Israel attack on Gaza: Fragile peace shattered again

Discussion in 'Politics' started by dong20, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. dong20

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  2. 18_alone_in_bed

    18_alone_in_bed New Member

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    sickening... I feel truly sorry for the Palestinians.

    edit:
    i hope this thread hasn't been started with the idea of starting a tit for tat argument.. I've studied the subject for quite a while and I've found that voicing your opinions can often lead to a lot of hate and abuse thrown back at you.. so to all those out there who have strong opinions, please respect mine too.

    It's ironic that the Palestinian/Israeli struggle is often reduced to tit for tat.. but I'm sure there are intelligent people on both sides who have some compassion and understanding for their 'enemy'..
     
    #2 18_alone_in_bed, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  3. Jason

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    I'm pretty much numb at news of this conflict.

    It is not that it is unexpected. Rather it is that it is so hard to see any possible way forward.

    Hamas will gain support in Gaza because Gaza is under attack. They have already pledged themselves to attack Israel, and will get support for this. If I were a Palestinian I would probably be calling for a war against Israel.

    Israel has endured months of rocket attack from Gaza. It is hard to imagine any nation state not responding. If I were an Israeli I would probably be calling for a war against Palestine.

    I just don't see how the world moves on this. We need the people of Gaza and the people of Israel to elect different politicians with different views. No-one thinks there is much possibility of the former, and probably not much of the latter either.
     
  4. dong20

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    Well, elections are coming up in Israel, in February - but this attack is (IMHO) in part at least, a ploy in the election campaign, which rather bodes ill for productive dialogue between the two sides in the short to medium term. Especially so given the nature of the elections or rather, the circumstances in which they were called - and who is likely to win. Although Netanyahu stated he would continue the peace process, his past record suggests this may be a lacklustre effort.
     
  5. transformer_99

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    At this point I wish they'd just get on with it, all out war until one of them is extinct, survival of the fittest. These two will go back and forth at each other until they realize they both really don't have enough of each side left to fight one another. It would be long overdue, they've been going back and forth for decades now. Hamas & Hezbollah are terrorist organizations and this would be Israel's war on terrorism.

    Bottom line though, both sides must fight on their own, no US intervention, I'm tired of politicians and go betweens trying to bring peace there. What a waste of time and effort.
     
  6. Drifterwood

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    The Israeli Police wished to indict Olmert in September, perhaps the Hague will now be joining the queue.

    I would be happy for someone to explain it to me in a civil manner, but I can't help but see that the Palestinians are living in an open concentration camp in Gaza as the result of Israeli Zionist imperialism (please check your history of the expansion of Israel from the original UN agreement before you flame me on that). Backed by the US of course for their own ends in the region.

    Does resisting this make you a terrorist?
     
  7. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    These battles have roots dating thousands of years. You can't going to be able to explain it all in simple terms. Part of the problem is many on both sides are descended from Abraham. Ishmael the eldest son was rejected, and Isaac was favored. People tend to hold on to grudges forever and ever.
     
  8. Calboner

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    To hurl inflammatory bullshit like "concentration camp" and in the same breath ask for a civilized response is disingenuous. Nonetheless, the fact is that Israel pulled out of the Gaza strip completely in 2007, even though it meant dragging Israeli settlers out of their homes there by force. The militants have been using Gaza as a base for rocket attacks on Israel ever since. During the "cease-fire," they merely reduced the frequency of those attacks. For them, being left free by the Israelis is not a step toward peaceful coexistence -- something in which they have no interest -- but a situation to be exploited for tactical advantage.
     
  9. Drifterwood

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    Why is it disingenuous or inflammatory to use the term concentration camp? The Palestinians evicted from their homes have been concentrated in the Gaza Strip for the convenience of the militarily successful. The British used them in South Africa, the US used them for Japanese etc etc.. The Israelis have used them for Arabs. Though perhaps the Native American Reservations were the first example in modern history.

    Tell me why one person is a great patriot and another a terrorist for fighting for their homes?
     
  10. transformer_99

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    Apparently it does in the perspective of the US and it's allies. I used to have empathy but let's face it, "decades of who did what to whom" just in our lifetimes, and you kind of lose track over who the good guys and the bad guys are. So if they wipe each other, one or the other out, kind of solves the issue and it doesn't really waste any more resources & time to go try to figure it out. Like I said, they'll nail each other blow for blow, and in the end, the impetus will run out of steam. That is until the next altercation arises. Wonder what they'd do if the news didn't even bother to report it ? I certainly don't want this to adversely effect oil prices, less expensive gas is working for me right now. I went thru the $ 4+/gallon phase as did everyone else. This instability is irrelevant to/for me, unless it raises prices. That's why I'd just assume they get it over with. Trying to solve it is hopeless and these spats are just a desperate plea for attention. Hey, just an experiment, but if they'd nuke each other, I'm for giving both sides the means to do it, just to see who has the cajones or whether cooler heads would prevail and each would know they could wipe each other out ? Wouldn't it be interesting to see whether they continued fighting conventionally or whether they'd wipe themselves out ?
     
