It's Shallow to Always Decline any Sexual Contact with Someone Who is HIV+?

[AlteredEgo]

I was reading other threads where some people implied or declared that it was shallow, ugly, and/or stupid to discriminate sexually against those with HIV+ status. A point that comes up a lot in these debates is that no one wants to feel like a leper, or treated like the unclean. Another point that comes up is comparisons to other diseases, like cancers and diabetes, or birth defects like cerebral palsy. Another point that gets mentioned is comparisons to other diseases like gonorrhea, chlamydia and syphilis.

What do you think? Is it a bad thing to be sexually (but not socially, economically, etc.) discriminating against those whose HIV status is pos? Do you agree no one should be allowed to feel ostracized? Is there something that can be done about that if you feel sero-sorting is okay, but allowing people to feel marginalized is not? Is it fair to compare HIV to non-communicable diseases/conditions? Communicable ones?

Frankly, I wouldn't knowingly have sexual contact of any kind, with or without prophylactic barriers in place, with someone I knew for sure was HIV+. I think it is fine to discriminate in this way; my status is negative, and I take different layers of precautions to keep it so. As a sexually active woman, I am not guaranteed to never catch any STDs, but so far, my questions, documentation requirements, and use of condoms with new and/or non-exclusive partners has kept me safe.

I wouldn't want to make anyone feel like a pariah. There are lots of groups of people I don't fuck. If you don't think Napolean Dynamite is funny, I'm not fucking you. End of story. Everyone faces rejection. Gay dudes I meet won't fuck me, no matter how hot I think they are. Should I feel badly about that too? I don't know how to keep other people from feeling things. I'm as respectful and empathetic in any rejections as possible, and the rest is up to the other person. Fact: No one can make anyone else feel anything. Ultimately, we each control ourselves, and therefore must be responsible for our own feelings. One cannot ever please all the people all the time, but wouldn't it be nice if one could?

I think comparing HIV to non-communicable diseases is hilarious, and to other contagious illnesses is appropriate.

I'd especially love to hear from those who disagree.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

If I know someone has Any sort of sexually transmitted disease.. which includes HIV/AIDS, I'm NOT having sex with them, PERIOD.

If I had an STD, I'd respect another persons choice to not have sex with me, even if there was a condom ready and available.

It's not discriminating, it's taking care of your personal health.

EDIT: *points down* Yup. He nailed it.

 

[Brisler]

I would also like to hear from people who disagree, because I just can't figure out how that could be considered shallow.

Refusing to socialize with someone who is HIV+ is one thing (and obviously discriminative), but refusing to have sex with said person is something completely different. I don't have sex with people who have STD's, I don't kiss someone with cold sores, and I don't share a glass of water with someone who has the flu, even though I would sympathize with all of them. And nothing in the world could make me feel bad about that,

 

[boyslie]

You have to look out for your own safety the same way you should with any sickness or disease. So I'd say no, it's not shallow. That being said, HIV is a manageable condition. Most people with it these days live just as long as those without. You should be more worried about developing diabetes.

 

[916416]

No it isn't, it's shallow and borderline asinine to call others shallow for making personal decisions concerning their health. No one should be made to feel bad for refusing to have sex with a person with ANY STD, nevermind HIV+.

 

[MisterSlave]

I am not even sure how to respond to this thread. . I have responded to similar ones. I think my views stand the same.

 

[AlteredEgo]

If I know someone has Any sort of sexually transmitted disease.. which includes HIV/AIDS, I'm NOT having sex with them, PERIOD.

If I had an STD, I'd respect another persons choice to not have sex with me, even if there was a condom ready and available.

It's not discriminating, it's taking care of your personal health.

EDIT: *points down* Yup. He nailed it.

Pretty much.

I would also like to hear from people who disagree, because I just can't figure out how that could be considered shallow.

Refusing to socialize with someone who is HIV+ is one thing (and obviously discriminative), but refusing to have sex with said person is something completely different. I don't have sex with people who have STD's, I don't kiss someone with cold sores, and I don't share a glass of water with someone who has the flu, even though I would sympathize with all of them. And nothing in the world could make me feel bad about that,

Absolutely.

You have to look out for your own safety the same way you should with any sickness or disease. So I'd say no, it's not shallow. That being said, HIV is a manageable condition. Most people with it these days live just as long as those without. You should be more worried about developing diabetes.

