John Ensign: Bill Clinton's Transgression Was Worse

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Principessa, Aug 20, 2009.

  1. Principessa

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    John Ensign: Bill Clinton's Transgression Was Worse

    Both Sen. John Ensign and President Bill Clinton cheated on their wives. Clinton also lied in a deposition about it. As we all remember, in 1998 Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives for his transgression. Ensign, then a congressman, voted to impeach because in "an embarrassing moment for the country," the president had "no credibility left." Lamenting the effect of the matter on the country, the Congressman told the Las Vegas Review Journal, "The honorable thing for him to do is to resign."

    At events around Reno on Wednesday, where the senator made his first public appearances in the state since admitting his infidelity at a June press conference, the word "honorable" did not come up. Even though Ensign lied to his wife, his chief of staff, his constituents and, apparently, himself, he plans to stay in the Senate. Offering another apology for his affair with the wife of a former aide, Ensign told the Associated Press that he plans on fulfilling his term. In an interview, he said the distinction between Clinton's infidelity and his own is a legal one. Clinton's acts were "a felony" while his own behavior was simply "a mistake."

    :261: Talk about living in a fantasy world and making up the rules as you go along. This Ensign guy is full of crap. :irked: A mistake? So he gets a career/political do over, but nobody else does? I don't think so buddy. :mad:
     
  2. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Just so we can put it out there before some people try to draw a parallel between the two and write them off as the same thing: Ensign thinks Clinton's affair was "worse" because he was the President of the United States and he lied while under oath.

    So, which is worse... Lying under oath about a blow job? Or having your family try to bribe the mistress's family with a $96K gift?
     
  3. Principessa

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  4. mynameisnobody

    mynameisnobody New Member

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    Apples and oranges.

    Lying to the wife, the chief of staff, the constituents, the press, blah blah are not crimes. Nor are such lies impeachable offenses. Lying in a court deposition while under oath is a crime. (After Clinton, we have the precedent that it is not an impeachable offense - whatever "high crimes and misdemeanors" are, lying under oath ain't on the list. But it remains a crime.)

    Ensign's transgressions can't be compared in any useful way to Clinton's. At least not until Ensign is caught lying under oath.
     
    #4 mynameisnobody, Aug 20, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  5. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    YAWN.
    I take it you're more caught up on the actual act of perjury, versus what was being perjured.
     
  6. rainbowknight

    rainbowknight New Member

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    Please stand corrected.

    One of the caveats to Ensign's affair that was not mentioned was that he used campaign funds to pay for his liaison's son to work for him. After the affair was over, he fired the son. The misuse of these funds is a felony I believe.

    Also, the gift was a bribe. I wish I could get my parents to pay for ass for me. :confused:
     
  7. Principessa

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  8. gjorg

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    Sexuality and Politics should not mix like Religion and Politics. Let it the fuck go people!
     
  9. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Perjury can convict an innocent person. In the legal world it is one of the most serious crimes a person can commit. You may not think it's unimportant but people have gone to prison for committing perjury about their sex lives and personal relationships while under oath. Clinton was fairly impeached for this felony for which he was tried and convicted when he left office.

    None of the four articles of impeachment mention anything about fellatio.

    There is no precedent when it comes to impeachment and removal from office. There is no common law, no guideline, no precedent, and no consideration given to the impeachment process. Congress is free to determine what constitutes, "high crimes and misdemeanors," when ever it pleases, how it pleases. What one president may do without notice or comment may lead another to be removed from office. All depends upon the will and mood of Congress.
     
  10. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

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    Still, Ensign missed the point and he's trying to cull moral favor based on a rather loose technicality. If we look at the problematic act itself, both men committed adultery, plain and simple. Clinton lied under oath, faced impeachment proceedings, but the Senate could not reach the two-thirds majority required to remove him from office. John Ensign has also lied about surrounding circumstances while being involved with the mistress, up to and including the bribe and the misappropriation of funds. To be fair, Ensign would need an equally lengthy investigation to determine if law can be brought against him.

