Jussie smollett and narcissism among gay men

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So, I visit quite a few forums online and I've been looking at what people are saying about the whole Jussie Smollett situation. One thing I've noticed is that I don't really hear people speaking about how he solely invented the attack because of his obsession with attention. There's an old thread here (Jussie Smollett (From Empire) Nudes) with his nudes, which he likely leaked himself again for attention. Someone in that thread also mention that Jussie asked his driver to pick him up and drive him about 100 ft to a drop off location, which sounds ridiculous but given this recent situation, it sounds exactly like something Jussie would do.

Now, I've met a number of gay men just like Jussie. Completely obsessed with attention from men, and frankly any gender that will give them the attention they desperately feed off of. They are the ones who are usually over the top and loud at brunch, or quiet with obscenely tight and or skimpy clothes on in public. They are the one with public instagram pages with nothing but selfies and lots of semi-nude photos. They are the ones constantly on Grindr with heavily filtered pictures that don't reflect how they truly look in reality. They are the ones that make up lies about who they hooked up with when in actuality they've never had sex with that person.

The list goes on but one thing I've noticed that all these men have in common is their narcissism. They are nothing but stunt queens, who are so obsessed with attention and their make believe "spot light" to the point that it clouds their reality and in Jussie's case, their efforts can backfire. I wanted to know if I'm the only one who sees it like this because I don't really see other gay guys noticing this. However, sometimes I feel like certain damaging behaviors have become such a normalcy among gay men that nowadays a lot of gay men either don't notice these behaviors as being wrong or notice it but don't call it out.
 

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So, I visit quite a few forums online and I've been looking at what people are saying about the whole Jussie Smollett situation. One thing I've noticed is that I don't really hear people speaking about how he solely invented the attack because of his obsession with attention. There's an old thread here (Jussie Smollett (From Empire) Nudes) with his nudes, which he likely leaked himself again for attention. Someone in that thread also mention that Jussie asked his driver to pick him up and drive him about 100 ft to a drop off location, which sounds ridiculous but given this recent situation, it sounds exactly like something Jussie would do.

Now, I've met a number of gay men just like Jussie. Completely obsessed with attention from men, and frankly any gender that will give them the attention they desperately feed off of. They are the ones who are usually over the top and loud at brunch, or quiet with obscenely tight and or skimpy clothes on in public. They are the one with public instagram pages with nothing but selfies and lots of semi-nude photos. They are the ones constantly on Grindr with heavily filtered pictures that don't reflect how they truly look in reality. They are the ones that make up lies about who they hooked up with when in actuality they've never had sex with that person.

The list goes on but one thing I've noticed that all these men have in common is their narcissism. They are nothing but stunt queens, who are so obsessed with attention and their make believe "spot light" to the point that it clouds their reality and in Jussie's case, their efforts can backfire. I wanted to know if I'm the only one who sees it like this because I don't really see other gay guys noticing this. However, sometimes I feel like certain damaging behaviors have become such a normalcy among gay men that nowadays a lot of gay men either don't notice these behaviors as being wrong or notice it but don't call it out.

This has nothing to do with gay. It has a lot to do with narcissism but the two are not related. In the social media driven industry this guy is in, attention is everything. If he was perceived as a victim he is harder to eliminate from the show and worth more money. Greed. It knows no gender or orientation.
 
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This has nothing to do with gay. It has a lot to do with narcissism but the two are not related. In the social media driven industry this guy is in, attention is everything. If he was perceived as a victim he is harder to eliminate from the show and worth more money. Greed. It knows no gender or orientation.

I completely disagree and in fact I knew someone gay, such as yourself, would try to say exactly this. As minorities who are discriminated against by societies at large, gay people do not like to discuss ANYTHING that draws attention to certain negative behaviors that run rampant amongst themselves. This is because there is already so much negativity associated to homosexuality that gay people are tired and would rather focus on the positivity. I am black American, and for black people in the United States it is the same. You cannot mention the high out of wedlock statistics among black Americans without another black person chiming in and saying, "Not all black people blah blah blah," or, "Other races do it too, race and out of wedlock statistics are not related blah blah blah."

So, no "Keenobserver" (ironic username), it DOES have to do with him being gay and the two ARE related. It's just unfortunate that so many people don't OBSERVE the behavior of a lot of gay men to actually be able to make the connection.
 

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I completely disagree and in fact I knew someone gay, such as yourself, would try to say exactly this. As minorities who are discriminated against by societies at large, gay people do not like to discuss ANYTHING that draws attention to certain negative behaviors that run rampant amongst themselves. This is because there is already so much negativity associated to homosexuality that gay people are tired and would rather focus on the positivity. I am black American, and for black people in the United States it is the same. You cannot mention the high out of wedlock statistics among black Americans without another black person chiming in and saying, "Not all black people blah blah blah," or, "Other races do it too, race and out of wedlock statistics are not related blah blah blah."

So, no "Keenobserver" (ironic username), it DOES have to do with him being gay and the two ARE related. It's just unfortunate that so many people don't OBSERVE the behavior of a lot of gay men to actually be able to make the connection.

Proving again my long held belief that one should never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes my time, and annoys the pig.
 
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Proving again my long held belief that one should never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes my time, and annoys the pig.

Proving again my long held belief that those who are discriminated against never want to discuss negative behaviors within their groups. Keen observer you are not, yet unfortunately LPSG does not allow users to change their screen names.
 

