Jewish Victimhood

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Drifterwood, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. Drifterwood

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  2. Guy-jin

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    Brainwashing is a powerful thing.

    Be it Jews, Americans, Muslims or Han Chinese... it's a goddamn powerful thing.
     
  3. Drifterwood

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    I admit to a certain level of paranoia regarding brainwashing GJ. Am I brainwashed or are those who have an opposing opinion brainwashed? Spotting the brainwashing is extremely difficult and an analysis of why it is done is perhaps of the most interest.

    Take the recent terrorist attack in Lahore. Some in Pakistan were very quick to allege Indian responsibility. Conspiracy theories can lead us to believe that there is no smoke without fire. The levels of claim and counter claim can soon make the truth almost invisible. It seems standard procedure now.
     
  4. Guy-jin

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    Oh, I'm definitely paranoid and try to be aware of it in myself. It's certainly not easy to resolve. We simply must be vigilant in our attempts to remain objective and remember that we are not always right simply because we feel like we are.

    A short side-story, but it reminds me of this conversation I had a long time ago about population control generally. The conversation started discussing China's policy, and then became about other cultures that practice and have practiced it for thousands of years. Population control in a form that includes infanticide as a valid option has been taking place on some Pacific Islands for thousands of years. If it hadn't, though, those entire populations never would have survived those thousands of years. Is it our right simply because we're indoctrinated with this morality that says infanticide is inherently immoral to dictate to such people that what they're doing is "wrong"? Even in the face of their own extinction? I'm afraid I have to come down on the difficult side that says it's not my right to dictate morals to a society that has found it needs to sometimes do this heinous act (at least, heinous to me) from time to time in order to ensure its own survival.

    Anyway, brainwashing came to mind as I scanned the article you mentioned because one of my best friends is a Jewish Agnostic who, as a child, went through the Jewish indoctrination of "fear and fate", if you will. He's told me all about the kool-aid. How they're told from such a young age that the world is out to get them and that they have to hold onto and protect Israel because it's the only place in the world where they're truly safe. And the sad part is that it's all founded in reality, and just twisted enough to make it convincing. Hamas and other Islamist groups help to solidify it whenever they spout anti-Israel/anti-Jewish rhetoric or lob an ineffectual missile into an Israeli hillside. And then about how the Jews are the "chosen people" and that they must maintain control over Israel specifically.

    All of that said, I think there are a lot of additional facets to the Israel/Palestine issue. Take this article, for example. In due time, if trends continue, Muslims will far outnumber Jews in Israel. Israeli Muslims. When that happens, does the violence end? Does portraying Israel, which has a large Muslim minority, as some kind of anti-Islamic evil really do a service to that minority? I think it's obvious that it doesn't.

    It's a tough issue. I find myself deciding that I can't side with either group on the issue of Gaza, Israel, and Palestine. They're all wrong, as far as I see it. I don't see why the whole area can't be one larger country with a state in it that has a large population of Jews. Is Turkey such a terrible example? (Heck, maybe it is.) I don't see why they can't stop themselves from being prejudiced against one another. It doesn't make sense to me. But call that my American brainwashing, if you want. Perhaps it's also their right to continually abuse each other.

    Do I really have the right to dictate how they should behave over there from my recliner in California? I'm not sure I do. I don't see that I have any more right to do that than I do to tell those Pacific Islanders that they must never commit infanticide even if it means their extinction.
     
    #4 Guy-jin, Mar 9, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
  5. Drifterwood

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    Perhaps not dictate, but on a pragmatic level if the response to your involvement and policy in the region is going to lead to those opposing you to fly airplanes into buildings, then you should at least have an interest and a democrtaic say in your Country's policy.

    It appears perhaps that the focused policy of the US goes hand in hand with attitudes opposed in the article. They are easy bedfellows, whilst in Europe we do not have such a specific policy which is why we also benefit from the opinions of people like Lerman imo. As you say, if you can't see at least two sides to a story, you should go look for them.
     
  6. Guy-jin

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    My involvement and policy in the region? I don't have any involvement and policy in the region.

    Perhaps you meant the United States' involvement and policy in the region.

    That, I assume, being your meaning, I'm not certain I can connect the dots between 9/11 and United States' policy towards Israel as easily as you seem to think you can.

    It is a logical fallacy to say that one caused the other. Israel is far from the only factor in al-Qaeda's jihad against the United States. It's a good talking point for them to garner support from the public in the Muslim world, but it's not at all the major concern of the people responsible for 9/11 (specifically, al-Qaeda). Their goals are much broader than simply punishing the US for backing Israel. In fact, it's incorrect to consider it a jihad against the US. In truth, al-Qaeda's jihad is against the West, particularly the Christian-Jewish West.

    Your second paragraph here is a mystery to me. Clarify it and I'll try responding. Specifically, what "focused policy of the US" and what "attitudes opposed [is that word you meant to use?] in the article"? And what do you mean by "in Europe we do not have such a specific policy"? Are you referring to the EU? Or are you grouping the national foreign policy of all European nations to make that statement? Clarify the various "policies" you're referring to.
     
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