Is this relationship worth salvaging?

[ConstantComment]

I know over a week ago I started a thread full of hope about the guy I was dating a couple of things now have to come to a head (the problems associated with giving someone the benefit of the doubt I guess.)

Here's the situation:

He went away for 2 weeks at the end of July. I then very nicely celebrated his birthday by fixing him dinner and getting the exact cake that he likes. Then a couple of weeks after that, I had to make an emergency trip to my parents over three weeks. We e-mailed each other a couple of times.

I had mentioned the day I was getting back and suggested that we get together. He responded to the e-mail but didn’t sound too enthusiastic. We spoke the evening that I arrived, in any case, talking about how our last three weeks went. He asked me if I thought it was ok that he goes out with women but just as friends. Despite the literal meaning of the question, I had the feeling that he was letting me know that he’s seeing someone(s) else. Then he mentioned that he was taking a trip at the end of the month, saying the destination but not giving any indication of whether it was a group thing or one on one.

I was thinking that he was losing interest but then he called me twice to suggest getting together. I returned his call and we settled on a Sunday as there were a couple of cultural things I wanted to see and I was rounding up a group of friends to go anyway. We ended up having lunch with a group of friends, one of whom is leaving the city for good. So she announced her leaving drinks for next Friday there.

He then calls me in the middle of the week suggesting that we see each other on the weekend. He had no plans but after some talking he mentioned that he wanted to go to the theater. Ok, fine let’s go. So then I felt more comfortable asking him if he would like to join me at this leaving drinks. So, last weekend was very nice. We saw each other both Friday and Saturday nights and I stayed over both nights.

But Sunday morning, the truth comes out. He’s taking this trip with one woman, not with a group. She was someone whom he dated a few times a couple of months before he and I met. She had, it seems, downgraded him to “friend” so they stopped seeing each other. Then she called him, asked him what’s going on and he told her told that he’s dating another woman and mentions me by name.

He asked me if I wanted to join them. I said no, that I had some other obligations, I couldn’t go. I would turn such an after the thought offer, whether I was busy or not. He reassured me that they have separate hotel rooms, but there’s indication for me to see.

Of course now today, more stuff comes out. He sent me an e-mail last night in which he says he now knows that she has a boyfriend. I was really enervated over this and finally sent him an e-mail saying that he owed me a telephone call right now. He called me in a bout 15 minutes of that e-mail.


We hade our discussion in which I learned:

• He recalls saying that he wished that I was going with them, not that he was asking me to join them. Even though I reminded him that had said “ I too much going on to join you this weekend.”
• He also doesn’t recall telling me that they had separate room but in fact separate beds.

I’m thinking a couple of things here.
1. In these conversations he and I have had in this last month, he has asked me if I had considered being exclusive with him, but didn't directly ask for it. This was one of the conversations in which he became direct about the reappearance of this woman. Introducing this third party, whether real or not, has not had a positive effect on my opinion of him or our relationship. But given some things that have happened between us that didn't make sense, I now think that this woman came on the scene around the middle of July.

2. Do a lot of men really think that competition is a good motivator for relationships?

3. I find it interesting that while he tells me that he had mentioned me by name to her, he didn't tell me her name until he informed me that she had a bf. Is there some siginificance to that?


4. I accept that while we are not exclusive, he may want to go dutch treat more often. But I find it an interesting that he can pay completely for a trip with someone he is not exclusive with. If he is asking me to pay when we go out, does that mean that he really sees me as Z-list:

Opinions from both men and women who have been on both sides of this equation will be very welcomed.

 

[spooky204]

My advice: get out, this is nothing but bad. If he's playing with you now, it'll just get worse. It's obvious he's already playing you.

 

[kurios]

No cause is there really one?

 

[irox19]

is this guy someone you are dating casually, or have you both established a relationship?

If you are casually dating, I would say maybe you are reading into things too much. Seeing someone, hooking up, and regular dating does not equal exclusivity, and I am wondering what your views are on that? As an outsider, it sounds like you definitely are casually dating and hooking up on occasion...and perhaps the guy knows that but may also be aware you feel more or have more emotion invested and he does not want to hurt you. Sorry I am babbling because I am writing this out on my phone.

To answer two of your questions....2. If the answer is yes (which from what I read the answer may be yes), I suggest you walk away from whatever is going on. Just cut your losses and move forward. Why get more involved with more chances of getting hurt. If you walk away now, you can do so holding your head high.

3. Generally speaking, I would say in most instances with perhaps a few rare occasions, it is best not to read into what people say and drive yourself crazy picking over each word and its potential context. How do you benefit from that?

ill be back to post on this later because I have a few other comments.

 

[helgaleena]

If this is how he feels about the 'player' who has another boyfriend, it means that deep down he was not over her and is all too ready to jump when she whistles. It means also that it isn't germane to characterize what you have with him as a 'relationship' until he gets his mind and heart straight. He is asking you to 'be exclusive' when he seems unable to do it himself with his whole heart.

It's up to you whether you are willing to settle for the level of convenience the liaison offers now, and I think you were right to object to being second best in his plans. Is he fun enough to keep seeing or not? Only you can decide.