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Proving again my long held belief that those who are discriminated against never want to discuss negative behaviors within their groups. Keen observer you are not, yet unfortunately LPSG does not allow users to change their screen names.

I don’t know what you’re trying to achieve here.

You created a thread ranting about a lot of gay men being narcissistic and desperate for attentions. And another user pointed out that narcissism isn’t a gay trait nor is it related to being gay.

Then you went all drama queen like and played the victim card, accusing people not being sensitive to minorities and the struggles that you have to deal with.

You may not like to hear this, but you are narcisistic, thinking that your own personal opinion is more valid than others and started insulting people for disagreeing with you.

Some people are narcisitic whether they are gay or not. Gay people are just people like any other human being, we are all different. If you are only seeing narcissisms among your gay friends or the people around you. It’s more about you and your social circle that you’re in. I certainly don’t see any of my gay friends behaving that way, they’re just normal blokes working 9 to 5 during the week, go out fishing and enjoying a nice beer on the weekend.

You should focus less on other people’s social media and instagram posts and more on yourself. It’s none of your business what other people are doing with their life, whether they are narcisistic or not, just as long they aren’t hurting anyone.

If you are feeling that you’re being discriminated and wanted to discuss about negativity towards minority. You could invest your time and attend one of those social groups that help to improve and raise awareness for minority folks (whether they are gay, trans, bi or straight) in the community.

Stop playing the victim card and feel like the world discrimited against you because you’re black/white/yellow/purple or gay/bi/trans. The world doesn’t owe you anything. There are plenty of people out there in the world who are having it much worse than you. There are people still being born into slavery, human trafficking, living in poverty with no fresh water, fleeing for their lives or trying to survive in a war torn country. I hazard to guess that you haven’t venture outside your own country and haven’t seen much of the ways other people are living in the rest of the world. If you had, you wouldn’t be ranting about such petty things.

The fact is, this world values people with money and good looks. If you have one or both of these qualities, then the world is your oyster. If you don’t possess either one of these. Well you can join the club with 99% of world’s population.
 
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I don’t know what you’re trying to achieve here.

You created a thread ranting about a lot of gay men being narcissistic and desperate for attentions. And another user pointed out that narcissism isn’t a gay trait nor is it related to being gay.

Then you went all drama queen like and played the victim card, accusing people not being sensitive to minorities and the struggles that you have to deal with.

You may not like to hear this, but you are narcisistic, thinking that your own personal opinion is more valid than others and started insulting people for disagreeing with you.

Some people are narcisitic whether they are gay or not. Gay people are just people like any other human being, we are all different. If you are only seeing narcissisms among your gay friends or the people around you. It’s more about you and your social circle that you’re in. I certainly don’t see any of my gay friends behaving that way, they’re just normal blokes working 9 to 5 during the week, go out fishing and enjoying a nice beer on the weekend.

You should focus less on other people’s social media and instagram posts and more on yourself. It’s none of your business what other people are doing with their life, whether they are narcisistic or not, just as long they aren’t hurting anyone.

If you are feeling that you’re being discriminated and wanted to discuss about negativity towards minority. You could invest your time and attend one of those social groups that help to improve and raise awareness for minority folks (whether they are gay, trans, bi or straight) in the community.

Stop playing the victim card and feel like the world discrimited against you because you’re black/white/yellow/purple or gay/bi/trans. The world doesn’t owe you anything. There are plenty of people out there in the world who are having it much worse than you. There are people still being born into slavery, human trafficking, living in poverty with no fresh water, fleeing for their lives or trying to survive in a war torn country. I hazard to guess that you haven’t venture outside your own country and haven’t seen much of the ways other people are living in the rest of the world. If you had, you wouldn’t be ranting about such petty things.

The fact is, this world values people with money and good looks. If you have one or both of these qualities, then the world is your oyster. If you don’t possess either one of these. Well you can join the club with 99% of world’s population.

@tito21 , you incorrectly assumed quite a lot in your post. First off, I did not go all "drama queen" as you put it. Again, I will respectfully repeat to you just as I did with keenobserver, that gay people do not like to discuss negative behaviors amongst themselves. In fact, I'd like it if the next time that you reply to my response, if you could at least give me one (just one) negative behavior that you have observed among gay men. I guarantee you it will be hard for you to do because you, like keenobserver, strike me as the "not all gays" type. Your stance completely dismisses the many negative behaviors that we see among gay men, which you even alluded to by saying: "If you are only seeing narcissisms among your gay friends or the people around you. It’s more about you and your social circle that you’re in. You should focus less on other people’s social media and instagram posts and more on yourself." Therefore, you are aware that these behaviors indeed exist among some gay men, but you moved around the elephant in the room by saying that's it's more so about the people that you surround yourself with. I already know this. Does that not make me allowed to pinpoint certain behavior that I've noticed in others? I don't think it does, which again give me the impression that you (like a number of gay men I've chatted with) really do not like to discuss anything negative.

And for the record, I don't even have any social media accounts so you're wrong on that - an incorrect assumption. And further, no, I actually don't have many gay friends nor do I hang around lots of gay people. I stopped doing that once I started noticing rampant negative behavior in many gay spaces that you seem to be unaware of (and by unaware of I mean ignore). So again, you've made an incorrect assumption. The majority of the people in my circle are straight men and women.

