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Discussion in 'Politics' started by houtx48, Mar 23, 2009.
OK, star and flashy spin this one. this should be good.
Here's a quote by a JPMorgan spokesperson:
Joseph Evangelisti, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, said no TARP money would be used to make any payments for new jets or jet hangar improvements. He refused to comment on whether JPMorgan had put a down payment for new planes, saying only that any future jet purchases would be part of its normal aircraft replacement policy, and that JPMorgan Chase will repay all TARP money before it makes any payments for new planes or renovations.
Food for thought....recently Obama suggested that private jets were not a good use of shareholder funds for corporations...
Warren Buffet, an Obama supporter said this, "Berkshire Hathaway is quite pleased that I have access to private jets"...as time is critical in many deals that have required his urgent presence and resulted in millions in profits for the shareholders
1. I never defended any companies that were losing money and needed to be bailed out getting bonuses or taking taxpayer funds to go on absurd trips.
Point out where i did.
I stated only that the AIG bailout was a necessity.
Quite a difference between "spin" and fact. I have not mentioned JP MOrgan once on this forum in regards to TARP funds.
Point out where i did.
2. Since you have now brought JP Morgan into the equation, fine. Let's discuss it.
JPMOrgan had net income to the tune of 4.93 billion dollars last year. They can spend what they want on their own planes, with their own money and capital reserves. They are not spending TARP money on it. JPM has over two trillion dollars in assets under management.
JPM currently has roughly $370 billion in cash, cash equivalents, and short term investments.
They already have four private jets. They are selling two old ones, and buying two new ones.
They can do whatever they want with their money.
3. JP MOrgan already said it was not going to buy the jets until all TARP money was paid back anyway.
4. JPMOrgan is buying two new Gulfstream 650s...those are the two planes, at 58.5 million each...they are *ON ORDER*
and guess what? The Gulfstream 650 has only in the last couple of months finally even had a prototype made.
They have not even got into production, and the production line isn't even guaranteed to begin deliveries until 2012 at the very earliest.
so you are whining about a plane that has not been built yet, that JPM has not paid for yet, that won't even be delivered for at least 3 years...
and they also put their deposit down on the two plans *LAST* April and it is non-refundable.
so for god's sake, shut up.
5. Under TARP regulations they were not "bailed out". They got a loan, which is something you have consistently failed to comprehend, in even the simplest of terms...so let's go over this again....
Under the conditions of TARP, Treasury gets a guaranteed 5% interest return annually from JPMorgan. So, Treasury is getting $1.25 BILLION A YEAR IN *INTEREST* FROM JPM
it is not just money thrown at them, you fool. It is a *LOAN* with a high interest rates.
yuo have done nothing but cry and whine and stomp your feet over every little slight, and you, like so many others fail to even understand what TARP is...it is not free money...*THESE* ARE LOANS...all the companies are required to be set interest fees to the UNITED STATES TAXPAYERS on hte money they have been loaned.
GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD.
A 5% return on income happens to be excellent for a government that consistenly runs massive deficits.
so what do you care? As long as they pay the interest rate, and the money back, what exactly do you care about? They accepted a loan, and agreed to terms of interest payment...it is *THEIR* money now and as long as the interest payments are made, and the money is paid back, what the hell exactly is the problem, genius?
The treasury has a rather sweet 5% interest rate from that loan...so again, what are you crying about as long as the government/taxpayer receives the interest payments and the eventual repaying of the loan?
You don't lend someone money, on concrete terms, where you receive guaranteed interest, and then whine and complain about how people spend that money.
you *LOANED* it to them, and they offered you high interest rates in return...
they can do what they *WANT*
so stop crying and learn the terms of TARP before you start your ignorant and pathetically uninformed whining again.
Wow, Flashy - that sure told him! :wink:
thank you, d20
i am getting so sick of these morons.
It is one thing to be critical, it is another to be hyper-ignorant.
Flashy and Star,
In an odd conjuction of the planets, I find myself completely agreeing with everything flashy said. A well thought out piece of due diligence.
Indeed. Well put, Flash.
then if they are in such good shape why did they take the money in the first place and why are they paying $18m for an $11m hanger with a roof top veggie garden?
since you brought it up how is that $250b bailout for berkshire/hathaway coming along?
Hout, I think you should fold here.
you're going to get banned again or what?
1. I mentioned nothing about Berkshire Hathaway (whose title does not have a slash in it, genius) so i assume you are angling at Star here...
