Just Saw B.Obama's Speech

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by faceking, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    So I watched the speech by Obama in it's entirety now. Sorry, Barack, it doesn't wash. Good to see you throw your grandmother under the bus and condemn her honest calm thoughts, yet dismiss the raving looning thought of your pastor as 'part of the culture' and/or 'the crazy uncle, who is a good person despite'.

    Your elderly white grandmother being afraid of black men who pass her on the street is not the moral equivalent of your pastor saying that black people should pray that God will damn America. Your claim that you winced when your white grandmother bought into racial stereotypes does not excuse you for spending your entire adult life in the pews of a man who claims that white people in the United States government invented AIDS to genocide black people.

    Your attempt to make it personally 1:1 was offensive, at best.

    And the fact that your genealogy is racially diverse doesn't change the fact that since you got out of college you have chosen to worship at a church which preaches black nationalism. Your family history is racially diverse, but your life choices are not.

    You were in the congregation, Barack, and that wasn't an accident. It wasn't a few sporadic insane rants, it was a fundamental philosophy. I've seen your church's website, I've heard your pastor preach.

    And we've heard how the congregation reacted.

    Because while you now when it is politically essential to do so disavow your closest spiritual advisor, it is clear from the videotape of him at the pulpit that the rest of the congregation heartily agreed with his most outlandish statements. His worst rantings were not greeted by embarrassed silence, they were met by rousing cheers.

    How likely is it, Senator Obama, that you would have freely spent 20 years of your life in a church whose pastor and congregation were in fundamental disagreement with you?

    It is not likely at all. The crazy uncle argument doesn't fly.

    Your claim that you didn't hear your pastor's views on the United States is not credible. While you were a member of his church a church you selected after a search of several there were 20 Fourth of Julys, 20 Flag Days, 20 Memorial Days and 20 Veterans Days. It is inconceivable that your pastor's open contempt for the United States was not discernible to you on any of those 80 days of American patriotism.

    If John McCain had been in the congregation, he would have walked up and punched the man. If Hillary Clinton had been in the congregation, she would have walked out. Barack Obama was in the congregation and he stayed for 20 years.

    To claim that this man is a part of your family, but that you weren't aware of his most passionate political and racial views, is not believable. Seriously, is it your claim, Barack, that this man your intimate friend and close spiritual advisor never mentioned his political views to you as you became first an Illinois senator and then a United States senator?

    He advised his congregants to write and call their representatives, but he didn't ever talk politics with the politician in his congregation?

    How is that believable?

    And how is it that a white politician is damned for a single visit to Jerry Falwell or Bob Jones but you are to go unquestioned for some 1,000 visits to a church whose leaders' racial views are far more strident?

    And do you really expect anybody to believe that this black racial anger that you speak of is a phenomenon of just the older generation? Is it really your assertion, Barack, that that anger or, to be more accurate, racism is found only in African-Americans the age of your pastor? Do you think that's
    a credible claim?

    And do you think that these barbershop and dinner-table conversations you say blacks have, the ones in which they express racial anger against whites, do you really think they are morally excusable or justified? Don't you think instead of explaining and condoning such attitudes that you should challenge and condemn them?

    If racism among whites is worthy of condemnation, why isn't it among blacks?

    And if your grandmother's supposed racial stereotypes made you wince, what do these barbershop and dinner-table racial stereotypes make you do? If racism is damaging to the people who have it in their hearts, why don't you save the folks having these barbershop conversations from the moral damage of their own prejudice and bigotry?

    Why didn't you challenge the attitudes of the people you go to church with? For 20 years you were up to your eyeteeth in black separatism and black anger, and instead of challenging those attitudes, you either silently assented to them or went along with them. With that background, how do you honestly think you could be entrusted to bridge America's racial
    divide?

    With all respect, senator, it seems like you've spent your adult life as a partisan on one side of the racial divide. Why should anybody on the other side, or anybody who doesn't share your view that racial division is our most pressing national concern, think you could be fair or objective?

    Because it's clear you don't understand how white people feel or act.

    In your remarks yesterday, just before you tried to unite whites and blacks in your Marxist hatred of corporations and rich people, you claimed that white people, when they get together, express racial anger against black people.

    You got that wrong.