And to your last point about how the world values people with money and good looks, I don't know where you were going with this because it completely fed into what I just said about Jussie. He has good looks (relatively), he has money (relatively), so why did he completely make up his attack? The answer is because he was seeking attention, just like I said in my original post. I want you to go back and re-read what I wrote before you write to me again in multiple paragraphs filled with nothing but assumptions. I understand that the internet is for everyone, yet it's unfortunate that not everyone who contributes to discussions online is able to conceptually understand social behaviors among certain populations.
 
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Certainly in classic Freudian theory, homosexuality and narcissism were entwined - narcissistic personality disorder was held to be intrinsic to our make-up due to maladaptive psychosexual development. That view of homosexuality as pathology is no longer supported by the medical profession.

Anyway, I'm beautiful and I won’t hear a word against me ;
 

MisterB

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Ya know, I'm kinda getting tired of the same ol' gays are *whatever* trope. Because we are not. Painting any demographic with a board brush just splatters those of us who are NOT of that particular picture being painted.

I've known a lot of narcissistic people over my life. My life experience tells me they have been straight, gay, bi-sexual, asexual; male, female and yup, those in transition; white, black, brown and every color in between.

Jussie Smollett may be a lot of things. But do we really know him? No. We've not met him; so we don't know him. We only know of him. And that's what this thread seems to be based on. Opinions of the OP about Mr. Smollett. That are not based in real-world, I know him experience.

This event and its aftermath has led me to the conclusion that Mr. Smollett is a troubled soul. And I form that opinion solely on what I've read in various new sources since the alleged attack. Because I don't know him, I can't speculate his motivation for this event. Maybe he is narcissistic. Or is struggling internally with something. Or has mental issues. I don't know. Only Mr. Smollett does, and until he expresses that, we're clueless about his motivation.

I'll be candid: When I first learned of the *attack*, I was immediately suspicious. Because I couldn't make sense of why anyone of his celebrity, regardless of race, would be out by himself on the streets of Chicago at 2:00 am? Wouldn't they be in a Limo or Uber being transported from door-to-door? My first thought that he had hooked up with some dude and it had gone wrong. Hence his claim of attack. But now I know I was wrong.

Even IF this event had unfolded as Mr. Smollett claimed, why was he so recalcitrant in giving the police his phone? I can't imagine an innocent person would have flinched about any level of cooperation with the authorities; yet it seemed that Mr. Smollett has struggled with that.

That said, I will follow this case through its conclusion. And if Mr. Smollett is found to have indeed orchestrated this *attack*, then let the chips fall where they may. A 36 year old MAN should know better; you should have the maturity and faculties at that age to think such a scheme through. Including envisioning the worst case scenario.

Which I think Mr. Smollett failed to do. Now that he's faced with the worst case scenario of this situation. Potential loss, or at least a significant setback, of his show business career. What other outcome was he expecting? That the police wouldn't investigate? Wouldn't pursue the truth? That's what troubles me with Mr. Smollett. His thought process was flawed in this case.

I do wish Mr. Smollett well; he is a talented young man. I do hope he is able to get any help he may need to get through this situation. Right now I'm just sad for him.
 
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Certainly in classic Freudian theory, homosexuality and narcissism were entwined - narcissistic personality disorder was held to be intrinsic to our make-up due to maladaptive psychosexual development. That view of homosexuality as pathology is no longer supported by the medical profession.

Anyway, I'm beautiful and I won’t hear a word against me ;

I believe Sigmund Freud was more or less correct to be honest. There's a reason why a certain subset of gay men are nicknamed, "Adonises".


Ya know, I'm kinda getting tired of the same ol' gays are *whatever* trope. Because we are not. Painting any demographic with a board brush just splatters those of us who are NOT of that particular picture being painted.

I've known a lot of narcissistic people over my life. My life experience tells me they have been straight, gay, bi-sexual, asexual; male, female and yup, those in transition; white, black, brown and every color in between.

Jussie Smollett may be a lot of things. But do we really know him? No. We've not met him; so we don't know him. We only know of him. And that's what this thread seems to be based on. Opinions of the OP about Mr. Smollett. That are not based in real-world, I know him experience.

This event and its aftermath has led me to the conclusion that Mr. Smollett is a troubled soul. And I form that opinion solely on what I've read in various new sources since the alleged attack. Because I don't know him, I can't speculate his motivation for this event. Maybe he is narcissistic. Or is struggling internally with something. Or has mental issues. I don't know. Only Mr. Smollett does, and until he expresses that, we're clueless about his motivation.

I'll be candid: When I first learned of the *attack*, I was immediately suspicious. Because I couldn't make sense of why anyone of his celebrity, regardless of race, would be out by himself on the streets of Chicago at 2:00 am? Wouldn't they be in a Limo or Uber being transported from door-to-door? My first thought that he had hooked up with some dude and it had gone wrong. Hence his claim of attack. But now I know I was wrong.

Even IF this event had unfolded as Mr. Smollett claimed, why was he so recalcitrant in giving the police his phone? I can't imagine an innocent person would have flinched about any level of cooperation with the authorities; yet it seemed that Mr. Smollett has struggled with that.

That said, I will follow this case through its conclusion. And if Mr. Smollett is found to have indeed orchestrated this *attack*, then let the chips fall where they may. A 36 year old MAN should know better; you should have the maturity and faculties at that age to think such a scheme through. Including envisioning the worst case scenario.

Which I think Mr. Smollett failed to do. Now that he's faced with the worst case scenario of this situation. Potential loss, or at least a significant setback, of his show business career. What other outcome was he expecting? That the police wouldn't investigate? Wouldn't pursue the truth? That's what troubles me with Mr. Smollett. His thought process was flawed in this case.

