Jordan Peterson

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I've been listening to a few of Peterson's podcasts recently and wanted other people's thoughts on this guy.
For those of you that haven't seen him, he is a professor of psychology that made waves with a tirade against the enforcement of specific pronouns in legislation in Canada (that is his perspective at least). He went viral when students posted videos online but it seems to have backfired as he has shot to fame as a self-styled role-model for young men.

I've read ALOT about how this guy is the devil; a transphobic, misogynistic, narcissist who stokes tensions between the "incel" types and the feminist lobby.

I don't see it. He is wonderfully articulate and whilst he sometimes betrays his lack of knowledge in some areas, he is generally well read, thoughtful and nuanced in his debates. He created two books "12 Rules for Life" and "Beyond Order" which are multi-million copy sellers and he has scores of young men who claim he changed their lives. I always try to see people as being genuine and honest when they make these claims.

Personally I like a lot of what he says. He promotes personal responsibility, achievement, stoicism, having goals and going toward them, holding oneself accountable etc. He is strident in many of his views though in many videos he gets tearful when talking about young men losing their way and not having a positive message to follow. I could have done with a positive male in my life growing up; I'd certainly have behaved in less destructive ways and been more prosocial if I had. I didn't know what to do, how to do it or what I wanted growing up and it took so much longer to figure it out. It was only when I came across the wonderful Dick Sutphen (RIP) that things started to turn the corner for me (he did a lot of acceptance/commitment type work on CDs back in the day).

I think we could all do with a Peterson in our lives. He has his flaws - he got addicted to benzodiazepines, partakes in a beef, salt and water only diet and can be a tad, erm, hostile at times. Yet he knows what he stands for and is willing to speak up when he sees something happening that he believes is bad for society. I respect that, even when I don't agree.

Any thoughts?
 

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much of his lectures when he was a professor are really good . Aside from him getting ridiculed for taking drugs , having an extreme diet , being emotionally sound , and the usual bashing ; his takes on many are pretty good , aside from political and global warming. He's not wrong but he's not completely right either . Lately his views resemble that of a staunch right conservative. I find his joining with the Shapiro team absolutely unlike him . I think he needs a vacation and a review of his values
 
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Dr. Peterson has private business interests... It's a family business if you really look into it.

He was working to establish a kind of accredited school... But evidently has gone the Alex Jones route instead.

His book is helping boys and that's great, I'm not so sure about riling up angry incels on Twitter though. I generally prefer my men with positive Kenergy.
 

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Ooof, where do I begin. He's one of those people who explicitly cater to the Conservative/religious crowd. He'll say anything they want to hear, and never question typical Conservative ills such as: are they really conserving anything, are they questioning the ills of corporations enough, why push women into marriage and then unequivocally always blame women for being unhappy in a marriage and call them homewreckers for leaving an unhappy marriage.

But he's drunk on being the 'authority' and also a very clearly Canadian kind of drama, if you've dated enough Canucks or watched enough Canadian reality TV, you know the tone and the spiel. I finally made myself sit through his show for Tamara Lich and, like, how are you more agitated than Tamara Lich who as a woman was actually staring down everything that was handed to her? Drama queen much?

I'm the kind of guy he talks about, purports to help, and I think he has this incapability to get to the heart of the matter. If you don't actually know why incels are incels, or why 'soft' young men are 'soft', you don't have any useful suggestions to make. Even if he's sometimes, perhaps, maybe passable by today's standards, he would be a tool by older standards.

This whole masculinity thing is so tired and misguided. None of those who's blaming the soft men realize there are supplements that help, and it's also mostly a dietary issue (hint: the Donald Trump diet of McDonald's really helps me). I changed my diet and lots of my thoughts from a loving, not self-critical place, and nobody says I'm not man enough now.

So to respond to the OP: I don't think JP is the devil. However I dislike him just as much, for completely different reasons from why the Liberal Left don't like him. Life is a journey, and noone has the right to say there's only one right answer. Perhaps your takeaway is meant to be incel dropping dead halfway through a game (ooh look at my ignorance, I'm no gamer), perhaps you die the day you (sex and drug addict like Hunter B.) finally decide to get it together. We don't know what our soul came into this life to experience, and it's very shallow and disingenious to just have the default material world success answer of "you need to be what Conservatives call a man to marry a Conservative woman, and have children so they can supply slave labor to corporate behemoths, buy houses and cars so corporate can price gouge your eyes out." Jordan Peterson is not actually spiritual by any stretch of the word, because he only has these cultural portal types of answers for anything.

Was that a rant? I think I made several rants lol. I'm frustrated that people are all either very pro or very against him but neither side can seem to see the heart of the matter.
 
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The heart of the matter is behavioural problems mostly stem from emotional dysregulation... Probably because the parents had problems too. Dr. Peterson's book is really about parenting yourself and earning your confidence.

The problem is the unrealistic expectations emotionally dysregulated men place on themselves... They turn into toxic self hating monsters, they become narcissists, and they project it all over Twitter. For some purging on Twitter isn't enough... And some have thick wallets with which they cause chaos on society...

These boys need positive Kenergy.

Dr. Peterson is deeply and passionately religious. This is evident from his writings. His academic work is consummate and undeniably impressive. He's also an experienced clinician. He absolutely deserves his flowers.

There's Jordan Peterson the businessman and political influencer... That's something else.
 
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The heart of the matter is behavioural problems mostly stem from emotional dysregulation... Probably because the parents had problems too. Dr. Peterson's book is really about parenting yourself and earning your confidence.

The problem is the unrealistic expectations emotionally dysregulated men place on themselves... They turn into toxic self hating monsters, they become narcissists, and they project it all over Twitter. For some purging on Twitter isn't enough... And some have thick wallets with which they cause chaos on society...