 

[ConstantComment]

****Is he fun enough to keep seeing or not? Only you can decide. ****

Thanks for all of your responses and that would be great to get more. I have always thought a message board is good place to hash out issues while remaining discreet in real life.

I am trying to sort why I am so annoyed by this situation since we have not declared exclusivity to one another. He asked whether I would spend the night with him last Saturday after we went out to the theatre. In this same conversation, that was when he said that he wanted exclusivity and didn't like dating more than one woman.

And then it was on Sunday morning at break fast that he told me the particulars of this trip. Up to that point I had found him to be good company but I also felt that I was missing some of the chivalric things that a man does that she cares.

For example, a couple of evenings when we had parted ways, I was annoyed that he took the first bus to his neighborhood that came along instead of waiting until the right bus came for me and then he waits for his bus. Just when I thought I would raise the issue, as we parted from the Sunday lunch with my friends, that was when he did wait with me for my bus. Ok, some progress, I thought.

While I was accepting the idea that we both could still date others since we had not agreed to exclusivity, I just find it interesting that he felt the need to be so explicit about this trip which as I mentioned before, I simply assumed that it was a group trip organised. I always find it ironic how much time and goodwill one wastes with employing "benefit of the doubt." OTOH, I have found it disturbing when dating a guy who, when he can’t find me by phone starts leaving messages like “who is he? What’s his name? and so on. I certainly don’t want to be that type of date, girlfriend or SO.

And then of course it really irritated to the point that I wanted to speak with him after he sent me the e-mail which he told me she has a boyfriend. Yeah, I did get some things off my chest at that point but now I’m wondering if things might have been better if I had said a few things earlier.

A very close friend of mine who does get the blow by blow accounts of my dating him said that since I was having a good time with him for the most part and if he is interested dating me exclusively, I should consider giving him another chance. Just wondering then what to look out for in going forward.

 

[Nekoman]

i know over a week ago i started a thread full of hope about the guy i was dating a couple of things now have to come to a head (the problems associated with giving someone the benefit of the doubt i guess.)

here's the situation:

he went away for 2 weeks at the end of july. I then very nicely celebrated his birthday by fixing him dinner and getting the exact cake that he likes. Then a couple of weeks after that, i had to make an emergency trip to my parents over three weeks. We e-mailed each other a couple of times.

i had mentioned the day i was getting back and suggested that we get together. He responded to the e-mail but didn’t sound too enthusiastic. We spoke the evening that i arrived, in any case, talking about how our last three weeks went. He asked me if i thought it was ok that he goes out with women but just as friends. Despite the literal meaning of the question, i had the feeling that he was letting me know that he’s seeing someone(s) else. Then he mentioned that he was taking a trip at the end of the month, saying the destination but not giving any indication of whether it was a group thing or one on one.

i was thinking that he was losing interest but then he called me twice to suggest getting together. I returned his call and we settled on a sunday as there were a couple of cultural things i wanted to see and i was rounding up a group of friends to go anyway. We ended up having lunch with a group of friends, one of whom is leaving the city for good. So she announced her leaving drinks for next friday there.

he then calls me in the middle of the week suggesting that we see each other on the weekend. He had no plans but after some talking he mentioned that he wanted to go to the theater. Ok, fine let’s go. So then i felt more comfortable asking him if he would like to join me at this leaving drinks. So, last weekend was very nice. We saw each other both friday and saturday nights and i stayed over both nights.

but sunday morning, the truth comes out. He’s taking this trip with one woman, not with a group. She was someone whom he dated a few times a couple of months before he and i met. She had, it seems, downgraded him to “friend” so they stopped seeing each other. Then she called him, asked him what’s going on and he told her told that he’s dating another woman and mentions me by name.

he asked me if i wanted to join them. I said no, that i had some other obligations, i couldn’t go. I would turn such an after the thought offer, whether i was busy or not. He reassured me that they have separate hotel rooms, but there’s indication for me to see.

of course now today, more stuff comes out. He sent me an e-mail last night in which he says he now knows that she has a boyfriend. I was really enervated over this and finally sent him an e-mail saying that he owed me a telephone call right now. He called me in a bout 15 minutes of that e-mail.


we hade our discussion in which i learned:

• he recalls saying that he wished that i was going with them, not that he was asking me to join them. Even though i reminded him that had said “ i too much going on to join you this weekend.”
• he also doesn’t recall telling me that they had separate room but in fact separate beds.

i’m thinking a couple of things here.
1. In these conversations he and i have had in this last month, he has asked me if i had considered being exclusive with him, but didn't directly ask for it. This was one of the conversations in which he became direct about the reappearance of this woman. Introducing this third party, whether real or not, has not had a positive effect on my opinion of him or our relationship. But given some things that have happened between us that didn't make sense, i now think that this woman came on the scene around the middle of july.

2. Do a lot of men really think that competition is a good motivator for relationships?

3. I find it interesting that while he tells me that he had mentioned me by name to her, he didn't tell me her name until he informed me that she had a bf. Is there some siginificance to that?