I do wish Mr. Smollett well; he is a talented young man. I do hope he is able to get any help he may need to get through this situation. Right now I'm just sad for him.

MisterB, you like the others here, need to get out of this "not all gays blah blah blah" stance. You really do. I never said ALL gays. I simply said that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among gay men. I did not say that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among ALL gay men. That would be ridiculous. I'm gay and I find attention on me to be a very uncomfortable experience.

I honestly think it's a bit ridiculous that there are men in this thread who claim to be gay yet have no idea what I'm talking about. I really think it goes back to what I have bolded in your comment that: "I'm kinda getting tired of the same ol' gays are *whatever* trope. Because we are not." We get it, not all gays. Ok got it, now onto the meat of the issue. Let's not sit here and act like none of us have ever met gay men who constantly seek attention by whatever means necessary. Let's not act like we've never seen gay men on Grindr with profiles that say, "Deleting this App Soon," or, "This App Sucks," or "Guys on This App Suck," yet they continue to stay on Grindr. Those are all clear attention seeking motives done by gay men on a gay app. Now, did I just say that ALL gay men on Grindr do this? No, I did not. Again, I'm just bringing up a point that a number of gay men are obsessed with attention from others. Now, let's move on to the real world since some here like to claim that they don't use apps and that apps are not a good representation of gays (even though they are because the internet allows unfiltered opinions). Let's discuss that one gay guy that we've all seen before at the gym that wears very obscene clothes. Do you think he's showing of his body so that other men ask him about his workout routine or do you think he's going to the gym in search of dick, or maybe both? A two-for-one deal? Regardless, it's an extreme form of attention seeking behavior. Let's discuss the traditional Sunday gay brunch after a late Saturday night of intoxication. They're being loud, they're eyeing every decent looking guy that comes into the establishment like a wild pack of hyenas, they're getting on the waiter's/waitresses' nerves. Again, attention seeking behavior. And before anyone makes a comment about this, I have never hung out with a gay crowd like this, I have only seen and and witnessed such behavior.

Lastly, we can only look at the behavior of a number of gay men (again I did not say "all") on Instagram to really and truly see attention seeking behavior. I'm not quite sure why people are having an issue with and being obtuse towards this behavior among some (not all) gay men and then not applying it to Jussie's case. It's just that Jussie did it on a grande scale and now the police are involved because his attention-seeking behavior backfired.
 
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I believe Sigmund Freud was more or less correct to be honest. There's a reason why a certain subset of gay men are nicknamed, "Adonises".




MisterB, you like the others here, need to get out of this "not all gays blah blah blah" stance. You really do. I never said ALL gays. I simply said that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among gay men. I did not say that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among ALL gay men. That would be ridiculous. I'm gay and I find attention on me to be a very uncomfortable experience.

I honestly think it's a bit ridiculous that there are men in this thread who claim to be gay yet have no idea what I'm talking about. I really think it goes back to what I have bolded in your comment that: "I'm kinda getting tired of the same ol' gays are *whatever* trope. Because we are not." We get it, not all gays. Ok got it, now onto the meat of the issue. Let's not sit here and act like none of us have ever met gay men who constantly seek attention by whatever means necessary. Let's not act like we've never seen gay men on Grindr with profiles that say, "Deleting this App Soon," or, "This App Sucks," or "Guys on This App Suck," yet they continue to stay on Grindr. Those are all clear attention seeking motives done by gay men on a gay app. Now, did I just say that ALL gay men on Grindr do this? No, I did not. Again, I'm just bringing up a point that a number of gay men are obsessed with attention from others. Now, let's move on to the real world since some here like to claim that they don't use apps and that apps are not a good representation of gays (even though they are because the internet allows unfiltered opinions). Let's discuss that one gay guy that we've all seen before at the gym that wears very obscene clothes. Do you think he's showing of his body so that other men ask him about his workout routine or do you think he's going to the gym in search of dick, or maybe both? A two-for-one deal? Regardless, it's an extreme form of attention seeking behavior. Let's discuss the traditional Sunday gay brunch after a late Saturday night of intoxication. They're being loud, they're eyeing every decent looking guy that comes into the establishment like a wild pack of hyenas, they're getting on the waiter's/waitresses' nerves. Again, attention seeking behavior. And before anyone makes a comment about this, I have never hung out with a gay crowd like this, I have only seen and and witnessed such behavior.

Lastly, we can only look at the behavior of a number of gay men (again I did not say "all") on Instagram to really and truly see attention seeking behavior. I'm not quite sure why people are having an issue with and being obtuse towards this behavior among some (not all) gay men and then not applying it to Jussie's case. It's just that Jussie did it on a grande scale and now the police are involved because his attention-seeking behavior backfired.
Well, I think you are painting rather broadly here. If you believe Freud, narcissism is a personality disorder that is part of the gay psyche so that's more than just some annoying or 'negative behavior' by some gays, it's a pathology intrinsic to all. I get what you’re saying about oppressed minorities being unwilling to hear any self-criticism but I do find you almost relentlessly negative about gays in so many threads. Your language is so puritan too - “night of intoxication”, “very obscene clothes” etc - do you come from a church background? There's a kind of religiosity to all this that's quite alien to me. Truthfully, I just haven’t experienced what you have. Never heard of the “traditional Sunday gay brunch” let alone been on one. None of my gay friends behave as you describe how gays behave. I guess our 'real worlds' are totally different.
 

