John McCain: USA PATRIOT (ACTor)

[B_VinylBoy]

I'm not so sure all of your fellow gays and lesbians would agree that "gay rights" is a "lesser issue". Nor would I.

It shouldn't be a lesser issue, but to most straight & homophobic people it is.

All I know is what I've read in his official statement from his website And it says he intends to appoint Supreme Court justices who will not overturn state decisions on what (or who) constitutes a legal marriage.

So, he's against making a federal law banning same sex marriage. That's fine, but he supports many other pieces of legislation that is also anti-gay & lesbian. He still supports DOMA and is against most Hare Crime legislation. This is more than just a gay thing. It's really a civil rights issue here. How can he honestly be someone we can trust to run our country when he will openly oppress other minority groups that are different from him for no real reason besides the yelling and crying of hyper-religious individuals and homophobes who think every gay man is after their ass?

He goes on to say that the family is the foundation of "Western civilization" and "civil society" (only western??) and clearly states that (in his opinion) a marriage is comprised of a man and a woman and of "the vital and unique role" they play in raising children. (No kudos to all you single and same sex parents out there, I guess.)

Nice conservative, old school way of thinking. It's really tiring to hear this being said over and over again, because many people in this world are not lucky enough to live like the Cleavers or the Huxtables. Technically, I should be a symbol of Western Demoralization since I was raised by a single parent. One parent died when I was very young, and the other didn't feel the need to remarry just so our family can be viewed by society as a beacon of a proposed "civil society". And on top of that, I turned out to be a dick sucker. Wow, DOUBLE WHAMMY! But I'd be damned if some governmental official is going to make me feel inadequate because of it, nevermind try to force any kind of legislation to prevent me from being who I am.

This is another one, of many reasons, why I simply cannot vote for McCain.

 

[B_becominghorse]

It of that, I turned out to be a dick sucker. Wow,

OMG you fucking PERVERT!!! YOu suck goddam DICKS!!!! Whatever will we do with you, you lazy worthless cocksucking PERVERT BITCH....I have to go potty now....:tongue:

 

[Redsquall]

So, he's against making a federal law banning same sex marriage. That's fine, but he supports many other pieces of legislation that is also anti-gay & lesbian. He still supports DOMA and is against most Hare Crime legislation. This is more than just a gay thing. It's really a civil rights issue here. How can he honestly be someone we can trust to run our country when he will openly oppress other minority groups that are different from him for no real reason besides the yelling and crying of hyper-religious individuals and homophobes who think every gay man is after their ass?



Nice conservative, old school way of thinking. It's really tiring to hear this being said over and over again, because many people in this world are not lucky enough to live like the Cleavers or the Huxtables. Technically, I should be a symbol of Western Demoralization since I was raised by a single parent. One parent died when I was very young, and the other didn't feel the need to remarry just so our family can be viewed by society as a beacon of a proposed "civil society". And on top of that, I turned out to be a dick sucker. Wow, DOUBLE WHAMMY! But I'd be damned if some governmental official is going to make me feel inadequate because of it, nevermind try to force any kind of legislation to prevent me from being who I am.

This is another one, of many reasons, why I simply cannot vote for McCain.

To my knowledge, Senator McCain opposed the Federal Marriage Amendment. He voted against it in 2004.

At any rate, this has been one place where I've diverged a bit with the Republican party. Do I care about Gay Marriage? Eh, I'd be satisfied with civil unions being legalized everywhere. I think that's fair.

The problem that comes into play for me, I care more about things like national security than the right to say that I'm 'married,' you know? I'm sure you could understand that, even though our political beliefs may be different.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

To my knowledge, Senator McCain opposed the Federal Marriage Amendment. He voted against it in 2004.

At any rate, this has been one place where I've diverged a bit with the Republican party. Do I care about Gay Marriage? Eh, I'd be satisfied with civil unions being legalized everywhere. I think that's fair.

The problem that comes into play for me, I care more about things like national security than the right to say that I'm 'married,' you know? I'm sure you could understand that, even though our political beliefs may be different.

I kinda share the same sentiments as you regarding gay marriage. I'll probably not get married myself, however, I do have personal friends who do want to. They should have the right to do it.