    Not to be rude, but white people mostly don't give a damn. White people mostly don't see the great divide your pastor has based his ministry on. White people, when they are at the barbershop or dining-room table, usually talk about their families or sports or what they saw on TV or what their plans are for the weekend. While black people might be bubbling over with racial anger at white people, white people usually have something more interesting to talk about. We're so guilt ridden over racism, that MOST whites over-compensate and turn out to be the most non-racist of any race here in the US. That is an unknown fact.

    Sorry.

    And I'm sorry that there is such a clear double standard in American society and politics. Racism among blacks is fine and racism among whites is condemned. No amount of racism among whites is tolerable and any amount of racism among blacks seems just fine. Called on it, the ridiculous argument is made that blacks cannot be racist because they don't control the institutions of power, or some such nonsense. That is simply preposterous.

    While Barack Obama calls for bridging the racial divide, his own campaign benefits by it, and the double standard that underpins it.

    Barack Obama is, for example, the black candidate-- if you are black. But if you are white, and you say that he is the black candidate,you are a racist. Just ask Geraldine Ferraro. Black supporters clearly and constantly support him on the basis of race, but if anyone who's not black points that out, they're a racist.

    How does that make any sense?

    The great challenge, moreover HYPOCRISY for Barack Obama had was to keep the support of those who agree with his pastor while trying to get the support of those who don't.

    The simple fact is that the views of his pastor have a significant following among American blacks. The pastor didn't build a national following among blacks by preaching about the Sermon on the Mount. What the pastor says resonates with a great many black people.

    And those black people have been Barack Obama's margin of victory time and time again. When you're drawing 90 to 95 percent of the black vote in a Democratic primary, you know who you owe your success to.

    Barack Obama's career and political success are based on a black-centered approach to life. That is his right. But to now claim some race-straddling position, bridging the gap between whites and blacks as a neutral mediator, is just not believable.

    And neither does it reflect the fact that though blacks are America's longest-standing minority community, they are not its largest. There are blacks and whites and Latinos and Asians in this country, and Indians and Middle Easterners and Pacific Islanders.

    And somebody worthy of being president would hold them all to the same standard and extend to them all the same respect and support.

    And he would call them all the same thing.

    Americans.

    The problems with race in this country come from people forgetting that they are first and foremost Americans, with a bond of citizenship and brotherhood to all other Americans.

    A president should teach that this is the greatest country on Earth and that its citizens are created equal and that this nation is indivisible. Much less the lack of lapel, hand on heart, and his raving wife on hating America for the most part.

    And so should that president's pastor.
     
  2. vindicator

    vindicator Member

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    Wow...

    I have a REAL problem with judging a person based on someone ELSES words or actions.

    The fact is, Obama RARELY has brought race into his politics and this was thrust on him. Obama has ALWAYS spoken out against exactly this kind of crap, so saying he is some kind of black national activist is crazy. This issue is only coming up because it was said by Obama's pastor. We have no idea if this was a regular occurrence in his church. Given the fact that this was right after 9/11 and everyones tensions were running high, and there are not other documented cases, we can only say that this happened once until we know otherwise.

    The other fact is that Obama is not in fact black, he is a person of mixed race. He is just as much white as he is black.

    To me, where the line was crossed was when Wright cursed America. You can disagree, you can have opinions but thats over the line. But thats Wrights problem, and again, i don't believe you can make a judgement on a person based on what someone else says.

    It's just like Ferraro. She proxy of Clinton, but i don't hold Clinton accountable to her words.

    There are arguments to be made based on what Wright said. US foreign policy had NOTHING to do with 9/11? Looking back, is there nothing that had been done in the decades leading up to 9/11 that might not have been in the best interests of the country and that pissed a lot of people off and could have been handled differently? The US did in fact use blacks for medical experiments in the past.

    And as far as what white say about blacks, i think thats awesome that the people you know don't engage in negative discussions about blacks, but thats definitely the minority. I hear white people CONSTANTLY talking the same way Obama described.

    What does Obama have to do to assure people that his beliefs are his own? Swear a blood oath against Wright!? It's craziness.
     
  3. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's guilt-by-association, ...whether right or wrong.

    If John McCain had some donation by David Duke to a campaign he had in 1980whatever..... you darn well bet it would come out. The fact that Obama sat on it for days, had a staff write and re-write it X times, vet and survey it with sample surveys...