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MisterB, you like the others here, need to get out of this "not all gays blah blah blah" stance. You really do. I never said ALL gays. I simply said that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among gay men. I did not say that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among ALL gay men. That would be ridiculous. I'm gay and I find attention on me to be a very uncomfortable experience.

I *don't* need to do anything. Just as you are entitled to express your opinion, so am I. And both are based on our respective life experiences. Buy my life experiences DO NOT mirror yours. At all. How would they: I'm a 65-year old White dude who came out in 1973. I know gay culture. I know gay life. I lived it. And I'm one of the fortunate ones to be here to talk about it.

You are correct: You did not explicitly use the word *ALL*; but it was heavily implied IMO. You've supported my opinion of that with the sentence I bolded above. That was my exact interpretation based on your entire post.

So yes, Nellon, I am tired of folks lumping gay men into some convenient one size fits all niche. And I'm especially aggrieved when done by a fellow gay man; one whose experiences are markedly different from mine. Because it is nowhere near anything factual to me. Based on MY life experience. And I'll bet that of other gay men. That's MY point. Period.

In fact, @hunghorse30 just made this same point in his post #11:

Truthfully, I just haven’t experienced what you have. Never heard of the “traditional Sunday gay brunch” let alone been on one. None of my gay friends behave as you describe how gays behave. I guess our 'real worlds' are totally different.

I would ask that you please do not try and speak for most or all gay men; you don't know them. Neither do I. That's why I went on to explain the why in the very next short paragraph. Because context is important. Had I only posted the first two sentences of my post you are quoting, then you would perhaps have a valid point. But I didn't. And you don't.

I purposely went on the provide my thoughts in several more paragraphs. Hoping the entire post would be considered rather than taking a sentence or two out of the context of the entire post. It wasn't. And that's why I'm even responding to you now.

You are entitled to your opinion. As am I. However, neither of us is entitled to speak on behalf of particular demographic. Even one that we are part of. At least without qualifying one's comments in such a manner that it does not appear to the reader that the poster is indeed *painting* said demographic with a broad brush.
 

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I honestly think it's a bit ridiculous that there are men in this thread who claim to be gay yet have no idea what I'm talking about.

I don't claim to be gay. I am gay. It's no claim. It's fact. Period. So there's no need for such a statement when a gay person doesn't automatically agree with your position or feelings.

And as I said in my post #12, I don't have your life experience, but I do have an idea of what you are speaking about. I can read. And I've read plenty of posts here and elsewhere that speak to the challenges of being a single gay person today. And because I've not had your experiences doesn't mean I can't understand and empathize with yours and others frustrations.

Let's not sit here and act like none of us have ever met gay men who constantly seek attention by whatever means necessary. Let's not act like we've never seen gay men on Grindr with profiles that say, "Deleting this App Soon," or, "This App Sucks," or "Guys on This App Suck," yet they continue to stay on Grindr. Those are all clear attention seeking motives done by gay men on a gay app. Now, did I just say that ALL gay men on Grindr do this? No, I did not. Again, I'm just bringing up a point that a number of gay men are obsessed with attention from others.

Again, simply YOUR life experiences. And I'm sorry that these attention-seeking people bother you so much. I see them out and about. But they don't affect me. I learned this life lesson in my early 20's; I don't normally let things/people I can't control bother me. Unless it has some direct affect on me or my loved ones. It's that simple.

But again, you don't know these people nor their motivation. You've judged their behavior without knowing what might be causing them to exhibit such behavior. And you could indeed be correct; a number of Grindr users may indeed be attention whores. Or they may be insecure. Or frustrated. Or lonely. Whatever. And lashing out because of those feelings. I don't know, and neither do you. We can speculate, but then again, speculation is just a guess.

And as I said in my first post in this thread, I've known a number of narcissistic and self-focused people in my life. But it's their selfishness with themselves that is the common thread. Not anything else. Not specific to their gender, class, race, sexual orientation, whatever other box you may try to put them in. No particular demographic has the lock on narcissism. Period.

Now, let's move on to the real world since some here like to claim that they don't use apps and that apps are not a good representation of gays (even though they are because the internet allows unfiltered opinions). Let's discuss that one gay guy that we've all seen before at the gym that wears very obscene clothes. Do you think he's showing of his body so that other men ask him about his workout routine or do you think he's going to the gym in search of dick, or maybe both? A two-for-one deal? Regardless, it's an extreme form of attention seeking behavior. Let's discuss the traditional Sunday gay brunch after a late Saturday night of intoxication. They're being loud, they're eyeing every decent looking guy that comes into the establishment like a wild pack of hyenas, they're getting on the waiter's/waitresses' nerves. Again, attention seeking behavior. And before anyone makes a comment about this, I have never hung out with a gay crowd like this, I have only seen and and witnessed such behavior.

Yes, Nellon, let us move on to the real world. That others, including you, live in. That one "guy" who wears the obscene outfit at the gym? Nope, not my experience. At all. How would one know if the guy is even gay? I've good gaydar, lol, but damn have I been fooled. More times that I care to admit. As to his motivation for dressing that way? How ever would you or I know unless he confided in us? Again, attention-seeking is not limited to gay folks. Not even close.

How about my long-time gym buddy who, the first time I met him, was wearing skimpy tank and short shorts. With leg warmers. I just knew he was gay. Nope. Straight as a fucking arrow. There goes that stereotype.