As for our Nation's Security, I'd feel a lot more secure if our dollar was stable. As long as I can obtain the things I need to live a humble, yet comfortable lifestyle then I'm fine. I live in New York and I don't walk the streets looking at every Middle Easterner worrying if they have a pipe bomb. To me, this whole war on terror is about as hopeless as the war on drugs in the 80s. We're never going to eradicate it all so why act as if we're on this noble cause to eliminate something that will always exist? The only thing we can do is help cut down on it, which means protecting ourselves on our own shores. Let them do what they want in their own country. I don't care if anyone hates me personally just because I'm a Black American. I usually don't make it a plan to socialize or even communicate with those who think like a Sith. None of the acts of 9/11 would have went down if we had security and intelligence in place that did proper work to begin with. They didn't just dream this up over a week's time and tried to pull some kind of elaborate fraternity joke. Fighting them over there is just a cop-out.

 

[faceking]

To my knowledge, Senator McCain opposed the Federal Marriage Amendment. He voted against it in 2004.

At any rate, this has been one place where I've diverged a bit with the Republican party. Do I care about Gay Marriage? Eh, I'd be satisfied with civil unions being legalized everywhere. I think that's fair.

The problem that comes into play for me, I care more about things like national security than the right to say that I'm 'married,' you know? I'm sure you could understand that, even though our political beliefs may be different.

Guess you can't get married when Islamo-fascists are blowing up said institutions. They pretty much want homosexuals dead, right after Jews. Now if you are a gay Jew... can't imagine the hatred ;-) Obama and his mindless minions want to "talk it out" with these folk.

 

[Redsquall]

I kinda share the same sentiments as you regarding gay marriage. I'll probably not get married myself, however, I do have personal friends who do want to. They should have the right to do it.

As for our Nation's Security, I'd feel a lot more secure if our dollar was stable. As long as I can obtain the things I need to live a humble, yet comfortable lifestyle then I'm fine. I live in New York and I don't walk the streets looking at every Middle Easterner worrying if they have a pipe bomb. To me, this whole war on terror is about as hopeless as the war on drugs in the 80s. We're never going to eradicate it all so why act as if we're on this noble cause to eliminate something that will always exist? The only thing we can do is help cut down on it, which means protecting ourselves on our own shores. Let them do what they want in their own country. I don't care if anyone hates me personally just because I'm a Black American. I usually don't make it a plan to socialize or even communicate with those who think like a Sith. None of the acts of 9/11 would have went down if we had security and intelligence in place that did proper work to begin with. They didn't just dream this up over a week's time and tried to pull some kind of elaborate fraternity joke. Fighting them over there is just a cop-out.

I certainly understand your feelings in regards to the War On Terror.

The problem is, we can debate whether we should have gone into Iraq indefinitely, but to me, what's always mattered is the fact that we're there now and calling for phased withdrawls like the ones the Democrats are proposing is simply irresponsible. We do need to withdraw our troops eventually, but commanders on the ground in my estimation should be the ones to make that decision, not a bunch of empty suits, sitting in Washington.

Guess you can't get married when Islamo-fascists are blowing up said institutions. They pretty much want homosexuals dead, right after Jews. Now if you are a gay Jew... can't imagine the hatred ;-) Obama and his mindless minions want to "talk it out" with these folk.

Barack Obama scares me a bit. He certainly seems like a nice enough guy, but we've never had a candidate this unexperienced before, and the fact that he was able to defeat one of the most popular women in politics, it just doesn't sit well with me at all. What scares me most -- the man doesn't even know what he's doing. Everything he's said could all be complete BS, and we have no record to look to in order to gauge whether or not he could actually do the job put in front of him. It's not personal, actually, I quite like his personality, but politically, we're worlds apart.

 

[tripod]

Guess you can't get married when Islamo-fascists are blowing up said institutions. They pretty much want homosexuals dead, right after Jews. Now if you are a gay Jew... I can't imagine the hatred!!

Number one how can you be a fascist if you are not Italian? Fascism was never exported outside of Italy. Plus, it is not really a word... the right wing is repeating it OVER and OVER hoping that it will catch on. It is a coined phrase at best.

