Israel/Palestine: What's your view?

[Andyb2]

How can you be so dull of understanding?

Your only take is to minimise everything that happens against Israel and try and explain it away.

I have already answered your bias loaded questions a number of times and clearly stated that not everything Israel has done is right. Perhaps emotional rants don’t let you read properly?

There are problems on both sides and it’s infantile to suggest it’s all Israel’s doing.

Take a lead from your own lecturing to me, educate yourself and consider what someone from within Hamas’ own leadership has said about what they’re doing.

What positive contribution has the PLO or Hamas made to the welfare of its communities? You can’t answer that either! It seems like the answer is nil - so you pretend that’s not an issue.

There is no need to keep ranting on about the ‘all evil Israel’. You know, the one which agreed to the two state solution which the Arab nations didn’t want and then waged war on them - numerous times. The Israel which gave back land they had won in war as a trade off for peace which never came, the Israel which is constantly attacked no matter what it does, the Israel which the Arab nations swore to destroy and except those that have now recently signed a peace treaty have never retracted from.

Why do you excuse the behaviour of those ‘peace loving Arabs’ who encourage and reward suicidal behaviour of their vulnerable young people and want to cut the throats of and attack Jews everywhere. Such behaviour in anyone else would be considered horrifyingly evil! Yet you ignore this completely.

And because you like to make shit up and fling out false accusations. I am certainly not referring to ‘all Arabs’ in the above, just referring to what has happened.

 

[Andyb2]

Further, none of you have presented anything much resembling any bare facts. More emotional hyperbole that you screech is a fact. As if yelling it makes it more believable when it’s only generalised biased opinion.

 

[chrisrobin]

So what are you ChrisRobin? A mover and shaker in Middle East politics? Lol.

Ive got plenty of knowledge and facts about the actual history, the good and the bad! I was hoping to learn more here, as I am open to learning, but there’s very little actual material you or anyone else has put forward, more manufactured outrage than anything much else.

The ‘chosen few’ are there to relay His message, but you seem to think other things.
God chose the world (Jews and ALL the others) but He needs you to choose Him too for it work properly.

So far from the state of things he hasn't done a very good job.
Maybe all that dying stuff and rising from the dead, being the result of a virgin birth and then having to walk on water not to mention feeding the multitudes seems to have sapped his strengthen so there's noting left now.
Oh and as I remember it in foxholes being bombed and shelled most guys cried for their mothers! Lets face it no one else was listening.

 

[zinderel]

lol lol

How can you be so dull of understanding?

Your only take is to minimise everything that happens against Israel and try and explain it away.

I have already answered your bias loaded questions a number of times and clearly stated that not everything Israel has done is right. Perhaps emotional rants don’t let you read properly?

There are problems on both sides and it’s infantile to suggest it’s all Israel’s doing.

Take a lead from your own lecturing to me, educate yourself and consider what someone from within Hamas’ own leadership has said about what they’re doing.

What positive contribution has the PLO or Hamas made to the welfare of its communities? You can’t answer that either! It seems like the answer is nil - so you pretend that’s not an issue.

There is no need to keep ranting on about the ‘all evil Israel’. You know, the one which agreed to the two state solution which the Arab nations didn’t want and then waged war on them - numerous times. The Israel which gave back land they had won in war as a trade off for peace which never came, the Israel which is constantly attacked no matter what it does, the Israel which the Arab nations swore to destroy and except those that have now recently signed a peace treaty have never retracted from.

Why do you excuse the behaviour of those ‘peace loving Arabs’ who encourage and reward suicidal behaviour of their vulnerable young people and want to cut the throats of and attack Jews everywhere. Such behaviour in anyone else would be considered horrifyingly evil! Yet you ignore this completely.

And because you like to make shit up and fling out false accusations. I am certainly not referring to ‘all Arabs’ in the above, just referring to what has happened.

Hamas.
Is.
Not.
Palestine.

Palestine.
Is.
Not.
Hamas.