    Still, I think Americans prefer the simple look at the facts. Both men lied. Both men dogged their wives, and I don't think anyone save their closest friends and acquaintances are rushing to defend their behavior.

    In any event, I too find it ironic that everyone on the right was so quick to demonize Clinton for his behavior, and have only reserved a shred of that indignation for the same Republicans who DID the very same thing. I just hope Fox quits identifying Ensign, Sanford, etc. as Democrats.
     
  11. Industrialsize

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    Correct me if I'm wrong. But he was tried and ACQUITTED by the senate.
     
  12. Principessa

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  13. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Yes he was. The Senate merely has power to remove a sitting President and bar him or her from future federal office. They cannot fine, imprison, or apply any other penalty; it's a process unto itself. This is why Clinton could later face criminal or civil charges without double jeopardy. It was obvious that Clinton had committed perjury but as the only penalty was removal, and as it appeared most Americans did not support removal, the Senate declined to remove him and so Clinton was acquitted. Unlike any other legal proceeding in the country, the opinion of the people enters into Senate decisions regarding removal from office. This is why impeachment and trial are described as political rather than judicial processes.

    Clinton did face criminal charges for perjury when he left office. A deal was worked and he agreed to be disbarred rather than have a trial where he would have very likely been convicted given the evidence against him.
     
  14. Jason

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    But they are absolutely mixed.

    Much of the politics of the Middle East is religion. Ditto Ireland. People's faith is the bedrock of their lives, and this bedrock has a political dimension.

    Sex and politics is similarly potent. Putin has taken his shirt off and been filmed swimming butterfly because he knows the macho look gets votes. Clinton got in trouble for denying his sexual relationship with that woman, not for having such relationships. If a (male) politician was ever caught on camera fucking like a porn star their vote share would go up.
     
  15. Skull Mason

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    Nothing Bill Clinton did was wrong.
     
  16. midlifebear

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    First, as a citizen of Nevada who lives abroad, I find Ensign's dalliances most amusing because: 1. He's from Las Vegas, and 2. He's an evangelical who rails against anything condemned in "his" bible. So, as a political twit who has always depended upon playing the moral high ground, he somehow can rationalize his adultrey with a paid staff member because it just shows he, like everyone else, has feet of clay. Well, fuck that shit.

    The Nevada Republicans are a curious bunch. Governor Gibbons was temporarily prevented from using the Governor's Mansion a couple of years ago while in the middle of a divorce. His wife was still allowed to use her office as first lady of Nevada for official functions until the Legislature (which meets every two years) showed up for their usual circus in Carson City. Suddenly, Mrs. Gibbons was out and the Governor was back in the Govenor's mansion. One of the many causes listed for their divorce was "alienation of affection" claimed by both parties. Later, after the tempest in a slot machine was over, it was common knowledge that Mrs. Gibbons had been known to "entertain" the golf pro at their Truckee Valley Country Club. Thus far, no one has come forth with a call girl or state employed secretary with an incredible ass who gave comfort to Governor Gibbons. Still, the residents of Northern Nevada are aghast with the nasty divorce (which still may not be final) between the Governor and his well-turned out wife.

    But Ensign is currently receiving 500+ letters a day insisting that he resign. I sent one via his "official" website, yesterday. I'll probably send a couple more from other PCs before the week is out. One of the amusing one-line pieces in the Las Vegas Sun was that a local Travel Agency (that had previously donated money to Ensign's campaign) sent him a one-way ticket to Argentina along with a note that it was obvious he had some wild oats to work out. Supposedly, Ensign returned the ticket. Still, the guy is a fringe evangelical christian who represents the worst of his type in the US Senate.

    Even for a city such as Las Vegas which maintains a relatively low bar regarding "morality" the general consensus is Ensign has excavated a new low for the City. He's most likely not going to win another term simply because he's been such a hypocrite.
     
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