2. But in regards to BH, I do not know...how is it coming along? I have seen nothing to suggest that Berkshire Hathaway is receiving a 250 billion dollar bailout. Care to back that claim up with some proof?
BH is fine. In fact, BH stock just went back up to $90,000 a share
Berkshire's earnings per share are at $3,225 per share.
so what exactly are you talking about John K. Galbraith?
with each absurd post, you make yourself look even more stupid then you have already.
so go ahead...tell me about your theory...
BH is one of the most rock solid and dependable companies on this planet.
at the end of 2008, it had solid numbers and balance sheet as always, and huge high yielding positions across a range of industries...so much so, that Buffet has been having a field day picking over the corpses and investing in the types of businesses likely to rebound strongly with the 30 billion in excess cash BH had on their books.
he has invested tons in safe double digit yielding bonds and preferred stocks recently, in companies like HArley Davidson, Swiss Re, Vulcan Materials...
he invested $5 billion in Goldman Sachs, 3 Billion in GE, 6.6 billion in Wrigley, 3 billion in DOW Chemical and he *STILL* has 10-12 billion in Berkshire cash on hand.
he *ALSO* has roughly 30 billion in fixed maturity and 76 billion equity securities and BH also has 16 billion in receivable loans.
Of all the derivatives they have, they have no counterparty exposure, and none of the derivatives that Buffet allows BH to write require collateral posting. Since there is no collateral posting necessary, it avoids what brought down AIG
and, all the warrants he bought in Goldman Sachs which he was derided for, are now roughly $4 away (exercise @115, Goldman traded @111 today) from being in the money, allowing BH to laugh all the way to the bank, while clowns like you howl from the sidelines.
you are a fool.
don't even bother writing back till you have some facts and intelligence to use.
hmmmmmm...let's see...because the government is offering 25 billion in cash, in a locked credit market?
because, dumbass, they saw it as a perfect opportunity to use the money for something else...
or did you miss the whole controversy about how they were going to use that extra cash to fund acquisitions instead of for what they were specified for under the TARP conditions?
i guess you missed the JPMorgan employees only phone call that a NYTimes reporter got to listen to that stated
"Twenty-five billion dollars is obviously going to help the folks who are struggling more than Chase, he began. What we do think it will help us (JPMorgan Chase) do is perhaps be a little bit more active on the acquisition side or opportunistic side for some banks who are still struggling. And I would not assume that we are done on the acquisition side just because of the Washington Mutual and Bear Stearns mergers. I think there are going to be some great opportunities for us (JPMorgan Chase) to grow in this environment, and I think we have an opportunity to use that $25 billion in that way and obviously depending on whether recession turns into depression or what happens in the future, you know, we have that as backstop"
blah blah blah
another typically informed response.
i noticed you weren't able to refute any of the facts...shocker there.
This is the language that you choose to disseminate your financial wisdom? Your knowledge is highly unique in terms of the common man and that is what makes up the majority of the world (like you didn't know that! lol!) and the majority of users on this site. Your financial knowledge occurs in probably one in ten thousand people. You aren't gonna meet any resistance on this site to your knowledge of the world of finance and Wall Street. Likewise for all things Israel.
So don't talk down and be an asshole just because you hold some uncommon knowledge among mere ordinary people. We are allowed to have fucking opinions on anything that we want... you are not the last word on anything even though you usually are. You are immensely intelligent Flashy and don't need to belittle those of us that don't have the knowledge that you do. People respect you all over the place, but don't you want more people to like you?
Flashy, please try to be more understanding of other people's lack of knowledge in areas where yours is strong. You can tell us anything that you want and we will listen when it comes to things that you are knowledgeable about. Just try and not to be so mean about it, even if you don't respect the person whose notions or ideas you are trying to prove wrong.
Be more kind. :biggrin1:
If this financial crisis has taught us anything so far it's the fact that humility and ethics seem to be few and far between amongst the oober rich
what the fuck does jp morgan need planes for? aren't they a broker company?
$2.2 trillion in assets; offices in 60 countries.
Rich people like to ride in private jets... I don't give a shit what the fuck they do with the money, they shouldn't have gotten any in the first fucking place.
There has always been a three way struggle between: finance, manufacturing and labor.
Finance has always had the means with which to cheat labor and destroy manufacturing.
I help make the financial corporations rich by paying my fucking bills on time.
They will always have little people like me by the balls.
I hope that the majority of them rot in hell jets or not.