Is this how HILLARY intends to unite the country?

[Trinity]

I am delighted to discuss some issues. Industrialsize pointed to a few:


I support the Defense of Marriage Act. Her stance on repeal has not been an issue of mine.

Sen. Hillary Clinton has a plan to address the Mortgage Crisis. Obama apparently doesn’t understand that the housing market is broken. Obama’s band-aid fix won’t fully address the problem. “We need a candidate with the strength and experience to propose a moratorium and rate freeze to help Americans get back on their feet.” Sen. Clinton’s foreclosure fund is 3 times bigger than Obama’s because she understands the magnitude of the crisis. Finally, Sen. Clinton's plan addresses the needs of subprime borrowers, a population that is disproportionately low-income.

In regards to HealthCare, Sen. Clinton has a plan to get to true Universal Health Care. Obama’s plan will not cover all Americans. He simply does not understand how we get to Universal Health Care. There are millions of Americans who make over $75,000 a year and can afford it but they do not purchase healthcare because they aren’t sick right now. These Americans do not receive preventive healthcare and end up in the emergency room costing all Americans Billions. But lets address this Massachusetts thing…Obama finally got a talking point (again from Gov. Patrick after using his speeches lol) for his flawed Health Care Plan. Gov. Romney called the Big Dig the biggest Car Wash in History because any plan can waste billions of dollars if it is mismanaged. The MA healthcare plan may be too costly for 20% in Mass - again mismanagement Gov. Patrick needs to deal with.
“Under the terms of the Massachusetts plan, the state government is providing free coverage to the most needy, offering subsidies for those struggling to pay the cost and has helped create discounted policies for those left to pay for coverage on their own.
Those who haven't signed up face a series of escalating fines unless they get a hardship exemption, which would come into play if someone made too much to qualify for the subsidized coverage by not enough to pay for one of the discounted policies.”


Again people who refuse to do anything and cost others demonstrate a need for an affordable mandate.

Gov. Patrick goes on to disagree with Obama:
Senator Obama: "They are then worse off: They then have no health care, and are paying a fine above and beyond that."
Patrick drew the line at that comment. He said he disagreed that anyone is worse off for the institution of the plan.
"No," the governor declared. "The system as a whole is about getting insurance to everybody, but just ordering people to have insurance, without the other components, is just not going to work."
He added: "A mandate with cost controls, and the other features of our system, including the subsidies where they apply, is part of what we have here and what we're trying to make work."


Clinton’s plan has all the components to make it work. Obama’s plan will leave people out. I support the Clinton Universal HealthCare Plan.

 

[deleted213967]

Fact 1: Hillary is a known lesbian. That would fully explain why, as was revealed on this very forum, she so relishes being surrounded by oversized black dicks. The latter FACT also corroborates the latent racism that permeates all the Clintons.

Go O Obama!

Fact 2: The so-called web of charities that the Clinton doppelganger runs is in fact, people close to reliable sources report, a vast money-laundering operation designed to both finance the Clinton campaign and solidify their ties with the Mafia.

Go O Obama!

Fact 3: Chelsea Clinton has been getting a free ride for far too long. Little is said about how she ever made it to, let alone THROUGH Stanford, before being sent to Oxford (Mississippi). People close to undisclosed-yet-reliable sources confirm that HRC, who as you well know INVENTED waterboarding, tortured the entire Admissions department there to place her (evidently not biological) “daughter” and coax cash out of clueless Silicon Valley VCs. Moreover, Chelsea Clinton’s constant public appearance alongside her “mother” is a vast PR hoax. She is held on stage against her will, hence the need for the aforementioned well-endowed security staff.

Go O Obama!

Fact 4: The Clintons cannot represent the poor and the underprivileged EVER!

Bill was born into money and overprivilege, the son of an index-based derivatives hedge fund manager and a concert pianist, who by age 27 had become la fine fleur des salons parisiens.

Hillary’s daddy was a prominent anorectologist with offices in Darien, East Hampton and Los Altos Hills. HRC’s middle class upbringing is an invention fabricated by one of her faux-black campaign co-chair.

Go O Obama!

