Jay Leno? I'm not laughing.

[B_Stronzo]

4 guys walk into a bar in t-shirts, cargo shorts and flip-flops. They proceed to get hammered and tell really loud jokes while arguing football and sports. None of the women give them the time of day because they are druken assholes so they go home, jerk off and fuck each other...


WAIT...

.........fucking hysterical and too bloody true.

 

[madame_zora]

Good god, that was hideous!

No, you're not imagining anything Stronzo. The thickheads are everywhere- let them think they're "amoung their own" and it all comes out, doesn't it?

Just like with any prejudice, the people who truly are NOT prejudiced don't see how many people truly are. Your friends are probably more enlightened, you probably stop people from making crass jokes, so you just don't see it. Try BEING gay for a week- I mean, just think of yourself that way. Think about having a same sex partner that you love, a life you are happy with, friends you enjoy, all of it. Then go through every hour of your day and try to notice how many times someone is insulting your way of life or trying to make you feel tawdry. See how many times someone's safety is threatened because of who they love, it feels different than it sounds. It felt different to me when I knew my daughter was bisexual than before I knew it.

@Shelby- you're better than that. You know very well that you can't have one group with a huge advantage over the other then say "let's just pretend we're all equal." Heterosexual jokes are nearly non-existant, and gays don't go around beating up heteros for their orientation, now do they? Why would a hetero want to make fun of gays, isn't shitting on them in everyday life enough?

No, the real reason is it's a feeble attempt to distance themselves from "those queers" as if they aren't a part of our society at all.

Who is the Immoral Majority going to pick on when they run out of races, religions and orientations?

 

[Pecker]

P.S. What do you think of my hair?

Awwwww. It's adorable! :wink:

 

[D_alex8]

P.S. What do you think of my hair?

At least he still has some hair.

Yes, it was a whining, prissy, self-adulatory little letter. But that doesn't mean there isn't more than a germ of truth in it. Leno's lack of irony seems to be the main issue here... if he promotes Brokeback Mountain, then he does so as an exercise in mocking. Whether that in turn means that more straight people go to see it and actually do have an enlightening, enriching experience? Good question... working on the level of every discourse also invoking its own counter-discourse. I'm just not convinced that Leno or his team have the brain-power to figure that, and I suspect that they are generally just going for cheap laughs.

 

[B_Stronzo]

At least he still has some hair.

Yes, it was a whining, prissy, self-adulatory little letter. But that doesn't mean there isn't more than a germ of truth in it. Leno's lack of irony seems to be the main issue here... if he promotes Brokeback Mountain, then he does so as an exercise in mocking. Whether that in turn means that more straight people go to see it and actually do have an enlightening, enriching experience? Good question... working on the level of every discourse also invoking its own counter-discourse. I'm just not convinced that Leno or his team have the brain-power to figure that, and I suspect that they are generally just going for cheap laughs.

Yikes alex. Twice in two days!! Scary, dude.

Again- Leno 'and his team' intentionally appeal to the lowest common denominator and it's apparently very successful even (to some degree) among our own it seems.

 

[Lex]

I SO need to figure out how to make millions off of stupid and/or ignorant people. Fuck that, I want MY cut!!

 

[b.c.]

I think with comedians, everyone and everything is fair game (including guys with "unfortunately small penises", Stronzo). And while there are lines that can (and are often) crossed, (lines determined by who's telling the joke, who the audience is, and what kind of joke is being told), we have to be careful of becoming oversensitive to what we consider as off-color humour. I personally don't know if Leno is given to gay-bashing, as is suggested in the letter (I hate Leno anyway...don't watch him because he's not funny) but I doubt that either his routines or his jokes are going to change people's perceptions about gays much, either positively or negatively.

 

[tallguypns]

Some of you may find this a bit preachy, and I apologize in advance if you do think so.

In light of the Jesus thread and the Leno thread, when it comes to making fun of gays, minorities, Christians or anyone else for that matter, I think we all need to stop and ask ourselves:

W.W.J.C. do?

