Italy from other countries point of view

[xavilqar]

I'd like to thank all of you for your answers.
I didn't expect so much of them in really few times. You helped me to figure out a new perspective.
I really can't answer to all of you (for a matter of time and, sorry, for my lack of skills in English language ) .
In short: I understand that, luckily, most of you understand the differences between our history and culture, and even our common society from one side and our politics and problems like mafia, corruption and so on from the other part. You're right. Sometimes it seems to live in two different countries, in which the common people are lazy, maybe chaotic or bad tempered (and also ignorant, for a great part, as Orson Welles and Rousseau pointed out) but basically good people, helpful and with some great skill as art and creativity in general, and from the other part there is politics. I see lot of you don't know very much about italian politics (and this is normal, I think, the world has other bigger problems and thing that are worth to know), but I also see that the ones who knows a little bit of it don't confuse our terrible government with Italian people in general, and this is somehow comforting (for me, at least...).
There are lot of things I would like to explain about our terrible prime minister, but I don't have the energy to answer directly to all of you (especially to the ones who ask for what I'm concerned about...). I could write pages about it and the terrible direction he and his government are going, from racism -the 'suntanned' exploit is just the top of the iceberg, I'm sorry for it Tripod, he's actually sending back people from Africa who search for political asylum in Italy and do racist laws created by 'Lega Nord' against gimpsy, Rom and Muslims- to all the womanizing thing up to his trials and his 'liaison' with mafia and secret societies (he was the 1816 card of a subversive mason lodge called P2 wich intended to transform our repubblic in a formal one and a real dictatorship as South-American. It was then discovered and dismantled decades ago, but now that he's our prime minister he's done a lot of the original subversive plot...from media control and the split of the syndicates up to the endless attempt to dismantle justice and legislative power to take all the power in the executive).
But, as I was saying in the first post, I didn't want to talk about our situation from my point of view. I'd like to hear at what other people know about us.
I really thank you all for your answers. Keep going, I read them with interest (I don't understand all of them because of my English ignorance, but I understand a good 90% I hope... )

 

[jason_els]

Prego!

 

[798686]

Interesting thread, Xavilgar!

What are your feelings on Romano Prodi, and the EU, by the way?

 

[xavilqar]

Interesting thread, Xavilgar!

What are your feelings on Romano Prodi, and the EU, by the way?

Romano Prodi is a former Christian Democratic. He's not one of my favourite. It seems he had some obscure part at the time of Aldo Moro kidnapping (I don't know if you know this part, because it's part of our recent history in the 70's, but did have a lot of meaning for our country in a difficult period). He did mentioned the street in which the prime minister Aldo Moro was kept from the 'Red Brigades' at the time but noone followed this indication in time to save his life. In the following years he was asked how did he know that, and his answers where :"during a ghost session". I'm not joking! Amazing!
In recent years He's also being under investigation in the legal enquiry called 'Why not' by Luigi De Magistris, which is now one of our European parliamentarian, even if at the moment nothing has actually come out (he was accused of corruption and illegal funding to his political party).
Otherwise, He's a good economist -from what I know- and I agree with him for the entry in the Eu money in the first instance (he's criticized for that by our present government). He still is way more reliable than Silvio Berlusconi (this doesn't mean he is so much reliable, but in Italy people seems to be forced to choose the minor evil).
What do you thin of him from Uk?

 

[798686]

Thanks for the answer Xavilgar!

Umm, we're a bit wary of him over here. Yes, he's more reliable than Silvio Berlusconi - but kinda less likeable, lol. Shame he didn't last in power in Italy - didn't his coalition government collapse because of disagreements?

We prefer Berlusconi in power, because he likes the UK - but we think Prodi is probably more stable. Also, Prodi would be be less dangerous in power in Italy than in Europe (he's much too federalist for the Brits - wants a much more unified Europe, which we don't really agree with). We actually think Tony Blair would be too dangerous to lead Europe too, a lot of people don't trust him (can you give him a small job on Sicily, or something? heheh).

What's your view of Britain, over there?

 

[xavilqar]

I see. You know, we're wary about a lot of our politicians here. There are very few of them in which we can trust. The most of them are at least incoherent or ambiguous, while a lot of them are in suspect of connections with mafia or private interest in what they do. But this is our sad routine.