Number two... Islam is NOT a friendly place for homosexuals, you are right on the money on that one.

 

[faceking]

Number one how can you be a fascist if you are not Italian? Fascism was never exported outside of Italy. Plus, it is not really a word... the right wing is repeating it OVER and OVER hoping that it will catch on. It is a coined phrase at best.

Number two... Islam is NOT a friendly place for homosexuals, you are right on the money on that one.

For one, you are wrong. Facism was in a few European countries, aside from Italy. A fascist can be one who promotes via a number of ideals, including (but not limited to) religion. Guessing you've heard of Hilter. Italian Fascism is a separate type of fascism, that I can't go into specifics on, just know it existed. The KKK is a form of modern fascism as well.

But fine, I'll massage thine ego. Is Islamo-freako-pscyho-looney-socipathic-fuckedup-murderous hooligans better? :biggrin1:

At least the right is calling them something. Left treats them with kid gloves and has to be reeeeeeeespectful of their beliefs.

 

[faceking]

I certainly understand your feelings in regards to the War On Terror.

The problem is, we can debate whether we should have gone into Iraq indefinitely, but to me, what's always mattered is the fact that we're there now and calling for phased withdrawls like the ones the Democrats are proposing is simply irresponsible. We do need to withdraw our troops eventually, but commanders on the ground in my estimation should be the ones to make that decision, not a bunch of empty suits, sitting in Washington.




Barack Obama scares me a bit. He certainly seems like a nice enough guy, but we've never had a candidate this unexperienced before, and the fact that he was able to defeat one of the most popular women in politics, it just doesn't sit well with me at all. What scares me most -- the man doesn't even know what he's doing. Everything he's said could all be complete BS, and we have no record to look to in order to gauge whether or not he could actually do the job put in front of him. It's not personal, actually, I quite like his personality, but politically, we're worlds apart.

Some of me doesn't mind an inexperienced soul... someone who isn't too entwined into Washington DC... but you can only get that with an actor or someone with zero political experience, but know-how. It's the ultra-left position with zero experience. It's like giving Jerry Falwell the keys to the White House.

Hillary couldn't expose him for the ultra left-wing liberal Obama is, as it would shoot a good part of her own constituency in the foot... McCain will (hopefully), as I think people don't have a clue on what he's got up his sleeve.

 

[faceking]

Despite McCain's empty rhetoric about his not representing a third term for GWB, his actual policy positions tell an entirely different story.

The fact of the matter is, McCain is very hawkish and very much a student of the GOP school of fearmongering...and as these remarks make clear, he has no qualms about continuing to disregard the Constitutional rights of American citizens as well as separation of governmental powers.

McCain not only parrot's GWB's highly erroneous Article II justification for disregarding due process, he believes that corporations in the telecom industry who facilitated these egregious breaches of the public trust should be granted retroactive immunity from prosecution for their criminal acts.

So, a vote for John McCain is a vote in support of continuing this pervasive culture of fear and of governmental processes operating in the shadows, answerable to no public authority.

For the record... I know the author of this article. He's a friend of a friend. He's the epitome of a bed-wetting "government is mean to me" lib. I think Ryan actually (our mutual friend is even worse) thinks a black helicopter hovers over his house on a daily basis.

The government can't handle my social security nor my auto registration really well... the most terrorist-like act I've ever committed was "door bell ditch". I say... spy on me, if you can. Keep keeping me safe.

Fearmongering... throwing that term around is hypocritically creating fear about the GOP being the boogeyman. Technically speaking.

 

[tripod]

For one, you are wrong. Facism was in a few European countries, aside from Italy.

It was in Croatia which was a puppet regime of Italy and was under the same sphere of influence of the Italian Regime. The Fascist government of Ustase ceased to exist after the defeat of Italy when Croatia's subsequent support by the Fascist regime of Benito Mussolini ended. Romania is also known to have been under a "Fascist' regime during World War II under the "dictatorial" regime of Ion Atonescu, I have not seen any evidence of Italy exporting it's ideologies to Romania.

A fascist can be one who promotes via a number of ideals, including (but not limited to) religion.