  11. Elmer Gantry

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    Yes, the $4 gallon of gas was the end of the world, wasn't it?
     
  12. uniqueusername

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    There's another option: Israel invades Palestine, wipes out their army, and ends this bullcrap forever.
     
  13. Maia

    Maia New Member

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    ?
    Or Israel grants the right to return to the displaced Palestinians, and ends this bullcrap forever. There are other viable means to peace, that can be done in peaceful ways.
     
  14. Elmer Gantry

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    Not quite. Israel invades Palestine, wipes out their army (and most of the civilian population in the process, inflames hatred amongst Arab states to an even higher level, finds itself fighting serious border incursions on three sides, has to go cap-in-hand to US for help, US goes on another crusade, everyone else piles in on this cluster fuck, we all pay $8 a gallon for gas because the middle east is now glass.

    Very clever.
     
  15. Elmer Gantry

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    Go andlook up how many UN Security Council resolutions one party is in violation of and tell me that they're all at fault.

    Take a peek at the World Court rulings on the land grab matter while you're at it.
     
  16. transformer_99

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    When it wasn't budgeted for, it's quite the burden, just ask those that went deeper into debt or who's quality of life deteriorated ? I don't have cable tv anymore and foregoing it to pay for something else that the sacrifice still didn't cover was an erosion of my standard of living. But that's a personal issue and nobody wants to hear or cares about those these days ? I can't be the only one who's standard of living has eroded over the last 8 or more years ? And you're right that's not the end of the world either that I don't have cable tv anymore, but look at this wonderful economy, where gas prices are now, makes you wonder where our money really was going and for what ? So what are the repercussions of me and enough others foregoing cable tv ? Is that going to result in a smaller base of customers to prorate revenues over ? Sounds to me like it's going to cost others even more ? Enough on that though.

    But let's be fair about this, Bush attacks Iraq, Israel attacks Gaza. Innocent civilians are killed, so what's the difference ? So it would be the end of the world if they did that to each other ? They're doing it anyways, so why not let them do the job right this time ? What are the real agendas/motivations behind this, population control, economic manipulations, greed over land ? This flares up like a hemorrhoid periodically and the rest of us are supposed to have a collective "boo freaking hoo", they're killing themselves a couple days after Christmas ? Unless you really appreciate having this funded and extorted from your income, we're all throwing money into it in support one way or another, voluntarily or involuntarily ? It all comes down to Hitler=Hitler, Bush=Hitler, Israel=Hitler and Hamas/Hezbollah=Hitler. Notice the common denominator in those equations ?
     
  17. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    I always scoff at the "peace agreements' between these two, and the third-party diplomats who pat themselves on the back for an "historic accord".

    Yawn.
     
  18. Drifterwood

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    Yeah, I yawned when the Twin Towers came down. :rolleyes:
     
  19. leoboy63

    leoboy63 Member

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    I don't agree with war, but I do agree that one country has the right to defend it's citizens from attack. It's about time Israel took action against these terrorists. The whole reason Gaza was returned to the Arabs was for peace. What have the Arabs done for peace in that time? Rained down thousands of rockets and mortars on Israeli towns and civilians.

    Now I don't use the word "Palestinians" because there is no such a people or ethnic group. Before the 1945 founding of Israel these people were simply Arabs that were either Syrian, Jordanian, Egyptian or Lebanese. The term "Palestine" came from the British rule.

    Any land that is taken in war to protect ones borders is fair game. Is the United States pressured into giving back land to Mexico that was taken in war? Most of the Southwest would be Mexico if that were the case.

    I find it truly hypocritical to call the Israelis "aggressors" for defending their citizens while it is perfectly OK for Hamas to fire rockets at purely civilian targets in Israel, even after they have the land they wanted. Would the US government sit idly by if Mexican or Canadian forces were lobbing rockets over the border? Why should Israel? Israel went after military targets and of course there is going to be civilian Arab casualties since Hamas uses their own people as shields like a bunch of chicken shits.

    Israel does not have to open it's borders in any way to Gaza. The border is their own and who comes and goes is their choice. The hardships are brought on by Hamas and their failure to live in peace within their borders. They want it both ways; they want their land and to be free to come and go into Israel, they want Israel to supply them with what they need but they don't want Israel to exist. An Arab can walk down the street freely in Israel and not be bothered. If I were to walk into Gaza I would be killed on the spot just for being a Jew.

    Oh, and by the way, for anyone who doesn't know: Hamas means "Violence" in both Arabic and Hebrew. Yeah, so boo hoo for the poor Violence party in Gaza.
     
    #19 leoboy63, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  20. transformer_99

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    So then, let this escalate into a full scale conventional war ! Winner take all !
     
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