing the same people from cradle to grave. They lived in families with aunts, uncles, grandparents, in-laws, all under the same roof. You could talk to people, rely on them to help you, give you advice, and support you when times were difficult. Now we don't have that.

The second issue is that the social structure has radically changed. Where before etiquette was a standard-bearer of expected behavior, it has now largely gone away. We are freer to be who we want to be. When I talk about etiquette I'm not talking about Emily Post here. I'm talking about expected social behaviors that define our roles within group structures of any society. You want to see what misery was without therapy, just open Anna Karenina or Madame Bovary. Villages could have their idiots, but the great majority of the social class structure didn't permit deviance so such thoughts and feelings that might arise which were contrary to the society were repressed. You simply didn't have the luxury of having troubles that could not be supported by friends, family, or clergy. Didn't mean they weren't there, just that they had to be buried. Want to know what true mental illness was back when? Just open Jane Eyre. Every character has more issues than National Geographic.

Therapy does for us what religion used to in our post-existentialist society. <---This is what I wanted to know a few weeks ago in one of the religion threads when I asked who atheists and agnostics turned to for faith and hope in times of need. With no one to pray to, we're left alone with spiritual ennui. We have few family to turn to, friends we don't live, eat, work, and know our entire lives at hand. Therapy and therapists are the western answer; science to the rescue! Whether it's better or worse than what came before, I don't know. In some cases I think it does, but not all. The more I learn about how shamanistic and religious practices work psychologically, the more I realize how important it is for the mind to believe that relief will come in order to make relief happen. YES! I concur!Now I'm not sure waving maracas over someone will cure cancer, but if that person believes that their depression, their demons or evil spirits will be relieved by the ceremony, then it may create profound changes in the mind for the positive, just as the devoutly believing may find prayer capable of the same.

Until western society moves away from Renaissance/Enlightenment/Existentialist culture, I don't think we can find an adequate replacement for therapy.

On a slightly different note I never understood why St. Jude was the only saint who read the classifieds or needed a public thank you.:tongue:
 

jason_els

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Actually, the Canaries are part of Spain. Not quite a postage stamp compared to many other countries.

In other news, thank you for the kind remarks :smile:.
 

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Nowadays we live in societies which teach us we're not responsible, if kids go wrong it isn't their parents who failed them, if someone murders someone we make excuses for them, and if we're unhappy we're not taught to sort it out for ourselves, we're taught to seek help from a therapist or some other outside authority.

People now move away from the place their parents lived in, but it's no different now than it always has been, a woman got married in 1505, moved to the next village and it would be two days travel to see her family so she'd be no more likely to see more of her family than any of us are now. In very ancient times the custom was for a woman to marry outside her village, she'd have the new support system of her husband's family, we don't have these support systems now but they're replaced by doctors, social workers, legal advisers - there's an adviser for everything.
As parents part of our role is to teach our children to be self sufficient and modern society in locum parentis is teaching us that we can't cope with the slightest thing. I'm not talking about catastrophic events that don't happen to people on a daily basis, I'm talking the little things. I think there's a fiction that families used to have these large support systems, their support systems might have been numerically larger but hour for hour we all get more attention and time with our immediate family now.