 

[Industrialsize]

I am delighted to discuss some issues. Industrialsize pointed to a few:


I support the Defense of Marriage Act. Her stance on repeal has not been an issue of mine.
Well, we'll have to diasagree here. I am legally married in Massachusetts, DOMA prevents my marriage from being recognized in other states and unfarily discriminates aginst gay people

Sen. Hillary Clinton has a plan to address the Mortgage Crisis. Obama apparently doesn’t understand that the housing market is broken. Obama’s band-aid fix won’t fully address the problem. “We need a candidate with the strength and experience to propose a moratorium and rate freeze to help Americans get back on their feet.” Sen. Clinton’s foreclosure fund is 3 times bigger than Obama’s because she understands the magnitude of the crisis. Finally, Sen. Clinton's plan addresses the needs of subprime borrowers, a population that is disproportionately low-income.

I think a moaratorium will have the unintended consequence of causing hurting people currently trying to finance houses by making it MORE difficult. Obviously a Moratorium will hurt lenders financially and that HURT will be passed on to comsumers.
I'm not sure I understand why you say that Obama doesn't understand that the housing market is broken. Seems like he understands it and has a plan to fix it:
Protect Homeownership and Crack Down on Mortgage Fraud

Obama will crack down on fraudulent brokers and lenders. He will also make sure homebuyers have honest and complete information about their mortgage options, and he will give a tax credit to all middle-class homeowners.

• Create a Universal Mortgage Credit: Obama will create a 10 percent universal mortgage credit to provide homeowners who do not itemize tax relief. This credit will provide an average of $500 to 10 million homeowners, the majority of whom earn less than $50,000 per year.
• Ensure More Accountability in the Subprime Mortgage Industry: Obama has been closely monitoring the subprime mortgage situation for years, and introduced comprehensive legislation over a year ago to fight mortgage fraud and protect consumers against abusive lending practices. Obama's STOP FRAUD Act provides the first federal definition of mortgage fraud, increases funding for federal and state law enforcement programs, creates new criminal penalties for mortgage professionals found guilty of fraud, and requires industry insiders to report suspicious activity.
• Mandate Accurate Loan Disclosure: Obama will create a Homeowner Obligation Made Explicit (HOME) score, which will provide potential borrowers with a simplified, standardized borrower metric (similar to APR) for home mortgages. The HOME score will allow individuals to easily compare various mortgage products and understand the full cost of the loan.
• Create Fund to Help Homeowners Avoid Foreclosures: Obama will create a fund to help people refinance their mortgages and provide comprehensive supports to innocent homeowners. The fund will be partially paid for by Obama's increased penalties on lenders who act irresponsibly and commit fraud.
• Close Bankruptcy Loophole for Mortgage Companies: Obama will work to eliminate the provision that prevents bankruptcy courts from modifying an individual's mortgage payments. Obama believes that the subprime mortgage industry, which has engaged in dangerous and sometimes unscrupulous business practices, should not be shielded by outdated federal law.

In regards to HealthCare, Sen. Clinton has a plan to get to true Universal Health Care. Obama’s plan will not cover all Americans. He simply does not understand how we get to Universal Health Care. There are millions of Americans who make over $75,000 a year and can afford it but they do not purchase healthcare because they aren’t sick right now. These Americans do not receive preventive healthcare and end up in the emergency room costing all Americans Billions. But lets address this Massachusetts thing…Obama finally got a talking point (again from Gov. Patrick after using his speeches lol) for his flawed Health Care Plan. Gov. Romney called the Big Dig the biggest Car Wash in History because any plan can waste billions of dollars if it is mismanaged. The MA healthcare plan may be too costly for 20% in Mass - again mismanagement Gov. Patrick needs to deal with.
“Under the terms of the Massachusetts plan, the state government is providing free coverage to the most needy, offering subsidies for those struggling to pay the cost and has helped create discounted policies for those left to pay for coverage on their own.
Those who haven't signed up face a series of escalating fines unless they get a hardship exemption, which would come into play if someone made too much to qualify for the subsidized coverage by not enough to pay for one of the discounted policies.”


Again people who refuse to do anything and cost others demonstrate a need for an affordable mandate.

Gov. Patrick goes on to disagree with Obama:
Senator Obama: "They are then worse off: They then have no health care, and are paying a fine above and beyond that."
Patrick drew the line at that comment. He said he disagreed that anyone is worse off for the institution of the plan.
"No," the governor declared. "The system as a whole is about getting insurance to everybody, but just ordering people to have insurance, without the other components, is just not going to work."
He added: "A mandate with cost controls, and the other features of our system, including the subsidies where they apply, is part of what we have here and what we're trying to make work."