Hamas are baaaad. We get it. No one is arguing with you on that point, despite how badly you clearly wish we were. No one is saying Hamas isn’t a problem in search of a solution. Conversely, literally no one has said Israel doesn’t have a right to defend themselves, or that Israel is ‘evil’, merely that responding with a series of overwhelming bombings that indiscriminately slaughter civilians and children (not to mention the targeted bombings of media outlets and US Navy ships) in FAR greater numbers than any bunch of fireworks in soda bottles and rocks tossed over walls MIGHT be overdoing it a bit…

We are simply saying that treating all Palestinians like Hamas agents has led to the demonization and dehumanization of Palestinian civilians by supporters of Israel. Which you go on to give example after example of in literally every post you make equating all Palestinians with Hamas whenever anyone defends Palestinian civilians. Or questions Israel’s tactics. Or disagrees with you. You LITERALLY suggested that another poster was a secret Palestinian, because you didn’t like what he was saying.

YOU equate all Palestinians with Hamas.
YOU call anyone who disagrees with you - or with Israel’s doctrine of overwhelming retaliation - pro-Hamas, or a terrorism supporter, or a secret Palestinian.
YOU demonize ALL Palestinians by equating them with Hamas at EVERY turn.
YOU justify the slaughter of innocent civilians who have the misfortune of being Palestinian in Israeli controlled Palestine by saying it’s Hamas’ fault, and completely gloss over the very REAL reality that Israel has FAR more devastating weapons that they see no reason not to use, leading to the bombing of civilian targets - hospitals, schools, media buildings, US ships… - which is unacceptable.
YOU ignore the reality that high-level support among the American Right is not pro-Israel, despite their pretty words to the contrary, but is merely anti-Muslim/pro-ethnic cleansing of non-White Supremacist Christians.
YOU call anyone who criticizes Israel an anti-Semite.
YOU ignore literally EVERY bit of evidence, or fact that doesn’t fit your narrative that Israel does nothing wrong ever because somethingsomething Holocaust, somethingsomething ‘Chosen People’, somethingsomething Hamas.

Maybe try not equating criticism of Israel with support for Hamas. Maybe try not being a complete ass to literally everyone who disagrees with you. Maybe try not coarsening the discussion with insults and then whine about how no one can talk reasonably.

*shrug*

I won’t hold my breath.

And I will keep pointing out your hypocrisy as long as you keep lashing out overzealously at others and then whine about how mean people are to you. I get that Israel is your example in how to deal with a conflict. The whole point of this thread, though, is…that maybe it shouldn’t be. Maybe BOTH sides are responsible for the bad shit that’s between them. And maybe it’s incumbent upon the side with literally ALL the power to stop abusing that power if they want to be taken seriously when they say they want only peace. Because, judging by the actions of the military - actions that we ALL have seen, read about, or watched footage of the aftermath of that we have seen for decades - the only peace Israel wants from Palestine is the death of every Palestinian who doesn’t submit to Israel’s rule... and that’s not the kind of peace anyone but racists can support.

 

[Jdubyaa007]

It's barbarism either way.

Nobody is right. Cherry picking history is only indicative of self guilt.

 

[Jdubyaa007]

So far from the state of things he hasn't done a very good job.
Maybe all that dying stuff and rising from the dead, being the result of a virgin birth and then having to walk on water not to mention feeding the multitudes seems to have sapped his strengthen so there's noting left now.
Oh and as I remember it in foxholes being bombed and shelled most guys cried for their mothers! Lets face it no one else was listening.

I try to gain perspective

 

[Jdubyaa007]

Excuse me everyone, if you’re a white male, in particular one from Australia or San Fran, you aren’t allowed to have an opinion. (Well, not unless you hate Jews.)

We now have a ‘real’ expert in the building, silence please everyone.

Can we get a consensus on that please.

I'm an indigenous American. Do I meet your biased perquisites?