I know some of you have seen this slogan on tshirts, bumper stickers and other merchandise, so let's all stop and think about it for a moment.

What Would J.C. do?

J.C. was a great man and by many opinions in fact god. He reached masses of people with his warmth and compassion. His stories are well known and he always tried to help people out where he could. Would he make fun of these groups?

What Would J.C. do?

Since J.C. hasn't been around for a while, we'll have to ask people that "know" him or at least knew him. Next time you're watching the Tonight Show and thinking of how uncouth the jokes are stop for a moment and ask yourself "What would J.C. do?"

If you cannot find an answer, write to Ed McMahon and ask him:

What would Johnny Carson do?

 

[GoneA]

Some of you may find this a bit preachy, and I apologize in advance if you do think so.

In light of the Jesus thread and the Leno thread, when it comes to making fun of gays, minorities, Christians or anyone else for that matter, I think we all need to stop and ask ourselves:

W.W.J.C. do?

I know some of you have seen this slogan on tshirts, bumper stickers and other merchandise, so let's all stop and think about it for a moment.

What Would J.C. do?

J.C. was a great man and by many opinions in fact god. He reached masses of people with his warmth and compassion. His stories are well known and he always tried to help people out where he could. Would he make fun of these groups?

What Would J.C. do?

Since J.C. hasn't been around for a while, we'll have to ask people that "know" him or at least knew him. Next time you're watching the Tonight Show and thinking of how uncouth the jokes are stop for a moment and ask yourself "What would J.C. do?"

If you cannot find an answer, write to Ed McMahon and ask him:

What would Johnny Carson do?

okay that's just freaky ... just a few minutes ago, a friend sent me something very similar to that in an email.

 

[B_Stronzo]

I think with comedians, everyone and everything is fair game (including guys with "unfortunately small penises", Stronzo).

I disagree.

And be blasé all you like. I live it and I witness it. Again; were it any other minority group there'd be a vast hew and cry. Seems a fairly simply concept to grasp.

I stated a preference with respect to cock size- just as you might (for instance) against sucking cock generally. I don't know your habits, nor do I care to.

When an entire group is marginalized by mainstreaming homophobia guised in not-so-clever comedic banter I say it's downright overt bias.

I didn't realize b.c. that small penised men were a minority group. Have you done a study or perhaps you speak from personal scrutiny.

 

[safetyfirst]

I honestly don't understand why people watch Jay Leno. We get it here in the UK on one of the BBC channels and, unless I am missing something I do not see anything humerous or entertaining about him, am I supposed to have watched this for ages to understand it?!?!?!?!?!?.

As far as I am concerned the guy is rolling in money with a giant luxury car collection and a huge chin living the "american dream".

Sorry, just needed to rant.

 

[D_Elijah_MorganWood]

This isn't going to be popular but here's my 2 cents:
I think Leno is one of the least offensive comedians out there. I've never felt a burn from any of his material. One comic comes to mind who used "faggot" and "fag" in a mean-spirited manner and that was Eddie Murphy. Getting caught with a trans was his karma..."I was just giving her a ride". No wonder he's doing Disney...but I digress. Chris Rock is wayyy more offensive than Leno and I think he's hilarious. Kathy Griffin is straight and white. Her gay jokes are sublime. Margaret Cho can say whatever she wants and gay people will love her for it (her eating pussy helps).

Here's my point: it's just comedy. I don't think of anyone being bashed in the head with a tire iron when I watch Leno. I sometimes chuckle, then I yawn and change the channel unless he's got someone fierce coming out. I haven't met Leno but my partner worked in the adjacent studio for 2 years and says he's a sweetheart and a gentleman.

I understand the basis for this argument but IMHO the letter comes across as a hysterical, fairly well organised slippery slope rant. Instead of writing to Leno, therapy might be a better option.