Clinton’s plan has all the components to make it work. Obama’s plan will leave people out. I support the Clinton Universal HealthCare Plan.
And if someone can't afford healthcare and doesn't qualify for a subsidy, How will the Clinton Plan enforce the mandate? Will these people be fined? Will they have their wages garnished? I live in Massachusetts and this is exactly what is happening. Also "small business" owners are being forced to provide healthcare coverage to their employees. Many small business owners simply cannot afford this extra cost and are either having to close shop or lay off employees. I happen to be one of these employers. Trust me, I LIVE in Massachusetts and this is what is happening

 

[Skull Mason]

Hillary will pick up the phone at 3 am, and then she will roll over and give it to Bill. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[HazelGod]

Hillary will pick up the phone at 3 am, and then she will roll over and give it to Bill. Nothing wrong with that.

HAHAHA!

Skull, you're assuming that Bill would be in bed with Hillary at 3:00 AM...and that's something we definitely can't take for granted! :biggrin1:

 

[Trinity]

As of late, when pressed on the issue as to why she is the one to take the 3 am phone call........Senator clinton has mentioned the work she did on a trip to Kosovo to "open the borders" and her helping to "negotiate peace in Ireland. It has now come out in the press that the Kosovo trip was actually a semi USO trip to entertain the troops. On this trip to "Open the Borders" she was accompanied by Sheryl Crow and the comedian Sinbad. On the Ireland trip, President Clinton did the "heavy lifting". First Lady Hillary Clinton had tea with dignitaries. This revealtion comes from one of the Government officials in Ireland who was puzzled at Senator Clinton's claim to have helped negotitate peace in Ireland.

Former Democratic Senate majority leader George Mitchell, who was a U.S. special envoy to Northern Ireland, told CNN that while Clinton was not directly involved in negotiations, she did play a helpful role in bringing in women's groups that made a difference.​

Mitchell is a Democratic superdelegate and has not publicly endorsed Clinton or Obama.​

Rep. Peter King, a Republican from New York, was also involved in the process. He recalls one late-night meeting with former President Bill Clinton, Sen. Clinton and Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams.​

"There was a discussion of how the IRA would decommission its weapons. And I know that Sen. Clinton was part of that meeting," King said.​

There is a saying: "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world." There are many African sayings to that effect that I'm sure Sen. Obama can appreciate. And since I know Obama has the highest respect for his wife, I doubt he would belittle the contribution she made to a Peace effort or Open Borders effort. The fact of the matter is that Hillary Clinton made a contribution to the Foreign Policy Efforts and it was in the Foreign Policy Arena no matter if Bill Clinton "did the heavy lifting." That is as it should be. Bill Clinton was president and nobody said Hillary Clinton was a foreign policy Advisor in the Clinton Administration. But how many people know that as his wife she was? Of course, because though women don't always hold a title, we do make a difference. Never underestimate the power of women, their role or the contribution they can make. Devaluing it doesn't make Obama look strong...but weak.

Trying to say Clinton has no foreign policy experience is a weak attempt to take focus off of the fact that Obama has NO, nada, zilch, zero foreign policy experience be it while sipping tea or otherwise.

 

[Skull Mason]

HAHAHA!

Skull, you're assuming that Bill would be in bed with Hillary at 3:00 AM...and that's something we definitely can't take for granted! :biggrin1:

agreed...just sayin'

 

[Trinity]

IndustrialSize, you are for your candidate and I'm for mine. Your points do not convince me that Obama has better solutions for the problems facing America and the world because to me Hillary Clinton's are better.

If it is just a matter of listing out every point of the Senators' plan...I can do that. But it doesn't change anything. You will support Obama regardless. Which is fine. One Person One Vote. We have a right to disagree on DOMA...thats what this country is about. On healthcare, well I already answered your question in great detail. Gov. Patrick answered your question. LOL Hillary Clinton's plan answered your question. LoL If you don't support it, then that is all there is to that.

In regards to the mortgage crisis, I believe a 90 day moratorium is absolutely necessary or the bottom will fall out of the housing market and new home buyers will be facing higher prices anyway. Give home owners a chance to start making payments again without cutting off your nose to spite your face. A Moratorium is necessary for 90 days, and I believe new home buyers can get through 90 days in order to start to heal this major crisis.