The government of Prodi collapsed because of a lot of problems. It was a terrible mix of very much different parties, from catholics to communists, from environmentalist to liberals. And it has so very few parliamentarist (if three or four of them weren't attending at the Parliament, the opposition -Berlusconi at that time- had more votes and could block every new law). The main cause of the collapse in this case was the opposition of Mastella, the leader of UDC (the new christian democratic party). He and his wife were investigated for corruption, so they retired their support to Prodi and his allied, who press on them to carry on their trials, and made the government collapse. Some months after that, they're supporting the Berlusconi party (again, cause they were supporting him on his precedent government too), and are now representing them in the EuroParliament. This is one of the various example of italian politicians. You can understand why we're so cynical about them.

Yes, Prodi's a supporter of the unified Europe. You've to understand for us a more powerful Europe is one of the great chances to stabilize our economy, and a guarantee of a superior control on our national problem (that we seem unable to solve on our own). Sadly, even if Europe sanctioned us a lot of time for different reasons, the actual government simply doesn't respect a lot of these advice, so we're under infractions for (if I remember properly) something like 77 or more expects. I also understand that Berlusconi seems an estimator of Britain and Uk, but you've to keep in mind That he's in particular good to pursue his own good in first instance. He's at the same time on good relation with Bush, Blair and also Putin and Gheddafi. He's very able to do public relations (a part from his gaffes) and to say things he won't actually do. He did follow Uk and Usa national politics on Iraq for oil, as I think Usa and Uk did...

My vision of Britain isn't too clear from a political point of view. I don't know much of it. I've been there in Reading a couple of time, and I love London very much for its social and cultural ferment. I like very much your laicism and your humour. I'm a huge fan of Monthy Python. I don't like particularly Blair for the same reasons I don't like Bush politics. I'm a pacifist, and I was against the war on Iraq. But I don't know him so much for the rest.

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

Sorry to see Xavi that Silvio is at it again. I can't believe he is so insulated from reality as to not understand how a remark like she's "more beautiful than intelligent," regarding Rosy Bindi, who is the Italian Family Minister, would blow up in his face.

 

[798686]

Yeh, I heard Prodi's government was a wide-coalition of conflicting parties.

I think we do sympathise over your feelings of Berlusconi. He does seem untrustworthy - plus his control over the media isn't good. We like his sense of fun, and pro-UK stance, but wouldn't really want him to be our PM.

I think we do generally view Italian politics as a bit unstable - especially with all the changes of PM you've had over the years. I wonder if the Italian (stereotypical) personality that we like so much - of passion, spontaneity, and fun - is maybe less effective when it spills over into politics?

I understand that a strong EU would probably be to Italy's advantage (even if you can't control your interest rates independently in the Euro) - but it suits Britain more for us to keep more independence. Hopefully Britain and Italy can keep a strong, friendly relationship whether the UK is in the EU or not!

 

[xavilqar]

Sorry to see Xavi that Silvio is at it again. I can't believe he is so insulated from reality as to not understand how a remark like she's "more beautiful than intelligent," regarding Rosy Bindi, who is the Italian Family Minister, would blow up in his face.

I like the answers she gave him after that:
'Berlusconi's far more tall than educated'
and
'Hitler was been elected from people, too.' :tongue:

 

[xavilqar]

I think we do sympathise over your feelings of Berlusconi. He does seem untrustworthy - plus his control over the media isn't good. We like his sense of fun, and pro-UK stance, but wouldn't really want him to be our PM.

I think we do generally view Italian politics as a bit unstable - especially with all the changes of PM you've had over the years. I wonder if the Italian (stereotypical) personality that we like so much - of passion, spontaneity, and fun - is maybe less effective when it spills over into politics?

One thing is the folkloristic personality and the personal sense of fun (very personal, and very offensive in some occasions), and another thing is his political design, which is very serious and very dangerous (from fiscal shield that cleans up mafia money and personal immunity up to racist laws and media control..)

 

[798686]

Yeh, I'm really against diplomatic immunity - people at the top should keep the same laws they expect everyone else to live by.

Also, I think Eurocorps and Europol are immune from prosecution for anything that happens within their work. Well, that's kinda dangerous for a police force to be immune, as they can then resort to force or violence that they wouldn't be brought to justice for. (Not to do with Italy, I know - just saying!).

I notice that Finnmeccanica are quite powerful these days (Italian Defense company, I think?). Are they part of EADS now, dyou know? Also the Anglo-Italian Agusta-Westland is doing quite well.