 

[deleted1072631]

Without cherry picking history or realizing that today's "jewish" people aren't the Israelites who fled the land due to war and the taxation that came with funding war which led to their migration into European societies before attempts at maintaining their society within Europe, the current situation is blatantly outside of said history which is an excuse, supported by the US and its allies, to exterminate the Palestinians through apartheid and ethnic cleansing. You don't push a segment of a specific kind of people into a corner and then strip them of their rights to exist hoping the bad treatment forcing them to leave. How is it that a Jewish American can fly to Israel and steal the home of a Palestinian and be protected under their rule of law?! Like, I can go to the grocery store, some guy claiming to be Jewish can break into my home, lock me out and have police demand the Palestinian prove their residency in a court that's not acknowledging them. Now, you're homeless and some how that's okay in this conversation?! Israel is not the victim in this story. You don't get to create a ghetto for Palestinians, cut their resources to economic opportunity, clean water, food and shelter... it's no different than the US creating ghettos for Africans in America and enforcing an entire judicial system, Joe Biden, that over polices and hold them 100x more accountable. Aren't the IDF training American police as well? And you think Hamas trying to be the government of this patch of land isn't about liberation of some sort?! Rather the Palestinians agree with Hamas or not, they have no representation as long as Israel is aligned with western powers. Why is Israel agitating Iran, an ally of Syria, in Syria unprovoked?! Syria isnt their war. They're provoking Iran to help excuse the US into protecting them as an ally which allows the US to go to war with Iran, steal their oil and then set up camp to dominate the rest of the middle east. If you don't know these things, you shouldn't speak onnany of this at all. Being a zionist, blind support of Israel, doesn't help Israel because it's propaganda based stanning. If you support Israel that much, go there and see what's really going on on both sides and report back to us.

 

[Andyb2]

Without cherry picking history or realizing that today's "jewish" people aren't the Israelites who fled the land due to war and the taxation that came with funding war which led to their migration into European societies before attempts at maintaining their society within Europe, the current situation is blatantly outside of said history which is an excuse, supported by the US and its allies, to exterminate the Palestinians through apartheid and ethnic cleansing. You don't push a segment of a specific kind of people into a corner and then strip them of their rights to exist hoping the bad treatment forcing them to leave. How is it that a Jewish American can fly to Israel and steal the home of a Palestinian and be protected under their rule of law?! Like, I can go to the grocery store, some guy claiming to be Jewish can break into my home, lock me out and have police demand the Palestinian prove their residency in a court that's not acknowledging them. Now, you're homeless and some how that's okay in this conversation?! Israel is not the victim in this story. You don't get to create a ghetto for Palestinians, cut their resources to economic opportunity, clean water, food and shelter... it's no different than the US creating ghettos for Africans in America and enforcing an entire judicial system, Joe Biden, that over polices and hold them 100x more accountable. Aren't the IDF training American police as well? And you think Hamas trying to be the government of this patch of land isn't about liberation of some sort?! Rather the Palestinians agree with Hamas or not, they have no representation as long as Israel is aligned with western powers. Why is Israel agitating Iran, an ally of Syria, in Syria unprovoked?! Syria isnt their war. They're provoking Iran to help excuse the US into protecting them as an ally which allows the US to go to war with Iran, steal their oil and then set up camp to dominate the rest of the middle east. If you don't know these things, you shouldn't speak onnany of this at all. Being a zionist, blind support of Israel, doesn't help Israel because it's propaganda based stanning. If you support Israel that much, go there and see what's really going on on both sides and report back to us.

You are all full of shit and of yourselves. I’m surprise you haven’t alleged that the Jews were behind 9/11 and a conspiracy to control the world. Let me just get my tin foil hat.

Ethnic cleansing and no representation. You understand that there are communities within Israel who are Arab Muslims? You realise that there is a Muslim in the Israeli Government!!!

Do you forget that the Jews agreed to the Two State solution but the Arabs rejected it vowing to push the Jews into the sea. Why have the neighbouring Arab states maintained refugee camps for over 50years instead of assimilating them. What has their governing body Hamas done for them that’s good? Their policies are only destructive towards their own people.

Still, as another member said, why do you bother. He’s right.

If you argue with a bunch of fools, it’s hard to tell who’s the fool. I haven’t read the last few drivel’s of posts and won’t be reading anymore. So rant away, I won’t be reading, but after reading here enough I understand why their isn’t peace in the Middle East and how organisations like Hamas gain traction. Not one sensible response in these emotional tirades.