Hillary has been on the ball dealing with this issue for years and has introduced her own legislation. It appears Hillary's one act encompasses several of Obama's but his stuff kinda always sounds like Sen. Clinton's.

Sen. Clinton : In response to this crisis, I recently introduced the

• Mortgage Refinancing Initiative of 2008, which will provide an opportunity for at-risk households to refinance unworkable mortgages. Since the crisis began last year, I have urged regulators and the mortgage industry to take the necessary steps to end the foreclosure crisis and ensure that it never recurs.
• Last year I reintroduced the 21st Century Housing Act, which strengthens the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), makes FHA loans available to more Americans, and expands access to a responsible and stable alternative to the subprime market. I has also introduced the
• Home Ownership Preservation Act which eliminates abusive lending practices, cracks down on unscrupulous brokers, expands the foreclosure prevention initiatives at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and provides financial assistance to states to expand their foreclosure prevention programs.
• I called on the mortgage industry and Wall Street to observe a 90-day moratorium on subprime foreclosures, a 5-year freeze in rates on subprime adjustable rate mortgages, and proposed $30 billion in assistance to states and communities to fight foreclosures and offset the costs associated with mounting vacancies.
• :smile:

 

[Industrialsize]

One minor correction, Senator George Mitchell is a public supporter of Senator Clinton;..the only reason I brought up Kosovo and Ireland is because these are the 2 points that the Senator refers to when speaking of her foreign policy experience. I think a reasoned argument can be made that she i "slightly conflating" the truth.

Actually Governor Patrick didn't answer my question....people in the State of massachusetts, Citizens and business owners are being financially penalized for not buying health care insurance that they can't afford in the first place. That's not right

And lastly, it's been nice chatting with you Trinity, I'm glad we;ve both been able to get past the name calling and sweeping generalizations. If Barack doesn't win the nomination i promise to vote for Hillary. If Hillary doesn't win do you promise to vote for barack?

 

[playainda336]

If Barack doesn't win the nomination i promise to vote for Hillary. If Hillary doesn't win do you promise to vote for barack?

I think you represent the typical Obama supporter.

Me on the other hand? I am definitely going to be voting McCain if Obama wins. I think Hillary's plans will cause more hurt than harm to the economy.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

Former Democratic Senate majority leader George Mitchell, who was a U.S. special envoy to Northern Ireland, told CNN that while Clinton was not directly involved in negotiations, she did play a helpful role in bringing in women's groups that made a difference.​

Yet David Trimble, the first minister of the Northern Ireland Assembly (1998–2002) and shared a nobel prize for the peace in Northern Ireland, said she played a cheerleader, NOT a participant.
​

"Not directly involved in the negotiations but blah blah" means she was not involved in the POLICY. Her claim is that she has foreign POLICY experience that makes her more experienced than Obama. Her POLICY experience is bringing peace to Northern Ireland. No, it turns out she simply supported other key figures that were working on the POLICY.

This was her claim that she introduced. No one said she wasn't qualified or that she didn't have an foreign policy experience, she opened herself up for his criticism on her own, by volunteering that she had a much bigger role than she claims. She's inflating her resume, end of story.

 

[deleted213967]

Yet David Trimble, the first minister of the Northern Ireland Assembly (1998–2002) and shared a nobel prize for the peace in Northern Ireland, said she played a cheerleader, NOT a participant.
[/indent]"Not directly involved in the negotiations but blah blah" means she was not involved in the POLICY. Her claim is that she has foreign POLICY experience that makes her more experienced than Obama. Her POLICY experience is bringing peace to Northern Ireland. No, it turns out she simply supported other key figures that were working on the POLICY.

This was her claim that she introduced. No one said she wasn't qualified or that she didn't have an foreign policy experience, she opened herself up for his criticism on her own, by volunteering that she had a much bigger role than she claims. She's inflating her resume, end of story.

It is you that should end the story. It's getting old, unlike you I might add.

You are sexually attracted to Barack Obama. That's the story. He is all yours. I am certainly not standing in your way.

Your attempts at proselytising are completely vain. Absent some intellectual doubt, integrity and willingness and ability to present all the facets of a complex problem, you will only confirm the stereotypes you so decry about the Obama "cult". Historically, "cults" have rarely produced seminal results.

Not a single candidate, not even McCain, has ever been POTUS before. Only a first-term incumbent can boast that kind of experience.