Or the one woman from my first gym who spent her entire workout prancing and strutting around the free weight section in her way too tight and skimpy gym attire? Was she in search of dick? She sure didn't lack for male admirers. But again, I didn't care. Because it didn't affect me. And it certainly wasn't my place to judge her because I didn't know her. Or her motivation. At all.

Now, let's talk about Sunday brunch. I've been to all types of Sunday brunches. I've witnessed the behavior you describe. And yes, I've seen this loud and obnoxious behavior in non-gay establishments. The common factor IMO--alcohol. My take was a little more basic--just a bunch of people/friends out having a good time. So what if some of them were loud? They were the minority; the rest of us just sat back, enjoyed great food and had some fun people watching. Hell, we even made some new friends!

If what you described above offends you so much, you've got an easy fix. Don't go on Grindr. Don't go to that gym. Don't go to that particular Sunday brunch.

I don't use Grindr. But, I've certainly had no problems finding other venues in which to workout and have brunch that are not as gregarious as that which you describe. In fact, most of the establishments I frequent would probably bore a lot of folks. But it's a great opportunity to break bread and have good conversation with friends. Which is really not that much different from what you've described--friends with friends having a good time.
 

keenobserver

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I believe Sigmund Freud was more or less correct to be honest. There's a reason why a certain subset of gay men are nicknamed, "Adonises".




MisterB, you like the others here, need to get out of this "not all gays blah blah blah" stance. You really do. I never said ALL gays. I simply said that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among gay men. I did not say that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among ALL gay men. That would be ridiculous. I'm gay and I find attention on me to be a very uncomfortable experience.

I honestly think it's a bit ridiculous that there are men in this thread who claim to be gay yet have no idea what I'm talking about. I really think it goes back to what I have bolded in your comment that: "I'm kinda getting tired of the same ol' gays are *whatever* trope. Because we are not." We get it, not all gays. Ok got it, now onto the meat of the issue. Let's not sit here and act like none of us have ever met gay men who constantly seek attention by whatever means necessary. Let's not act like we've never seen gay men on Grindr with profiles that say, "Deleting this App Soon," or, "This App Sucks," or "Guys on This App Suck," yet they continue to stay on Grindr. Those are all clear attention seeking motives done by gay men on a gay app. Now, did I just say that ALL gay men on Grindr do this? No, I did not. Again, I'm just bringing up a point that a number of gay men are obsessed with attention from others. Now, let's move on to the real world since some here like to claim that they don't use apps and that apps are not a good representation of gays (even though they are because the internet allows unfiltered opinions). Let's discuss that one gay guy that we've all seen before at the gym that wears very obscene clothes. Do you think he's showing of his body so that other men ask him about his workout routine or do you think he's going to the gym in search of dick, or maybe both? A two-for-one deal? Regardless, it's an extreme form of attention seeking behavior. Let's discuss the traditional Sunday gay brunch after a late Saturday night of intoxication. They're being loud, they're eyeing every decent looking guy that comes into the establishment like a wild pack of hyenas, they're getting on the waiter's/waitresses' nerves. Again, attention seeking behavior. And before anyone makes a comment about this, I have never hung out with a gay crowd like this, I have only seen and and witnessed such behavior.

Lastly, we can only look at the behavior of a number of gay men (again I did not say "all") on Instagram to really and truly see attention seeking behavior. I'm not quite sure why people are having an issue with and being obtuse towards this behavior among some (not all) gay men and then not applying it to Jussie's case. It's just that Jussie did it on a grande scale and now the police are involved because his attention-seeking behavior backfired.

The only person in this thread who does not know what he is talking about is you.
 

MisterB

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Lastly, we can only look at the behavior of a number of gay men (again I did not say "all") on Instagram to really and truly see attention seeking behavior. I'm not quite sure why people are having an issue with and being obtuse towards this behavior among some (not all) gay men and then not applying it to Jussie's case. It's just that Jussie did it on a grande scale and now the police are involved because his attention-seeking behavior backfired.

You are simply asking folks to agree with you. I don't. Because you and I don't know Mr. Smollett's motivation. I do know what I've heard reported in various news sources I've perused. I have no basis upon which to judge and/or ascribe Mr. Smollett's behavior to the fact that he's gay. Or black. Or male. Or whatever.

But then again I do try and not make judgments until I'm privy to all the facts. I'll continue to reserve my judgment in this case until we hear directly from Mr. Smollett. Not a statement from the Police, or his Attorney. No, from Mr. Smollett's mouth.
 

DiomedesXVI

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I believe Sigmund Freud was more or less correct to be honest. There's a reason why a certain subset of gay men are nicknamed, "Adonises".

MisterB, you like the others here, need to get out of this "not all gays blah blah blah" stance. You really do. I never said ALL gays. I simply said that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among gay men. I did not say that the narcissism/extreme desire for attention is a common behavior among ALL gay men. That would be ridiculous. I'm gay and I find attention on me to be a very uncomfortable experience.

Even if you’re gay yourself, and I can see partly where you’re coming from, you can’t treat narcissism or validation seeking behaviour as in a vacuum among lgbt people. People from all walks of sexualities are plenty attention seeking. Just because your scope of the world is relegated more toward engaging with and experiencing the company of fellow lgbt people makes you see more sides of lgbt behaviours doesn’t mean those same behaviours aren’t happening in straight society too. Admittedly you haven’t said this, but your words keep teetering on this view that extreme validation seeking behaviour is more an lgbt monolith than ever it could be a heterosexual one, and I’m going to say that’s completely incorrect.