I manage my diabetes pretty well. ) I have to exercise every single day, eat under 30 grams of carbs five days out of every week, and drink buckets of water. But aside from some thyroid and liver issues, it's impossible to guess I'm diabetic, and I haven't taken medicine in a couple of years. I'm thankful it is not contagious though. It's a pretty hideous disease. I'd hate to pass it on to someone. Feel badly enough my kids (if I ever have any) will be at high risk, especially daughters. If I had something contagious, even a cold, I wouldn't lay with someone who wasn't already infected. And it doesn't get more manageable than the common cold!

No it isn't, it's shallow and borderline asinine to call others shallow for making personal decisions concerning their health. No one should be made to feel bad for refusing to have sex with a person with ANY STD, nevermind HIV+.

ANY STD. Exactly.

I am not even sure how to respond to this thread. . I have responded to similar ones. I think my views stand the same.

Oh! I had looked for similar threads to bump instead of posting this one, but I failed. Could you please link us to some that you've posted in? Please and thank you.

 

[43698]

Detectable or not I am not having sex with someone who has HiV if I have the choice. Nothing against anyone who has it. This is my body and my life it is my choice what I do with it and who I share it with. There is no such thin as pretty good when it comes to aids. You are either good to go of you are not. A lifetime of medicine and treatment is not appealing. I was given Herpes by someone who lied to me. Just having this disease sux I can it imagine having aids. Be smart with your body you only get a few chances in life.

 

[SprinkleMe69]

**snip**
You should be more worried about developing diabetes.

Why is that???

 

[MisterSlave]

OK AE, here you go

I am in the mindset of Auspoz. I find that this Post is Offensive. . I find the nature of this post offensive. . and I agree that it is akin to racial profiling.

Because, what would one use these marks for? (the scarlet letter?). . the Lepper. .

It is called Sero-sorting. . People with HIV already have certain types of discrimination. Especially if they have come forward about their status publicly. No one wants to feel like a Pariah.

When you meet someone, asking questions can be a good thing. . you can ask someone about they reasons why they got a tattoo. They may even tell you that they might be HIV POZ, but. . if they did . . would status alone be the reason to dump someone.

What if you wanted to date someone who had a form of cancer . . or other serious medical condition. Would you dump them because of that?

Those kinds of lines of thinking are shallow.

It is the good person who does not Judge others and it is the good person who has an open mind. You may walk by your soulmate and leave them in the dust because you would be intollerant to someone with HIV. . Just think about that for a moment. Some people spend the better part of their lifetime trying to find their mate. . yours might be right in front of you but they may have HIV or Hep-c. . that would be really sad if you missed your chance at you lifemate. . that's all I am saying. .

then you wrote:

I was reading other threads where some people implied or declared that it was shallow, ugly, and/or stupid to discriminate sexually against those with HIV+ status. A point that comes up a lot in these debates is that no one wants to feel like a leper, or treated like the unclean. Another point that comes up is comparisons to other diseases, like cancers and diabetes, or birth defects like cerebral palsy. Another point that gets mentioned is comparisons to other diseases like gonorrhea, chlamydia and syphilis.

What do you think? Is it a bad thing to be sexually (but not socially, economically, etc.) discriminating against those whose HIV status is pos? Do you agree no one should be allowed to feel ostracized? Is there something that can be done about that if you feel sero-sorting is okay, but allowing people to feel marginalized is not? Is it fair to compare HIV to non-communicable diseases/conditions? Communicable ones?

Frankly, I wouldn't knowingly have sexual contact of any kind, with or without prophylactic barriers in place, with someone I knew for sure was HIV+. I think it is fine to discriminate in this way; my status is negative, and I take different layers of precautions to keep it so. As a sexually active woman, I am not guaranteed to never catch any STDs, but so far, my questions, documentation requirements, and use of condoms with new and/or non-exclusive partners has kept me safe.

I wouldn't want to make anyone feel like a pariah. There are lots of groups of people I don't fuck. If you don't think Napolean Dynamite is funny, I'm not fucking you. End of story. Everyone faces rejection. Gay dudes I meet won't fuck me, no matter how hot I think they are. Should I feel badly about that too? I don't know how to keep other people from feeling things. I'm as respectful and empathetic in any rejections as possible, and the rest is up to the other person. Fact: No one can make anyone else feel anything. Ultimately, we each control ourselves, and therefore must be responsible for our own feelings. One cannot ever please all the people all the time, but wouldn't it be nice if one could?