As you know, the electorate has historically tended to vote for governors, presumably because they are apt to apply their baby executive experience to the whole nation. We have nobody with executive experience this time around...NOBODY.

Hillary Clinton has more experience than Barack Obama by virtue of being older than Barack Obama by well over a decade. Both were academic overachievers (although Yale is #1 in Law) and both have been hyper-active in the public life since their youth.

Hillary was never a Hausfrau, neither as the Arkansas's First Lady for a full 12 years nor in the course of her 8 years in the White House.

The Health Care Task Force she led was a monumental project. She failed, but obviously learned from her mistakes. Why don't you stop by her web site (yup, she even has one of those) and see how detailed her speech excerpts are about health care, among other key topics?

Even a personal umbrella carrier would learn something about leadership by serving a leader for 20 freaking years.

You can't deny her First Lady experience notwithstanding evidence that she was a very active one and at the same time accuse her of everything Bill Clinton did.

Finally, you may take it for granted that (white) women in the US have shattered the glass ceiling but, with all due respects, I don't believe you have access to the men's bathroom, where the good old boys feel free to say what they REALLY think about women in the workforce.

Remember: even ceteris paribus, US women earn only 90% of what their male counterparts earn...and even you can't deny that HRC has fought all her life for women's rights...hardly the fast lane to the top.

 

[Trinity]

Yet David Trimble, the first minister of the Northern Ireland Assembly (1998–2002) and shared a nobel prize for the peace in Northern Ireland, said she played a cheerleader, NOT a participant.
[/indent]"Not directly involved in the negotiations but blah blah" means she was not involved in the POLICY. Her claim is that she has foreign POLICY experience that makes her more experienced than Obama. Her POLICY experience is bringing peace to Northern Ireland. No, it turns out she simply supported other key figures that were working on the POLICY.

This was her claim that she introduced. No one said she wasn't qualified or that she didn't have an foreign policy experience, she opened herself up for his criticism on her own, by volunteering that she had a much bigger role than she claims. She's inflating her resume, end of story.

Well far be it for me to contradict a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Out of respect I will take his characterization of Hillary Clinton’s Contribution to the Efforts to Bring Peace to Northern Ireland just as he states. First Lady, now United States Senator Hillary Clinton was a Cheerleader for Peace. Hmmm…She was a Peace Supporter, Cheerleader for Peace…she supported the efforts of others negotiating and brokering a Peace Agreement…she did whatever she could in her role to help this important Foreign Policy Agreement come to fruition. Hmmm…Hillary Clinton is a Cheerleader for Peace.

Though the Nobel Prize Winner, Obama supporters and Obama himself can “characterize” First Lady Hillary Clinton’s contribution to the Peace Efforts anyway they choose, they cannot take away that she made a difference and contributed to Foreign Policy Peace Efforts.

Katie Couric There has been a lot of controversy about Hillary Clinton’s foreign policy credentials, and some of the claims she has made. She’s talked about being active in the Good Friday Agreement, the peace agreement in Northern Ireland which you of course spearheaded. Can you describe her role in that process?

George Mitchell: She was helpful and supportive, very much involved in the issues, knew all of the delegates. She accompanied President Clinton on each visit he made to Northern Ireland, made several visits of her own. Her greatest focus was on encouraging women in Northern Ireland to get in and stay in the political process, the peace process. And I have said publicly many times and wrote in my book, the role of women in the peace process in Northern Ireland was significant. It did make a difference in the process, so as I said I think it was a helpful and supportive role.

Couric: Her claims to be involved in, you believe are not exaggerated?

Mitchell: Well, I haven’t seen the exact words that she has used to describe it. I have gotten a lot of calls from reporters who have told me what she said but I think her statements are generally accurate to the extent that they have been relayed to me.

If Barack Obama had gone as a part of the envoy to Northern Ireland simply as an Intern to the Nobel Prize Winner, never speaking a word, only getting the Nobel Prize Winner his coffee, Obama would be making speeches from sea to shining sea about how much his foreign policy experience in Northern Ireland taught him and prepared him for being President. If Obama had been invited by Jesse Jackson Sr., to go to Iraq as his personal assistant to be neither seen nor heard from, while Jesse negotiated the miraculous release of American hostages, Obama would be giving resounding sermons that rhymed a la Jackson on how he now knows what it takes to preserve life in a international crisis.