    The guy is THE most liberal senator... that doesn't come from me, either. Just doesn't seem smart, if it's not hypocritical then, to stay in public office yet stay with such a congregation for so long. I respect his faithfulness (not in the religious sense), but politics is politics, you should be smart about playing-by-the rules.

    And I still disagree about the minority of white talking about blacks... besides.... especially in these parts, there are more hispanics than any other minority, and soon will be #2 in the US. Regardless.... white folk place the racial divide way down the list on the priority for a President. Whether right or wrong, I think many whites have already turned the page, at least in larger states like California and New York. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
     
  4. mrpond

    mrpond New Member

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    class war..... more like race war in american politics
     
  5. No_Strings

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    Relatively amusing, wouldn't read again.
     
  6. ucsb123

    ucsb123 New Member

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    Wow. First off, the entire grandmother arguement was not to bring parity. It was to show that one can't judge a person based on soundbites. Second off, HE IS MIXED!!! Being mixed myself (also midwestern and African, from Africa) I understand where he is coming from. Too white for the blacks at times, too black for the whites at others. That is why he is not playing the race card as much (he is as much as McCain or Clinton are). Yeah, being mixed you have a better understanding of racial issues. MIXED PEOPLE ARE THE RACIAL ISSUE!!! Plus, even though the pastor should have had more tact, he was stating well known social ills that even whites are afflicted with. (The war on drugs is not only a minority problem, the prison complex is not only a minority problem). In fact, America's whites are more likely to be in prison than Europe's white population. Sad, but true.

    Going to the drawing 95% of the black vote thing. Early in the primaries MORE BLACKS were for Clinton, than for Obama. I know this since I was a paid fundraiser for Clinton. Sorry for skipping around and lack of cohesion, its finals week. Anyways, Obama won even the whitest of states. It was really in Mississippi that the color difference really emerged.

    Look, my family on my father's side was REALLY racist against my mom. That does not mean I don't love my family. I may disagree with them when they state things like "You are calm for a black person (talking about my mom)" or "You and your brother aren't really black". The same way when my black friends would say "You are whitewashed (no shit, I'm half white)". Obama's pastor did a lot of good for the Chicago community. In fact, he greatly helped Obama in aiding South Chicago.

    Like Obama said, either we can play the clips over and over again or we can change things (paraphrased in my own words).
     
  7. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Right, and the number of minority Prime Ministers... and/or royalty holding throne in Kingdom?
     
  8. playainda336

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    It's quite obvious that you just have a personal bias against Obama...and anything I say will not change that. I'll have to leave it at that.
     
  9. HazelGod

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    There's no "maybe" about it...and it's not the only thing, either.
     
  10. uncutguy37

    uncutguy37 Active Member

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    now he says his grandmother is just a "typical white person" regarding her racist remarks
     
  11. Lex

    Lex
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    Excusing and ignoring family member's bigoted remarks is among the first steps to ensuring that bigotry continues.
     
  12. ucsb123

    ucsb123 New Member

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    He never once stated that. He was not implying anything about white America by that statement.
     
  13. tripod

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    Rush Limbaugh is a douche.
     
  14. playainda336

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    People take what they want from people they are biased against.
     
  15. amhersthungboi

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    Don't bother critiquing Obama, or giving your opinion of him or the campaign. Unless it washes with the Obama-ites, you're just sticking yourself under the bus.

    Critique of Obama = blasphemy
    Critique of Clinton (or her supports, or Obama critics) = good old fun!
     
  16. MovingForward

    MovingForward Member

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  17. bigdlover

    bigdlover New Member

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    BRAVO!! Couldn't have said it better myself--a couple of not-quite-clear areas, but for the most part well-thought out. Too bad he can't be confronted with this directly instead of by the mindless minions of the media.
     
  18. playainda336

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    Well, if you make valid claims its open game for both.

    This particular critique of Obama doesn't make sense because it's taken completely out of context form what he was saying. Nobody takes anything out on context when dealing with Clinton...unfortunately for her.
     
  19. amhersthungboi

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    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".
    --Edmund Burke

    What did Obama do to stop his own preacher from spouting evil on a regular basis? Nothing.
     
  20. playainda336

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    That's like asking an American what did they do to stop George Bush from attacking Saddam Hussein and destroying Iraq when he had no ties to Al-Quaida in our "War Against Terrorism".

    Wright was doing his job, Obama was doing his.

    Besides...freedom of speech, right? Wright wasn't going around attacking White people in the street.
     
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