I think comparing HIV to non-communicable diseases is hilarious, and to other contagious illnesses is appropriate.

I'd especially love to hear from those who disagree.

Now, lets see I am hypoglycemic. . both my folks are diabetic.

practicing responsible intercourse is one thing, but I was talking about (telling if someone was HIV poz) and what that does to people, and what you may miss out on in life. By the way. . I read the posts to my husband, and he was offended too.

 

[MisterSlave]

what if you had sex with people you thought were safe but were not?? hmmm?? people lie.

Oh and your last part about comparing illness. .

I think comparing HIV to non-communicable diseases is hilarious, and to other contagious illnesses is appropriate.

Its nothing to laugh at they are both life altering and have the threat of death. It is NOT funny in any way shape or form.

 

[AlteredEgo]

OK AE, here you go


then you wrote:


Now, lets see I am hypoglycemic. . both my folks are diabetic.

practicing responsible intercourse is one thing, but I was talking about (telling if someone was HIV poz) and what that does to people, and what you may miss out on in life. By the way. . I read the posts to my husband, and he was offended too.

That you are offended is unimportant. Seriously. Welcome to the Internet. The reason is far more relevant and interesting. Care to share?

I have mixed feelings about you quoting yourself here, as you know. On the one hand, I wouldn't have asked my questions if I hadn't wanted to question your post. However, on the other hand, I DO NOT want this thread to turn into the battle of MisterSlave versus the Nays. In yourr private message to me you declared outright what you've merely implied here: You believe I paraphrased you without citation. You are incorrect. I asked questions based on opinions I came across here recently, in the distant past, and on other message boards. Just how many ways do you think there are to express what you did? The common lexicon is generally limited. Also, I have specific questions, not necessarily relevant to that thread as you pointed out. My questions are specifically about sexual discrimination. If you did not understand that, I hope you do now.

As a side note, I have never before encountered the term sero-sorting outside of a sexual context. Has anyone else?

I asked you earlier for links to similar threads. The thread from which you have quoted is not similar to this one. The OP in the other thread does not mention sexual connections, does not ask about judgement, and does not ask about whether or not making sexual exclusions based upon HIV status is shallow. Do you actually know of other threads moralizing over the issue of excluding the HIV positive from one's personal dating pool/sexual cipher, or were you only talking about your one post? I KNOW they are here. I have read them. I just can't find them now.

In this thread, we are discussing sexual discrimination only. Naturally, I think it's ridiculous to decide not to be friends with someone, hire someone (usually), rent to someone love someone because of HIV status. But I would not knowingly date someone pos because I don't want to be in a sexless romance, and I'm definitely not fucking anyone I know to have an STD.

 

[AlteredEgo]

what if you had sex with people you thought were safe but were not?? hmmm?? people lie.

Oh and your last part about comparing illness. .


Its nothing to laugh at they are both life altering and have the threat of death. It is NOT funny in any way shape or form.

People lie, sure. I am extremely promiscuous though. I have a lot of sex, sometimes multiple partners, fuck dudes on the first date, all that. But out of the scads of partners I've had, four were strangers, and I skipped oral with one couple because I hate putting latex in my mouth, and with the other I just sucked it up (haha) and tasted the rubber. Nearly all of my partners have had to show me proof of recent screening, and if it became a regular thing over a long enough period (3 months) I required they show me a new one to stay in the cipher. At any point, I typically have four regular partners. I need to keep all of us safe, not just me. That is a responsibility I take more serious than many. I have pissed off a lot of men, but far more have appreciated my diligence. The system isn't perfect, but it's damn' good risk management.

And come on! You've either lost your sense of humor or your library card. Which is it? I never said any illnesses were funny. Not once. Re-read the very words you quoted, this time without the bias.

 

[MisterSlave]

Ok Fine. . you know what, Ill out myself then. . I AM Hiv POZ. . and am offended. Yeah you do not care. You talk (about) people like me, but you do not know what its like to live my life. You have no idea what I have had to deal with in life. . so I responded. . I didn't WANT to supply the information. . but hey there you go. And yes people discriminate against me. People with the (I would never touch you mindset), may miss out on their soulmate. I am sorry that you would never see love in someone who has HIV. I am lucky I found my man. . . and you know what, I found my husband HERE on LPSG, at this website.

 

[MisterSlave]

The highest demographic for new cases of Hiv is in Hetro women. Yeah your system may be working for you. . for now. . I hope it does. . I hope people do not lie to you, because having HIV is Not fun. Enjoy your fun and games posts. . enjoy your alter ego online, or whatever. . be safe, know your status.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Ok Fine. . you know what, Ill out myself then. . I AM Hiv POZ. . and am offended. Yeah you do not care. You talk (about) people like me, but you do not know what its like to live my life. You have no idea what I have had to deal with in life. . so I responded. . I didn't WANT to supply the information. . but hey there you go. And yes people discriminate against me. People with the (I would never touch you mindset), may miss out on their soulmate. I am sorry that you would never see love in someone who has HIV. I am lucky I found my man. . . and you know what, I found my husband HERE on LPSG, at this website.

But why specifically are you offended? What do you know about me? Do I hug and kiss men who are HIV+? I have, and will continue to do so. I'm just not down to fuck. Why is that offensive? I'm not asking about all the things you are reading in that are not on the table. Why is it offensive that someone is not down for sex with people who are positive?

 

[AlteredEgo]

The highest demographic for new cases of Hiv is in Hetro women. Yeah your system may be working for you. . for now. . I hope it does. . I hope people do not lie to you, because having HIV is Not fun. Enjoy your fun and games posts. . enjoy your alter ego online, or whatever. . be safe, know your status.

Thank you, sincerely. I hope the same.

 

[Penis Aficionado]

I think it depends on what you mean by "sexual contact." As a female, you mean you wouldn't let an HIV+ person use a sex toy on you? As a male, you wouldn't let an HIV+ person give you a handjob? Logically, there's really no reason to turn down an otherwise fuck-worthy person with HIV as long as you can agree that you're not going to absorb the HIV+ person's bodily fluids.

And if you've ever taken a guy's load inside you without documentary proof of his HIV status -- and who hasn't? -- doesn't it seem kind of silly to reject someone who steps up and tells you he's positive, but is fine with condoms and/or forms of sex that don't even involve his bodily fluids in/on you?

On the other hand, the socio-political history of HIV is just such a heavy subject, I can imagine it would totally take me out of any kind of sexual mood. It would be like hooking up with someone in 1954 who tells you, "Oh, by the way I'm a Holocaust survivor." Suddenly getting off just doesn't seem very important, you know?


]

 

[MisterSlave]

People can have Safe forms of sexual stimulation and play. . to pass one over just because they are Poz. . is sad. . (that's why I was offended). I suppose it doesn't matter too much to me. . I got my hubby. and its a person's choice who they hook up with. . I choose not to hook up with ignorant people.

 

[AlteredEgo]

I think it depends on what you mean by "sexual contact." As a female, you mean you wouldn't let an HIV+ person use a sex toy on you? As a male, you wouldn't let an HIV+ person give you a handjob? Logically, there's really no reason to turn down an otherwise fuck-worthy person with HIV as long as you can agree that you're not going to absorb the HIV+ person's bodily fluids.

And if you've ever taken a guy's load inside you without documentary proof of his HIV status -- and who hasn't? -- doesn't it seem kind of silly to reject someone who steps up and tells you he's positive, but is fine with condoms and/or forms of sex that don't even involve his bodily fluids in/on you?

On the other hand, the socio-political history of HIV is just such a heavy subject, I can imagine it would totally take me out of any kind of sexual mood. It would be like hooking up with someone in 1954 who tells you, "Oh, by the way I'm a Holocaust survivor." Suddenly getting off just doesn't seem very important, you know?


]

Nah, no toys. I don't even use toys when I masturbate or have sex with women anymore. I'm not a fan. And who hasn't taken a guy's load inside oneself without documentary proof of his HIV status? I haven't outside of a supposedly monogamous relationship. And after I found out that the monogamy was a lie, I never made that mistake again. I haven't fucked my husband in a year, and I am his only sexual partner ever (in his entire life), and he submits the proper document every six months when his job gives him a physical. If I had ever fucked him more often than a few times a year, he'd be on the same 3-4 month schedule as everybody else. After all, we share towels and toothbrushes sometimes. And then there's this other thing... I have a very nice kevlar vest (somewhere, in one of these boxes). But I'm not going to let you shoot at me just because I'm wearing it. So to me, it would just be outrageous to knowingly expose my cipher to a positive partner.