So what counts as Foreign Policy experience? Hillary Clinton met with and brought groups to the table, which made a difference to the Peace Process which counts as Foreign Policy experience.

I’m sure that soon Obama will take a trip similar to Sen. McCain’s…overseas to meet with Foreign Dignitaries in order to try and mitigate the fact that he has nothing in the Foreign Policy Arena to stand on, but it will only look like a Cheesy Photo Op…because he won’t be brokering any peace agreements, or gaining release of hostages, or signing any trade agreements.

Let’s go back to the original analogy…if Hillary Clinton was a Cheerleader for Peace while the boys played the Football Game of Foreign Policy Negotiation, Barack Obama wasn’t even Water Boy…know why? Because he was absent from the Foreign Policy Football Game.

If Obama had Hillary Clinton’s experience he’d probably write a book called “Cheerleader for Peace” to go along with “Audacity of Hope.”

And yes that is the end of the story Zo.

 

[deleted213967]

If Obama had Hillary Clinton’s experience he’d probably write a book called “Cheerleader for Peace” to go along with “Audacity of Hope.”

And yes that is the end of the story Zo.

As far as foreign policy is concerned, I have to admit I melted when I saw the footage of her speech before the whole geriatric leadership of China.

Reading a transcript is one thing, but actually seeing her all alone on the stage, on enemy turf and excoriating those dictators for trampling on women's rights was something to behold.

Li'l Bush , for all his "swagger" would never have to balls to confront the Chinese goverment in that manner even if he cared about human rights.

 

[Trinity]

One minor correction, Senator George Mitchell is a public supporter of Senator Clinton;..the only reason I brought up Kosovo and Ireland is because these are the 2 points that the Senator refers to when speaking of her foreign policy experience. I think a reasoned argument can be made that she i "slightly conflating" the truth.

Actually Governor Patrick didn't answer my question....people in the State of massachusetts, Citizens and business owners are being financially penalized for not buying health care insurance that they can't afford in the first place. That's not right

And lastly, it's been nice chatting with you Trinity, I'm glad we;ve both been able to get past the name calling and sweeping generalizations. If Barack doesn't win the nomination i promise to vote for Hillary. If Hillary doesn't win do you promise to vote for barack?

You may want to let CNN know of the correction. According to their reports of what he said, he had not come out for either at that time.

I believe Hillary's Foreign Policy experience is valuble to the job of Commander in Chief by virtue of her involvement and her ultimate contribution.

You know it is funny because it was Sen. Obama who couldn't answer the penality question in the debate in regards to his own plan. People who can afford to pay for health insurance but refuse to do so...cause costs to sky rocket. Hillary Clinton's plan provides the components for affordability and a mandate to cover all Americans. When people know how the MA plan really works and how some people simply choose not to sign up or get a hardship exemption, and how Gov. Patrick believes that the plan works with the components then Obama's argument really supports Clinton's plan. (BTW I am very familiar with Massachusetts ):wink:

It was nice chatting with you too IndustrialSize. :smile: If Barack Obama gets the nomination, I will support him. I will support the Democratic Nominee.

 

[Industrialsize]

See you after the convention..........

 

[playainda336]

Ugh. This Hillary Clinton boning session has lost its taste.

I mean...rationalize all you want. Facts are facts. Let's deal with those.

 

[simcha]

"Vote for Me or the Children Will die"--Hillary Rodham Clinton '08

What? Will she stuff them in the oven inside her gingerbread house?

 

[deleted213967]

"Vote for Me or the Children Will die"--Hillary Rodham Clinton '08

What? Will she stuff them in the oven inside her gingerbread house?

Excellent argument. I am sold.

Follow The Leader! Go Obama 2016!

 

[vince]

"Vote for Me or the Children Will die"--Hillary Rodham Clinton '08

What? Will she stuff them in the oven inside her gingerbread house?

LOL. Yes my pretty. And your little dog too!

The way the Obamites and the Clintonistas are going at each other, soon there'll be no need for Hannity and Limbaugh. I'm afraid the centre-left is going to implode and we'll be stuck with another Republican in the White House.

Clinton is not a malicious cunt and Obama is not an air-head. Both have good and bad qualities. Both would be better for the U.S. and the rest of the world than four more years of the high-spending, incompetent group in power now. McCain is not as bad a man as Bush or Cheney, but he represents the same power elites that are currently running the show.