The most offensive comic I've seen was on Comedy Central about 4 months ago. She literally made fun of every race, color, creed and sexual preference in the room. Her torrnet of filth went on for well over an hour. She was hilarious.

If we want to pick on comics, let's pick one who deserves it.

 

[b.c.]

I disagree.

And be blasé all you like. I live it and I witness it. Again; were it any other minority group there'd be a vast hew and cry. Seems a fairly simply concept to grasp.

I stated a preference with respect to cock size- just as you might (for instance) against sucking cock generally. I don't know your habits, nor do I care to.

When an entire group is marginalized by mainstreaming homophobia guised in not-so-clever comedic banter I say it's downright overt bias.

I didn't realize b.c. that small penised men were a minority group. Have you done a study or perhaps you speak from personal scrutiny.

It's not a question of being blase, perhaps, but of being reasonable. I've already allowed that various factors would dictate as to how a joke might be perceived by an audience. It has already been pointed out, for example, that black comedians tell black jokes, Jewish comedians tell Jewish jokes, gay comedians tell gay jokes, etc. and when they do, they are accepted because the comedian is perceived to have an empathy for the subject matter.

A more reasonable assessment would be to realize that Leno's material no doubt comes from a variety or writers or at least is "run by" a number of individuals any of whom would have probably alerted him if they thought the material insensitive or offensive. It is highly unlikely that it is not subject to the scrutiny of at least several individuals before airing.

Nor does one have to be a member of a "minority group" in order to qualify for having their sensibilities taken into consideration. So men with small penises, whether a minority or majority, may be just as sensitive, may react in like fashion, to "not-so-clever comedic banter."

 

[B_Stronzo]

It's not a question of being blase, perhaps, but of being reasonable. I've already allowed that various factors would dictate as to how a joke might be perceived by an audience. It has already been pointed out, for example, that black comedians tell black jokes, Jewish comedians tell Jewish jokes, gay comedians tell gay jokes, etc. and when they do, they are accepted because the comedian is perceived to have an empathy for the subject matter.

I'll be 'reasonable' about it when the same courtesy is afforded my group as that afforded others (at least publically). In the meanwhile may I suggest you have a gander at that link I posted several posts back. That should give you a window into why this shit's unacceptable to people on the receiving end.

A more reasonable assessment would be to realize that Leno's material no doubt comes from a variety or writers or at least is "run by" a number of individuals any of whom would have probably alerted him if they thought the material insensitive or offensive. It is highly unlikely that it is not subject to the scrutiny of at least several individuals before airing.

Again.. were it any other minority it'd never fly.

Nor does one have to be a member of a "minority group" in order to qualify for having their sensibilities taken into consideration. So men with small penises, whether a minority or majority, may be just as sensitive, may react in like fashion, to "not-so-clever comedic banter."

Boy did you have to reach for that. And, if so they (those 'unfortunates') can address me directly and without fear. I'll state my preference for the larger variety and we can duke it out.

 

[B_Stronzo]

I honestly don't understand why people watch Jay Leno. We get it here in the UK on one of the BBC channels and, unless I am missing something I do not see anything humerous or entertaining about him, am I supposed to have watched this for ages to understand it?!?!?!?!?!?.

As far as I am concerned the guy is rolling in money with a giant luxury car collection and a huge chin living the "american dream".

Sorry, just needed to rant.

God dammit. Is that what you folks have for "American fare"? My humble apologies pollitt.

Not only is his humor inappropriate but his talent is next to nil, his interview skills non-existent. The only thing at which he appears to excel is his inane ability to offend in the most moronic way.

 

[ChuckRich]

I agree with Shelby myself. It's a lot like the racial comedy situation that a lot of you have mentioned already. White comedians don't do black people jokes anymore and if they did there would be hell to pay. But 9 out of 10 black comedians entire act is making fun of white people. That's just as offensive and wrong but its completely accepted and even encouraged by the same people who are supposedly fighting for equality and tolerance when the tables are turned. I'm not saying it's good to make fun of gays, just that everybody should be equally open game for comedy. And yeah most of the time it's offensive and just not funny but that's just the way it goes. If somebody's comedy act is out-and-out hateful that's one thing, but when it's just crass and insensitive ignore it and find some comedy that you do like.