I honestly think it's a bit ridiculous that there are men in this thread who claim to be gay yet have no idea what I'm talking about. I really think it goes back to what I have bolded in your comment that: "I'm kinda getting tired of the same ol' gays are *whatever* trope. Because we are not." We get it, not all gays.

Ok got it, now onto the meat of the issue. Let's not sit here and act like none of us have ever met gay men who constantly seek attention by whatever means necessary. Let's not act like we've never seen gay men on Grindr with profiles that say, "Deleting this App Soon," or, "This App Sucks," or "Guys on This App Suck," yet they continue to stay on Grindr. Those are all clear attention seeking motives done by gay men on a gay app. Now, did I just say that ALL gay men on Grindr do this? No, I did not. Again, I'm just bringing up a point that a number of gay men are obsessed with attention from others.

So far in reading this, my point above still stands, you’re still almost hinting at this point, that extreme narcissism is only classically an lgbt flaw, which again, is not realistically true.

Now, let's move on to the real world since some here like to claim that they don't use apps and that apps are not a good representation of gays (even though they are because the internet allows unfiltered opinions).

Actually let’s stop right here. The internet being an unfiltered place can provide interesting looks into psychological behaviour, but let’s not for one second pretend it’s a good representation of any swathe of people. 4chan being full of edgelord douchebags definitely does not properly represent the psyche of straight people, terfs on tumblr don’t represent the psyche of feminist women, and yes gay profiles on Grindr which are seemingly attention seeking are not representative of the psyche of gay people. And why are gay dating/hookup apps not a good representation sample of gay behaviour? I’ll tell you, for two reasons.

1. There is no collective psyche. You acknowledge this when you go “I get it, not all gays”. But then you broadbrush that narcissism is some defining trait of the gay community which leads me into the second reason.

2. Dating/hookup apps are MEANT to be attention seeking. That’s their WHOLE purpose, to seek the attention of other potentially interested parties to meet a mutual need, e.g. romance, sex, etc. Gay dating apps are a terrible representation of gay psyche because those apps are specifically designed for users to seek attention, that’s why the app was made.

So yes, it’s a bad representation sample.

Let's discuss that one gay guy that we've all seen before at the gym that wears very obscene clothes. Do you think he's showing of his body so that other men ask him about his workout routine or do you think he's going to the gym in search of dick, or maybe both? A two-for-one deal? Regardless, it's an extreme form of attention seeking behavior. Let's discuss the traditional Sunday gay brunch after a late Saturday night of intoxication. They're being loud, they're eyeing every decent looking guy that comes into the establishment like a wild pack of hyenas, they're getting on the waiter's/waitresses' nerves. Again, attention seeking behavior. And before anyone makes a comment about this, I have never hung out with a gay crowd like this, I have only seen and and witnessed such behavior.

Okay??? So should we talk about those dudebros who go to the gym and also wear as eye-catching a muscle tank as they can so that people most definitely see their gains and how swole they are?
Or should we talk about loudly gossipy gal pal brunches? Or those groups of straight women going to gay bars to specifically seek male attention and play with what they can’t have but somehow think their vagina has magical sexuality changing powers?
I mean we can ALL just as easily list off beaucoups of groups of people and individuals who seek attention and see clearly that such behaviours are not uniquely tied to or associated with gay men.

Lastly, we can only look at the behavior of a number of gay men (again I did not say "all") on Instagram to really and truly see attention seeking behavior. I'm not quite sure why people are having an issue with and being obtuse towards this behavior among some (not all) gay men and then not applying it to Jussie's case. It's just that Jussie did it on a grande scale and now the police are involved because his attention-seeking behavior backfired.

Lastly, I don’t think anyone is being obtuse here. What I actually think is happening is that you’ve deemed any disagreement toward your position or the tone of your expression to mean outright denial of attention seeking behaviour in gay men. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person in this thread say they don’t believe gay men participate in any attention seeking behaviours at all. The only person I’ve actually seen come close to saying that is you arguing against people who have supposedly said that but in reality haven’t. Hence, a strawman projection of what people responding to you are actually saying.
 
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I disagree with so much of what is being said here. I honestly do. It seems that there are two sides to every coin.

All of you here believe that that there is no particular behavior that can be attributed to gay men. Which I understand but it's not something that I believe. I think there are several behaviors that are seen in higher instances among gay men than among other populations. Yes, not all gays, but still some behaviors you do see higher prevalence among gay men.

While, I genuinely understand where some of you are coming from, I just will respectfully disagree with it. I personally believe that your reality reflects your perception of behaviors among gay men. Whereas my reality and that things I've observed led my to state what I said about Jussie. I'm not taking it back because I've noticed it too much among gay men, especially among younger populations, but also among older gay men as well. I just now did a Google search and all I put in was, "Narcissism among gay men" and dissertation after dissertation popped up from that search alone with just those words. You may consider this confirmation bias, but the fact that the research is out there shows that this is at least a thing among gay men. One report even said quote: "The hypothesis, which is based on the Freudian connection between narcissism and homosexuality, is supported by the results, indicating that the homosexual students score higher in both measures of narcissism and lower on the self-esteem measure, compared to their heterosexual counterparts." This was a study conducted in Israel with 90 homosexual and 109 heterosexual male students.

Again, I really due think some of you only speak for your reality which is fine and I completely understand that groups do not like to be painted all in one brush, especially groups that have historically been discriminated against. But again, I am gay and I don't care lol. I will call things out as how I see it. And yes, I do see lots of narcissism among gay men. And yes, I believe that Jussie did this out of his narcissistic behavior and his extreme desire for attention and spotlight.
 