These boys need positive Kenergy.

Dr. Peterson is deeply and passionately religious. This is evident from his writings. His academic work is consummate and undeniably impressive. He's also an experienced clinician. He absolutely deserves his flowers.

There's Jordan Peterson the businessman and political influencer... That's something else.
Emotional regulation where?
 

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JP is unworthy of the credit he receives.

He's a bigot and a misogynist.
He's a doctor and has a quirky accent, so the right wingers assume him to be their intellectual champion. I don't find him to be very impressive when discussing most topics, especially those outside his field. He's got some insights in psychology that seem grounded in the literature and are valid. He does a good job of explaining like...archetypes and how they relate to our...collective storytelling. But I don't like how he then takes basically all literary sources and derives right wing messages from it. He's oddly obsessed with like Raskolnikov and the Bible. He's determined to derive "ancient wisdom" or "meta-truths" from such sources but always interprets them with the same political messages. It's nearly like he has a world view and just engages in casuistry that has an appearance like it's proving some point.

But I kinda get it. The "traditional" crowd are kind of starved for people with doctorates who will say mean things about transgender folks, equality activists, women, etc.
 

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The problem is the unrealistic expectations emotionally dysregulated men place on themselves... They turn into toxic self hating monsters, they become narcissists, and they project it all over Twitter. For some purging on Twitter isn't enough... And some have thick wallets with which they cause chaos on society...

These boys need positive Kenergy.
I mean yes, incel and negative self imaged men...should probably learn to not be that way. I agree.

(I would hope we all agree?)

But can we stop treating man children with kid gloves or like they have some type of terrible sickness that only an internet talking head can fix? Like if his writing helped some young men find better habits, good for him and good for them. But it's easy to see how some of these "helped" individuals will then treat his word as some gospel truth...even when he starts with ass pull hot takes that go outside of his field.
Dr. Peterson is deeply and passionately religious.

The Taliban is deeply and passionately religious.

Jim Jones was deeply and passionately religious.

The men who burned witches were deeply and passionately religious.

The pricks going after women's rights, LGBT+ rights, and attempting destroy both our science and history classes are deeply and passionately religious.

Associating someone's goodness or merit with their level of religiosity is the work of morons.
 

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He's a doctor and has a quirky accent, so the right wingers assume him to be their intellectual champion. I don't find him to be very impressive when discussing most topics, especially those outside his field. He's got some insights in psychology that seem grounded in the literature and are valid. He does a good job of explaining like...archetypes and how they relate to our...collective storytelling. But I don't like how he then takes basically all literary sources and derives right wing messages from it. He's oddly obsessed with like Raskolnikov and the Bible. He's determined to derive "ancient wisdom" or "meta-truths" from such sources but always interprets them with the same political messages. It's nearly like he has a world view and just engages in casuistry that has an appearance like it's proving some point.

But I kinda get it. The "traditional" crowd are kind of starved for people with doctorates who will say mean things about transgender folks, equality activists, women, etc.

All I can think when I hear him ramble on with his bullshit:
1694004095236.png
 

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I mean yes, incel and negative self imaged men...should probably learn to not be that way. I agree.

(I would hope we all agree?)

But can we stop treating man children with kid gloves or like they have some type of terrible sickness that only an internet talking head can fix? Like if his writing helped some young men find better habits, good for him and good for them. But it's easy to see how some of these "helped" individuals will then treat his word as some gospel truth...even when he starts with ass pull hot takes that go outside of his field.


The Taliban is deeply and passionately religious.

Jim Jones was deeply and passionately religious.

The men who burned witches were deeply and passionately religious.

The pricks going after women's rights, LGBT+ rights, and attempting destroy both our science and history classes are deeply and passionately religious.

Associating someone's goodness or merit with their level of religiosity is the work of morons.
Dr. Peterson has opinions and ideas
I mean yes, incel and negative self imaged men...should probably learn to not be that way. I agree.

(I would hope we all agree?)

But can we stop treating man children with kid gloves or like they have some type of terrible sickness that only an internet talking head can fix? Like if his writing helped some young men find better habits, good for him and good for them. But it's easy to see how some of these "helped" individuals will then treat his word as some gospel truth...even when he starts with ass pull hot takes that go outside of his field.


The Taliban is deeply and passionately religious.

Jim Jones was deeply and passionately religious.

The men who burned witches were deeply and passionately religious.

The pricks going after women's rights, LGBT+ rights, and attempting destroy both our science and history classes are deeply and passionately religious.

Associating someone's goodness or merit with their level of religiosity is the work of morons.
Twitter discourse is completely sordid... Everything is distilled into dichotomies and false dilemmas. Discussions go nowhere because people reformulate questions to fit their answers. So it doesn't even matter anymore... Plot's been lost before anything already. In a way... It's so easy to crunch and manipulate this sort, and make money off of them. Waitresses are experts at it. Elon's doing it so well, Trump's back on Twitter. The concerning issue is that this type if Twitter discourse replete with cognitive problems is spilling into political discourse. I have absolutely no idea how to fix these people.

Fixing narcissists is nearly impossible, any therapist will tell you how they fired many narcissist patients. If that book helped you become a man with earned confidence, who is compassionate and protects the weak, then great. You are not wasting time on Twitter, transvestites having fun don't threaten nor trigger you, you know that there isn't a worldwide conspiracy to mutilate children's genitals...

Christian religion is about compassion... And particularly Catholics are organized hierarchically, so they can change, and we can observe this. Some other religions are irrecuperable, they'll even chop your head off if you mention them.