It's too soon for America to have a black President.

[HotBulge]

This is rich, an Englishman worrying about racism in America ?

The UK may have its fair share of racial issues as well, especially the Indian subcontinent vs. Anglo cultural divide, but I do think that the UK is far more progressive about race matters than the US. I've had 6 extensive visits to the UK over the last 12 years, and I've observed that there is far more of a cultural and institutional response to racism and racist attitudes than in the US. The English have dealt with their colonial past and have several cultures - Caribbean, mid-Eastern, African, Indian, and Chinese - blended into their society.

England , in particular, has 60+ million people and is slightly smaller than the state of New York. The English cannot live in geographical disparate enclaves to the same extent that Americans can. In the US, Hispanic live primarily in the South and the West, Blacks historically live in the South or East Coasts industrial cities, affluent Whites live in enclaves in the suburbs, etc... Americans can somewhat isolate themselves in their communities and not reconcile themselves to a multi-cultural identity...

 

[dong20]

i'm surprised nobody's tried to assassinate bush over here yet

Well, there's been at least one attempt, although it wasn't in the US so perhaps doesn't qualify?

Georgia, May 10th 2005. I suppose Arutinian could have been trying to kill two for the price of one; either way he failed and was subsequently sentenced to life in prison.

On topic, IMO it's never too soon for a Black president. Those who would reject a President based solely on skin colour will likely always do so. That's a reflection of race relations in general, not just those in the US.

Perhaps a better question would be; as President would Obama be at increased risk of assassination simply for being black - almost certainly. But how big a part is that increased risk in the context of the undoubtedly massively increased overall risk he'd be exposed to simply for being President?

 

[dong20]

...England , in particular, has 60+ million people and is slightly smaller than the state of New York. The English cannot live in geographical disparate enclaves to the same extent that Americans can ...

That's broadly true. But there are enclaves where concentrations of a given ethnicity will be found sometimes all but exclusively so. These are typically in larger densely populated urban areas. Outside urban areas of England the decrease in diversity is accompanies by an increase in prejudice.

Of course that's a generalisation and some of the causes for this are easily explained. But, I don't believe it's a wildly inaccurate one, at least in my experience.

 

[HamYai]

I'm getting some flack here, so would like to respond to some of it.

The topic is no more stupid than, say, 80% of the topics started here and no I am/was not drunk.

I know more about America than some may be aware of, having travelled extensively throught the US and we also have these fabuluous mediums of Print, TV, Film, Radio and the internet.

I'd guess I know more about America than many Americans over 90% of which don't even posess a passport and travel to Edinburgh (Scotland) on their way to mainland Europe for vacation and , upon their return, tell their American friends "how wonderful England is".

The colour or sex of your president is of no relevance as far as I'm concerned provided he'she is good at the job. Your policies affect us all.

Might seem about time you got a few of them right, if you want to get personal about it. We Brits are particularly singled out to take the rap for your leaders' foreign policy cock-ups.

History shows that people like Martin Luther King, Ghandi and many others who attempt to create calm and liberal tolerance/understanding/acceptance of other cultures are likely to be murdered for their beliefs.

It's not the sole right or mentallity of Americans to kill their leaders or prospective leaders. Who said you were so important?

But. I stick by my fears as stated in the original post.

If Obama looks like making it to the Presidency..............watch this space.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

And for those interested, I'm of mixed race parentage and married to a mixed race lady and we embrace all parts of those mix cultures, equally, so you can drop the racialist innuendo, guys.

 

[Viking_UK]

That's broadly true. But there are enclaves where concentrations of a given ethnicity will be found sometimes all but exclusively so. These are typically in larger densely populated urban areas. Outside urban areas of England the decrease in diversity is accompanies by an increase in prejudice.

Of course that's a generalisation and some of the causes for this are easily explained. But, I don't believe it's a wildly inaccurate one, at least in my experience.

I don't think that's too far from the truth. Most of the racial minorities in the UK are in the cities, and often in given areas of cities, for instance Southall in London, is pretty much an Indian/Pakistani area. Parts of Bolton are reported as being almost no-go areas for white people. By the same token there are other places where non-whites risk being beaten up or killed. However, it's an issue that we're trying to address, but it's the sort of thing that will take years to sort out. The problem is that everyone has preconceptions of other communities based on ill-informed stereotypes and very few people actually seem to be willing to make the effort to reach out and bridge the divide, and often, those who are are vilified by their own communities. There's prejudice on all sides and the only way I can see to sort it out is to make sure that all schools are mixed race/faith so that the kids learn from an early age that we're all the same.


As to whether or not it's too soon for the States to have a black president, I'd say it's well after time. Whether Obama's the right man for the job remains to be seen.

 

[dong20]

...the only way I can see to sort it out is to make sure that all schools are mixed race/faith so that the kids learn from an early age that we're all the same...

Sadly, in many of those areas where such a strategy would reap the most rewards it's almost the exact opposite to what's actually occurring.

 

[B_Nick4444]

This is rich, an Englishman worrying about racism in America ?

ditto

 

[Viking_UK]

Sadly, in many of those areas where such a strategy would reap the most rewards it's almost the exact opposite to what's actually occurring.