The term is often used by proponents of some ideologies as a derogatory description of their opponents. Mussolini was personally anti-Catholic, but his regime supported the Roman Catholic Church wholeheartedly.

Guessing you've heard of Hilter.

Hmmm... I distinctively remember that Germany's form of Nationalism was called NAZISM, not FASCISM.

Mussolini did NOT influence the Third Reich.

Fascism is a wholly Italian creation.

The term was created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile. The word is a combination of the word for "bundle" or "union" which is fascio, but it mainly derives from the Latin root "fasces". The term fasces means a bundle of rods tied around an axe, which were a symbol of the authority of the Roman magistrates. The fasces were carried and could be used for corporal and capital punishment at his command by the magistrates or lictors.

It is an Italian term meant to refer to or describe the political regime that ruled Italy during WWII.

In the 1980's there were attempts by scholars to use the term fascism to include any dictatorial regime. It is cold War historical revisionism at it's best, being typically used to label and debase anti-capitalistic regimes.

I am fucking splitting hairs here and understand what you are saying...

Nazism and fascism are fingers of the same hand of Nationalism.

You should be using the term Islamic Fundamentalists or Islamic Extremists though.

Islamo-Fascism makes you sound like you listen to too much present day right wing propaganda.

Fascism has now left it's correct roots and terminology in favor of a ham handed way of referring to any regime that one opposes... it's rather incorrect.

 

[HazelGod]

Obama and his mindless minions want to "talk it out" with these folk.

I know the author of this article. He's a friend of a friend. He's the epitome of a bed-wetting "government is mean to me" lib.

Fearmongering... throwing that term around is hypocritically creating fear about the GOP being the boogeyman. Technically speaking.

Deliberate mischaracterization of a policy statement, attacking the speaker in lieu of the message, and a bit of I'm rubber and you're glue for good measure.

It's pretty clear from your writing that you're an intelligent individual...what I can't figure out is why you choose to resort to this intellectually dishonest douchebaggery rather than discourse earnestly.

 

[b.c.]

There is disagreement among historians and scholars as to the meaning/context of fascism, a term that indeed had its origins in Italy. But most acknowledge that although the term can be applied to extreme leftist or right winged thinking, it is the right wing, and in particular the extreme right wing that the term is usually associated with.

Of course it would figure that people of right winged ideology would be spinning others as "fascists" because what better way to demonize someone else as a way of saying that they are not worth having dialogue with, and that anyone thinking of diplomatic approaches with such, have to be equally feared.

It's all typical Republican styled scare tactics, as is the use in the above by certain posters of words such as "ultra left wing liberal" "zero experience" and other forms of disinformation (taken right out of the Republican handbook, no doubt).

 

[Qua]

I'll have to disagree with fascism's misuse being primarily a derogatory tool of right wingers. As a piece of institutionalized spin perhas, but day-to-day I've encountered it more as a insult directed towards rightists from vacuous socialist 18 year olds. Ironic given that my libertarian views are rather opposed to nationalism of any kind, but I'm not a Democrat and I dislike many stereotypical Democratic attitudes and base assumptions, so if I say anything that is more in line with the right...I'm a fascist pig.

EDIT: Think Rage Against the Machine's use of "fascist"

 

[B_Monster]

He's not worth arguing with even about hot air, because he will definitely do exactly as you've said. He lives for these threads.

Neither one is worth argueing with.

 

[B_Monster]

Why do you all waste your time responding to "it"? Do what many have and put "it" on pignore where "it" belongs.Cheers.

Now thats funny

 

[marleyisalegend]

politics are the biggest waste of time..
all these threads are the same, one big war, give it a few hours and this one will be 10 pages long, filled with the usual suspects, quoting, copying and pasting passages , arguing about nothing, and when all else fails, few of you will resort to attacking each others english skills, enjoy.

QFT

 

[HazelGod]

The hope is but a glimmer in the distance, but we may yet see that motherfucker impeached and convicted for his crimes.

It's still a long longshot, and I'm sure this is largely political posturing to retain his seat, but I'm glad to see Kucinich has officially introduced a resolution to impeach GWB nonetheless.