 

[zinderel]

You are all full of shit and of yourselves. I’m surprise you haven’t alleged that the Jews were behind 9/11 and a conspiracy to control the world. Let me just get my tin foil hat.

Ethnic cleansing and no representation. You understand that there are communities within Israel who are Arab Muslims? You realise that there is a Muslim in the Israeli Government!!!

Do you forget that the Jews agreed to the Two State solution but the Arabs rejected it vowing to push the Jews into the sea. Why have the neighbouring Arab states maintained refugee camps for over 50years instead of assimilating them. What has their governing body Hamas done for them that’s good? Their policies are only destructive towards their own people.

Still, as another member said, why do you bother. He’s right.

If you argue with a bunch of fools, it’s hard to tell who’s the fool. I haven’t read the last few drivel’s of posts and won’t be reading anymore. So rant away, I won’t be reading, but after reading here enough I understand why their isn’t peace in the Middle East and how organisations like Hamas gain traction. Not one sensible response in these emotional tirades.

Once again, your hypocrisy is showing. Now, criticizing Israel's doctrine of overwhelming retaliation means you think 9/11 was committed by Jews, apparently...

So, again, I'll remind you:

Andyb2: "If we can’t even discuss that reasonably here how do we expect the Middle East leaders to work out a reasonable solution."

 

[deleted1072631]

You are all full of shit and of yourselves. I’m surprise you haven’t alleged that the Jews were behind 9/11 and a conspiracy to control the world. Let me just get my tin foil hat.

Ethnic cleansing and no representation. You understand that there are communities within Israel who are Arab Muslims? You realise that there is a Muslim in the Israeli Government!!!

Do you forget that the Jews agreed to the Two State solution but the Arabs rejected it vowing to push the Jews into the sea. Why have the neighbouring Arab states maintained refugee camps for over 50years instead of assimilating them. What has their governing body Hamas done for them that’s good? Their policies are only destructive towards their own people.

Still, as another member said, why do you bother. He’s right.

If you argue with a bunch of fools, it’s hard to tell who’s the fool. I haven’t read the last few drivel’s of posts and won’t be reading anymore. So rant away, I won’t be reading, but after reading here enough I understand why their isn’t peace in the Middle East and how organisations like Hamas gain traction. Not one sensible response in these emotional tirades.

Because they knew Israel's placement would become a welcome mat for western imperialism. There are Muslims and Jewish Israeli citizens who want peace. Why not focus on those efforts instead of the right wing citizens of Israel reinforcing hate and the propaganda that forces Israeli citizens to believe they're on the right side of history when they blow up hospitals, schools, roads, a news building, etc...

And why would I blame Israel for 9/11? They didn't do it. The US probably shouldn't fund and train terrorist in hopes of destabilizing the middle east in the first place...?? This isn't about blaming Palestinians and Jewish people. It's about recognizing that the right wing government of Israel, America Jr, has done a disservice to their own citizens with a shit ton of propaganda to justify their doing Palestinians dirty.

 

[chrisrobin]

You are all full of shit and of yourselves. I’m surprise you haven’t alleged that the Jews were behind 9/11 and a conspiracy to control the world. Let me just get my tin foil hat.

Ethnic cleansing and no representation. You understand that there are communities within Israel who are Arab Muslims? You realise that there is a Muslim in the Israeli Government!!!

Do you forget that the Jews agreed to the Two State solution but the Arabs rejected it vowing to push the Jews into the sea. Why have the neighbouring Arab states maintained refugee camps for over 50years instead of assimilating them. What has their governing body Hamas done for them that’s good? Their policies are only destructive towards their own people.

Still, as another member said, why do you bother. He’s right.

If you argue with a bunch of fools, it’s hard to tell who’s the fool. I haven’t read the last few drivel’s of posts and won’t be reading anymore. So rant away, I won’t be reading, but after reading here enough I understand why their isn’t peace in the Middle East and how organisations like Hamas gain traction. Not one sensible response in these emotional tirades.

With radicals like you on board in the Israeli Government there will never be a movement to peace.
I do wonder however if when you had your "snip" they didn't take a few of the "little grey cells" as well.
The Palestinians didn't agree to the two state system because it wasn't what they were lead to believe they'd get after WWI, They knew that the negotiations with the terrorists was just the beginning of a gradual encroachment even then and boy have they been proved right. It was through the bullying tactics of the Israeli Government and its military, constancy pushing, controlling and greedy that necessitated some parts of the Palestinian leadership to fight back. After all, if the Palestinians didn't have anyone to fight their corner they would be pushed into the sea. Aid was slow to come to them hence the refugee camps while USA money flowed into the promised land in an effort to atone for ignoring the plight suffered by European Jews at the hands of the Nazi's.
Before you climb onto you high horse of being a good little citizen making sure the world knows all about the land of milk and honey no one on these pages has ever said that Hamas is innocent. Both sides have committed atrocities, both sides are guilty, its just that with one side being funded by the faithful in distant parts unable to reconcile themselves with the fact the the Government of Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity and by continuing to send money to the promised land you are enabling them to do just this, the more they take action the more there will be justified retaliation for Hamas.
Palestyinians

 

[Klingsor]

You are all full of shit and of yourselves. I’m surprise you haven’t alleged that the Jews were behind 9/11 and a conspiracy to control the world. Let me just get my tin foil hat.

Ethnic cleansing and no representation. You understand that there are communities within Israel who are Arab Muslims? You realise that there is a Muslim in the Israeli Government!!!

Do you forget that the Jews agreed to the Two State solution but the Arabs rejected it vowing to push the Jews into the sea. Why have the neighbouring Arab states maintained refugee camps for over 50years instead of assimilating them. What has their governing body Hamas done for them that’s good? Their policies are only destructive towards their own people.

Still, as another member said, why do you bother. He’s right.

If you argue with a bunch of fools, it’s hard to tell who’s the fool. I haven’t read the last few drivel’s of posts and won’t be reading anymore. So rant away, I won’t be reading, but after reading here enough I understand why their isn’t peace in the Middle East and how organisations like Hamas gain traction. Not one sensible response in these emotional tirades.

Thank you for showing us how *not* to write an "emotional tirade."

 

[deleted1072631]

Why is the response about Jewish people not being the original Israelites is that assimilation took them further away from their identity and it's the Jewish culture that centers them but not so much the history of the Israelites? Why is the history of the land more important than the values of the Israelites? I love being educated so if you know lmk. Because the establishing of Israel had more to do with wacko evangelicals pushing Christian beliefs onto a policy mainly used to allow the US into the Middle East with an established narrative to get all Christians and westerners on board when I was told that most Jewish ppl in Israel hate that narrative? Why don't they see their involvement with the west as their ultimate demise?

 

[deleted1072631]

Like now, the US doesn't mind Israel attacking Iran but Iran isn't trying to attack Israel bc they know it'll lead to war with the US and Israel. If the US has to save itself from that region during a war, Israel is getting left behind. How does that not make sense to Israel?

 

[deleted1072631]

 

[Andyb2]

Is the Palestinian Authority Facing An Arab Spring? - The Dark Wire

Looks like the Palestinians have issues amongst themselves let alone with the Israelis.

 

[Industrialsize]

Author write for ALL the consiracy sites. His sole contribution to the Washington Post was a letter to the editor.

 

[Klingsor]

Is the Palestinian Authority Facing An Arab Spring? - The Dark Wire

Looks like the Palestinians have issues amongst themselves let alone with the Israelis.

So people don't always agree with each other? How is that possible? And more importantly, how will that affect the Politics Forum?

 

[Andyb2]

View attachment 39561771
Author write for ALL the consiracy sites. His sole contribution to the Washington Post was a letter to the editor.
View attachment 39561921

It always gives me a warm feeling to know that you read my posts.

Pity you haven’t actually discussed the content that was raised. BBC reported on it but I’m not going to do your googling for you.