4. I accept that while we are not exclusive, he may want to go dutch treat more often. But i find it an interesting that he can pay completely for a trip with someone he is not exclusive with. If he is asking me to pay when we go out, does that mean that he really sees me as z-list:

opinions from both men and women who have been on both sides of this equation will be very welcomed.

drama = difficult

 

[mwealex]

Get off this train wreck before the dramma gets worse.

 

[Ethyl]

While I was accepting the idea that we both could still date others since we had not agreed to exclusivity, I just find it interesting that he felt the need to be so explicit about this trip <snip>.

He was specific for a reason. He wanted to see your reaction. Now he knows how you feel.

And then of course it really irritated to the point that I wanted to speak with him after he sent me the e-mail which he told me she has a boyfriend. Yeah, I did get some things off my chest at that point but now I&#8217;m wondering if things might have been better if I had said a few things earlier.

I don't understand why it would irritate you if you're not interested in being exclusive. Or are you?

A very close friend of mine who does get the blow by blow accounts of my dating him said that since I was having a good time with him for the most part and if he is interested dating me exclusively, I should consider giving him another chance. Just wondering then what to look out for in going forward.

See above. If you're interested in exclusivity consider looking for someone else.

 

[ConstantComment]

****I don't understand why it would irritate you if you're not interested in being exclusive. Or are you? ****

I had thought that that was one possibility between us but I am wary of the insti relationship so I am careful not to hurtle into exclusivity which when one is not careful can deteriorate into those do nothing weekends where dates begin Friday evenings and end Monday mornings; you don't see your friends anymore; nothing ever gets done and so on. I remember cohabitating with a bf when I was in grad school. He had a lot of family in the same city, really on the same street where we lived as his uncle was a professor there. We acted as if we were married; his expecting me to do everything with his family but on the other hand it limited my getting to know other classmates; study more and more intently that I had and all for what....we never got married.

Even the courtship that led to marriage for me, we never declared exclusivity and I only stopped dating/going out with/ fooling aroun with the other guy when we got engaged. The courship was long distance but he insisted upon a Sunday morning phone call wherever I was or he was. It went a long way towards buidling trust and security

I understand I am on different clock than others. Some people want exclusivity by the third date. and some after three months. Some require before having sex. since I insist on a condom I guess I am a little relaxed about that. After my experience dating a guy who was selfish in bed, I am quite keen to, as men would say, test drive the merchandise before making big commitments.

And so it irritated becuase being explicit like that is not style. A guy will know that I have other options due to my lack of availabilty or my desire to have higher standards in our interactions between one another....which was why I was wondering how best to broach the issue of his waiting with me for the bus.

Ok, so he corrected himself on his own on that matter. Then you wonder again how direct you need to be or whether indirect means can be effective.

The problem I see with anyone being explicit about the other people that they are dating means you know how much effort they put it into dating the other person. It's an in your face proposition. Or as I said to this guy, it is very insulting to me that you are exclusive with neither of us and yet you see fit to take her on a trip tdid not treat me to lunch when we were out with my friends. and yes I think anyone would be piqued by that. How they might handle it would of course be different that what I did.

A variation on this theme is to date someone who brags about the things that they have done for past girlfriends. All I can think is that the bar has been set.

I'm glad to mull over this and I am appreciative of other people's input. I would like to remarry and have not had too many relationships since my divorce. Hence, I am trying to learn again to navigate and to pace. So in this instance really wondering how to judge the optimal time of dating on into exclusivity and so on. So just really looking at this situation to see if there was anything I should have done differently.

 

[earllogjam]

It should be clear within 2 more months whether he's right for you or not. If you don't feel good being with him you'll dump him. I wouldn't over analyze this or it will drive you crazy and him too! lol.

It should feel natural, easy, and fun. Anything less, you should seek greener pastures.

 

[johnchow]

well, it might look crazy but it's something similar to my story which we turned into serious relationship. We both played and still do so. That makes your life highly interesting and you don't know what next turn brings to you However we both decided it's better to trust in each other feelings and just allow everything we want. If she wants to make a trip with someone that's ok for me. Just wanna know who's he.
This way I now have 3 beautiful girls around me who are all my best friends! We can talk we can joke we can make one-on-one evenings or even late night "dates" but we both know that when I get back home I'm still hers and she's always mine

So my suggestion here is... if you feel you like my story, just keep him and start playing just like he is doing now!

 

[ConstantComment]

It should be clear within 2 more months whether he's right for you or not. If you don't feel good being with him you'll dump him. I wouldn't over analyze this or it will drive you crazy and him too! lol.

It should feel natural, easy, and fun. Anything less, you should seek greener pastures.

Why do you say two months?

 

[Drifterwood]

I get the feeling that you want exclusive, and I imagine he gets that impression too.

She moves on from him, he finds you, she suddenly wants some back. Doesn't sound pretty.

Just having sex is so much easier than all these convoluted dating variables. If you want a BF that may become a partner, then I think you need to make this clear to him. If you just want some company now and again and whatever else you might want, then I would tell him that as well. Either you are both looking for the same thing or you are not.

 

[earllogjam]

Why do you say two months?

That's about how long it takes for that enamel of pretense and show to wear off to see what's really underneath. And for you to decide if he's gonna be good for you and each other.