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The only person in this thread who does not know what he is talking about is you.

You and @Mister B remind me of so many gay guys that I have met that refuse to acknowledge general behaviors among some gay men. I get it. We are individuals. We do not come from a collectivist society (speaking from the United States). But still, no matter the opinions of others, they cannot deny the prevalence of certain behaviors common amongst gay men. They can say all they want and write paragraph after paragraph but that does not refute the fact (back up by conducted studies and research no less) that there are certain human behaviors that are found more common among gay men. All they spout are their opinions backed up by nothing.

The real question to ask is why *some* gay men feel the need to be narcissistic and attention seeking. Is this a societal influence or biological?
 
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902369

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Even if you’re gay yourself, and I can see partly where you’re coming from, you can’t treat narcissism or validation seeking behaviour as in a vacuum among lgbt people. People from all walks of sexualities are plenty attention seeking. Just because your scope of the world is relegated more toward engaging with and experiencing the company of fellow lgbt people makes you see more sides of lgbt behaviours doesn’t mean those same behaviours aren’t happening in straight society too. Admittedly you haven’t said this, but your words keep teetering on this view that extreme validation seeking behaviour is more an lgbt monolith than ever it could be a heterosexual one, and I’m going to say that’s completely incorrect.



So far in reading this, my point above still stands, you’re still almost hinting at this point, that extreme narcissism is only classically an lgbt flaw, which again, is not realistically true.



Actually let’s stop right here. The internet being an unfiltered place can provide interesting looks into psychological behaviour, but let’s not for one second pretend it’s a good representation of any swathe of people. 4chan being full of edgelord douchebags definitely does not properly represent the psyche of straight people, terfs on tumblr don’t represent the psyche of feminist women, and yes gay profiles on Grindr which are seemingly attention seeking are not representative of the psyche of gay people. And why are gay dating/hookup apps not a good representation sample of gay behaviour? I’ll tell you, for two reasons.

1. There is no collective psyche. You acknowledge this when you go “I get it, not all gays”. But then you broadbrush that narcissism is some defining trait of the gay community which leads me into the second reason.

2. Dating/hookup apps are MEANT to be attention seeking. That’s their WHOLE purpose, to seek the attention of other potentially interested parties to meet a mutual need, e.g. romance, sex, etc. Gay dating apps are a terrible representation of gay psyche because those apps are specifically designed for users to seek attention, that’s why the app was made.

So yes, it’s a bad representation sample.




Okay??? So should we talk about those dudebros who go to the gym and also wear as eye-catching a muscle tank as they can so that people most definitely see their gains and how swole they are?
Or should we talk about loudly gossipy gal pal brunches? Or those groups of straight women going to gay bars to specifically seek male attention and play with what they can’t have but somehow think their vagina has magical sexuality changing powers?
I mean we can ALL just as easily list off beaucoups of groups of people and individuals who seek attention and see clearly that such behaviours are not uniquely tied to or associated with gay men.



Lastly, I don’t think anyone is being obtuse here. What I actually think is happening is that you’ve deemed any disagreement toward your position or the tone of your expression to mean outright denial of attention seeking behaviour in gay men. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person in this thread say they don’t believe gay men participate in any attention seeking behaviours at all. The only person I’ve actually seen come close to saying that is you arguing against people who have supposedly said that but in reality haven’t. Hence, a strawman projection of what people responding to you are actually saying.

I'll address the bolded. Yes, I agree with you that apps are meant to be attention seeking. However, you omitted what I said. I said that there are gay men on apps who say, and I will quote from my previous message,: "Deleting this App Soon," or, "This App Sucks," or "Guys on This App Suck." You omitted this. Messages on apps like that are beyond the normal desire of attention that one would expect a user to have an app. And everyone that has used Grindr has seen at least one profile that has a sub-header with those lines. So I disagree with you, gay apps are indeed a perfect representation example of extreme attention seeking behavior among gay men.

To the last paragraph I will refer you to read my message number 17. The posters here have not said that they don't believe gay men participate in any attention seeking behaviors at all, what they generally have said instead is that, "you cannot paint all gay men with the same brush stroke" and "sexuality does not determine such behavior". That is what these commenters have said. Now, how does this not sound like denial of attention-seeking behavior among gay men? To me, those conclusions sound like by-passes with respect to Jussie and the issue that we are discussing. But as I said in my previous message, I will respectfully disagree because I know for as long as I have lived that discriminated groups as a whole do not like to discuss any negative behavior amongst themselves. You will be met with complete reproach.
 

keenobserver

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You and @Mister B remind me of so many gay guys that I have met that refuse to acknowledge general behaviors among some gay men. I get it. We are individuals. We do not come from a collectivist society (speaking from the United States). But still, no matter the opinions of others, they cannot deny the prevalence of certain behaviors common amongst gay men. They can say all they want and write paragraph after paragraph but that does not refute the fact (back up by conducted studies and research no less) that there are certain human behaviors that are found more common among gay men. All they spout are their opinions backed up by nothing.

The real question to ask is why *some* gay men feel the need to be narcissistic and attention seeking. Is this a societal influence or biological?

The same questions apply to all people - not just gay men. You fail to grasp that and want to make this a gay thing - a sign of deep seated self hate. Yes, I know gay men who do stupid shit. So what? I know more straight men who do stupid shit, again, so what? Your hole thread is a silly generalization that self haters tend to do. I've moved on, and you're on "ignore,"