 

[D_alex8]

God dammit. Is that what you folks have for "American fare"? My humble apologies pollitt.

In fairness, Leno is tucked away as wee-hours-of-the-morning filler by the BBC and pretty much across Europe.

Part of the reason I think that pollitt finds him unfunny and Sorcerer finds him inoffensive.. is that his whole show is so watered-down to appeal to the broadest market segment ... that not much substance ever remains. I don't know that I would necessarily agree that this makes his material excusable or any less problematic though, for being presented in a dilluted, non-ironic, easy-to-consume form: which is the distinction between Leno and the other comedians cited by Sorcerer --- they are all "edgy" and the audience knows to expect irony and social commentary. On a show like Leno, it's all too often a case of non-ironic re-presentation of unchallenged 'accepted norms', such as the stereotype that gay guys are effeminate.

 

[B_Stronzo]

I agree a.

 

[mindseye]

Again- Leno 'and his team' intentionally appeal to the lowest common denominator and it's apparently very successful even (to some degree) among our own it seems.

I didn't say he appealed to me; I haven't watched an episode of his show since Annie Lennox performed in 2004. I find his show formulaic, but not offensive.

Your friend came across as an insufferable diva in the letter. In his attempt to smear Leno and call him a homophobe, he cited only one example -- a Brokeback Mountain joke from several months back. He fluffed up the letter with references to Stepin Fetchit, the Holocaust, tire irons, suicide, "God Hates Fags", and his wounded dignity at having been mocked by high school students -- but all of that fluff only adds drama to the letter; it's not evidence of homophobia by Jay Leno.

You slur me by suggesting that I'm drawn to a mediocre comedian's lowest common denominator, but I'm skilled enough in critical thinking to be persuaded neither by your playwright friend's lone shred of evidence, nor your ad hominem fallacy.

 

[B_Stronzo]

I didn't say he appealed to me; I haven't watched an episode of his show since Annie Lennox performed in 2004. I find his show formulaic, but not offensive.

And I didn't say he did. It's 'offensive' (if for no other reason) in its mundanity. That's certainly clear enough.

Your friend came across as an insufferable diva in the letter. In his attempt to smear Leno and call him a homophobe, he cited only one example -- a Brokeback Mountain joke from several months back. He fluffed up the letter with references to Stepin Fetchit, the Holocaust, tire irons, suicide, "God Hates Fags", and his wounded dignity at having been mocked by high school students -- but all of that fluff only adds drama to the letter; it's not evidence of homophobia by Jay Leno...

He's not my friend. I know him not. Who cares how he 'comes across'? His style is his style. Yours is yours. His point was made. That is all. And since you admittedly don't watch the guffawing jackass you don't know how Leno comes across for all your defense of him. I cited another example and if you'd like I'll cite another too.

You slur me by suggesting that I'm drawn to a mediocre comedian's lowest common denominator, but I'm skilled enough in critical thinking to be persuaded neither by your playwright friend's lone shred of evidence, nor your ad hominem fallacy.

My good man. I 'slur' you not. You've personalized that sentiment to include yourself. Now pay attention to the homophobia at hand.

On another note: I find it curious and telling that so many appear to be inclined to make light of Leno's "thinly-veiled" homophobia when on a recent thread everybody concurred generally that other sorts of 'thinly-veiled' prejudice were so apparent on this board and generally in this society. Curious that the real and present existence of the marginalization of gay people in this society elicits such luke-warm response even from many resident homosexuals.

For shame my fellows. For shame.

Where 'thinly-veiled' racism is decried as heinous (as well it should be), the fervor to decry its companion, homophobia, is far less heralded as the "stuff" of condemnation.

I'm the wiser for it.