One of the best examples of that which I can think of was a friend telling me about a conversation he'd had with his son when collecting him from school. The boy was talking about one of the girls on his class. His dad asked him which one she was. The son said, "That's her over there, the one with the long hair," pointing at the only black kid in the playground.

There's hope for us yet.

 

[invisibleman]

You speak of a country you know nothing about. We will have a black president and he will be safe.

Besides. I think that it wouldn't be very good public relations worldwide if Obama were killed, don't you think? America prides itself as a melting pot.

If you kill the first black President elect of the United States in history...it will be really, really bad. Rioting. I feel that there will be civil unrest in this country. If you want to further racially divide this country, you kill the first black President of the United States. It will also destroy voter confidence and may increase voter apathy EVEN more. Think about it.

 

[Mr. Snakey]

Besides. I think that it wouldn't be very good public relations worldwide if Obama were killed, don't you think? America prides itself as a melting pot.

If you kill the first black President elect of the United States in history...it will be really, really bad. Rioting. I feel that there will be civil unrest in this country. If you want to further racially divide this country, you kill the first black President of the United States. It will also destroy voter confidence and may increase voter apathy EVEN more. Think about it.

I just dont like talk of anyone getting killed. I understand its a reality as it is with any president. If Obama were eletcted president he would be given just as much protection if not more as any other president. This notion by the original O.P. that we are all in the K. K. K. over here is bullshit.

 

[ZOS23xy]

Not that we are, but the news of the day dictates an undesirable image to anyone who has access to mass media.

 

[tripod]

MLK was not assassinated because of his race, he was assassinated because he opposed the Vietnam war.

Black folk are a bit more anti-war than white people... THAT is what could get a political leader killed in this day... nothing more.

Today's white supremacists are not very white supremacist... they are a "pale" version of their great grandfathers. The average racist is much less racist then his grandfather. This country has been healing slooooooowly.

The average white person actually likes black folk now, I can't say that about my grandfather's generation.

This is not a country of zealots and freaks.

It is a country of WARMONGERS!!!!!!!

 

[Calboner]

Amazing, though, how much Dan Quayle is exactly like the current president. Maybe Daddy liked him because he reminded him of George Jr?

I don't think so: from what I have read of the Bush family history, I gather that Poppy has never much liked W.

 

[ZOS23xy]

I don't think so: from what I have read of the Bush family history, I gather that Poppy has never much liked W.

True enough. But there are websites devoted to Danny Quayle's speeches and quips that make him sound exactly like Bush.

To the point people have taken DQ's words and applied them to Bush jr. Many people don't know the difference.

That's more to my point.

 

[D_Prudence_Admonition_Drightits]

There will never be a "right" time to have a black or female president in the United States. It is just going to be one of those things the country as a whole is thrusted into- up in the face- accept change or whither on the vine.
So was the movement of the desegregation of schools and the voting rights of women and minorities. There was not a "right" time, but we are fortunate that some put their lives on the line and decided the change was coming regardless.

I do fear for Obama's life though. It is no secret that his security had to be increased early in the campaign trail. Just like when there was just a thought of Powell running some years ago, it was mentioned he began receiving death threats. People here exercise their right to free speech and the right to bear arms, but without out thought of consequences and common sense.
Obama knows what he is getting into, but he wants to be the catalyst for change so that the future generations can also dream of a presidency that is not reserved in the "Good Old Boy" tradition.

I saw where one poster was concerned about why an Englishman was concerned about America's political future. Every country should always be concerned about the political climate and changes of figureheads. Our country and leader is a great influence on the world.

 

[HyperHulk]

If Barack isn't worried about it, at least not worried enough not to run for President, why should we be worried?

 

[B_Nick8]

If the Democratic nominee isn't elected in November, that will be reason enough to assassninate myself.

 

[HamYai]

This notion by the original O.P. that we are all in the K. K. K. over here is bullshit.

Are you for real?

Who said that?

Could it be time for LPSG to have an age-verification system so we ain't debating with minors?:biggrin1:

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Are you for real?

Who said that?

Could it be time for LPSG to have an age-verification system so we ain't debating with minors?:biggrin1:

I know you didn't say that all Americans were in the KKK and Snakey's statement was a bit off, but he's a long time and respected poster here and he certainly is NOT underage. You're doing yourself no favours by attempting to counter with such a cheap shot.

I wish America and the international community were intelligent enough as a whole* to have debates about the candidates (and vote for them, in the case of the former) based only on policy, experience and suitability for office - not sex and colour.

* Obvioulsy there are plenty of individuals in both groups that are mature enough to debate the issues only, I'm talking about the 'collective' here.

 

[HamYai]

I know you didn't say that all Americans were in the KKK and Snakey's statement was a bit off, but he's a long time and respected poster here ............................. You're doing yourself no favours...........

Awwwww. Ain't that sweet?

I'm filling up.

Not doing myself no favours huh?

I better be careful who's toes I tread on or don't allow to tread on mine.

Hit me again and I'll bend over, grit my teeth and take your :spankme: like a good little boy.

Is that better?

Have I redeemed myself enough?

Sorry Mr. Snakee for pointing out you made a bit of a twit o' yerself.:ban: