keith olbermann on prop 8/amendment 2

Discussion in 'Politics' started by surferboy, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. surferboy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,182
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunrise, Florida
    YouTube - Keith Olbermann Speaks Out On Prop 8


    normally, i don't like people that are far on any side, especially those that are so blind by their political beliefs that they can't see any other side of an issue (like keith and bill o'reilly).

    that said, i do like this commentary
     
  2. nudeyorker

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    42,918
    Likes Received:
    36
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC/Honolulu
    It's wonderful! I'm moving it to the Politics Forum!
     
  3. D_N Flay Table

    D_N Flay Table New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,757
    Likes Received:
    7
  4. surferboy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,182
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunrise, Florida

    awesome :biggrin1:
     
  5. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    Excellent commentary.
    It stayed away from any political or racial spins and got right to the point.
     
  6. surferboy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,182
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunrise, Florida
    he said he didn't have any personal connection, yah? but, is it me, or did he sound kinda emotional in this editorial?
     
  7. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Notice how passionately Olbermann says that this is not a question of POLITICS (it's people's lives).

    It's not politics. It's not POLITICS.

    People's lives shouldn't be put for a vote at the ballot box.
     
  8. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    One more quickie:

    A ban on gay marriage was voted on in California once before (in 2000. called prop 22) and passed with 61% of the vote.

    Now, eight years later, this new ban passes -- but by a vote of 52%-48%. You know WHY the mormons and evangelical christian groups (Focus on the Family, Family Research Council, etc) are so nervous & agitated: every year the numbers are slowly closing in on them. It's a losing battle.

    The LDS church started the "Yes on 8" ball rolling by funneled in over $15 million dollars from Utah into CA specifically for advertising. This helped finance all those barrage of ads showing how schoolteachers are going to supposedly "indoctrinate" the kids, your kids, in kintergarden to the "gay lifestyle".

    To the mormon influence, add the hundreds of thousands of african-american who normally don't vote by large margins -- but who went out to vote this year for Obama... and, being socially conservative (at least on the gay marriage issue), broke for prop 8 by 70%.

    This makes me a bit uncomfortable, I'm not racist, but the other minorities did us in. Exit polling shows that whites voted "No on 8" in CA 51%-49%. Latinos were breaking about 52% for "Yes". Blacks, 70%.


    But the lesson in all is: the times, they are a-changin. 52%-48% was the final tally, a world away from that 61% 8 years ago.


    Sorry. This wasn't a quickie after all.
     
  9. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    Don't blame this on any race or any political party affiliation. The fundamentalists & other religious freaks want you to because it takes the heat off of them. The African Americans didn't "do you in". Nor did any Democrat or Republican agenda cause this bill to pass. This is a clear example of people who use their religious beliefs to affect our laws and oppress others.

    Point the finger at the real source. That's the only way we can change things.
     
  10. surferboy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,182
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunrise, Florida
    while it was the mormons and friends that was a majority of the reason why this passed, you cannot deny the fact that the minorities might have had some influence in this election. black people, traditionally, do vote socially conservative. if you can't realize this, then you are blinded by the PC machine
     
  11. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    I'm not blinded, surferboy. I'm a gay, black liberal. Or according to some people, Public Enemy number one (next to terrorism). That technically makes me a minority, a sexual deviant and un-American. :rolleyes:

    Maybe that's the reason why I can look past the so-called "group of people" who had influence and point the finger at the real source? Because believe me, I've seen ALL the numbers. If you want to look at it from a race demographic, you can focus on the 70% of black people who voted against the measure and put the blame on them. But Blacks only make 6% of the vote, which is barely around 600,000 people compared to the 10.2 Million who voted. That doesn't excuse the other 94% of other races, 80% of which are white, who basically split the vote in half. Putting race aside and looking at this as a gay man, I can tell you that I don't just get hate from my own kind. I get it from homophobic people of ALL colors and races pretty damn equally. So don't sit here and make one racial demographic the scapegoat. You're ALL at fault here. Either way, getting stuck on the numbers & percentages is exactly what the religious people want you to do. Put down the poll numbers and THINK about it. WHERE do you think this prejudice regarding marriage manifested in the first place? WHO teaches, or brainwashes people into believing that homosexuality is an abomination? You don't learn that by watching "Chocolate News" on Comedy Central or "Hell Date" on BET... you learn this garbage from the so-called religious ones.

    I don't deny that there's a problem within the black community on this issue. But until you can fix the problem in your OWN, don't even start telling other people what to do. Just remember... the best result in this whole thing was a 51/49 split. That's practically right down the middle. I wouldn't be patting myself on the back for what averages out to be a failing grade. :rolleyes:
     
  12. OldPArtner

    OldPArtner New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    He was saddened because the Mormons hate our freedom, and apparently so did enough Californians.

    Another way to view this is that he kinda felt like he needed to defend his sexuality there...I mean has he ever been seen with a woman?
     
  13. D_Chocho_Lippz

    D_Chocho_Lippz Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,778
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personal connection, as in, nothing to really gain from this...

    He is emotional because, like he said in his speech, everyone deserves equality. But we denied that equality.... and love.
     
  14. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Olbermann on the mark for a change. This is refreshing and shocking at the same time.
     
  15. dreamer20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Providence
    California QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

    circa 2006 California population statistical data in %:
    White: 76.9%
    Black: 6.7%
    Other:16.4%

    From the population breakdown it is evident the Black minority, which you targeted, can only be attributed a very small percentage of the "Yes" votes. The White demographic is responsible for a lion's share of those "Yes" votes and you ignored this fact and scapegoated the minorities.
     
    #15 dreamer20, Nov 11, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2008
  16. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    VinylBoy & dreamer:

    Can't start my day here without typing a note & admitting that, yes, since whites were by far the largest demographic in the prop 8 vote, they do deserve the lion's share of blame ("blame"... I always seem to be blaming...).

    I started out with a false premise: in my mind, I subcategorized all people into "groups" (whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc) --- then looked at the returns. Whites voted No by a slim majority (51-49), and I figured that every "group" should be pulling his weight and voting No by some majority.

    The truth is, Prop 8 lost by between 450,000 and 500,00 votes I think (out of a total 10 million+ cast). So, if that stat that one of you gave that 600,000 blacks voted, if wouldn't have altered the outcome appreciably if blacks broke for No by over 50%.


    I DID notice this intriguing stat: asians, though a small minority, broke overwhelmingly AGAINST the ban (by more than 60%). I can only attribute this to that culture's lack of a "Judeo-Christian" values system - a values system that has turned gays into deviants and unfit for marriage.
     
  17. faceking

    faceking Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,445
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    26
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL
    Ummmm. No.
     
  18. houtx48

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    uhhhhhhhh yes
     
  19. surferboy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,182
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunrise, Florida

    ummmm. yes.


    i see you're from cali bruddah. question for you: did you vote, and if so, did you vote yes or no on prop 8?


    also, i'm kinda mad no one's talkin about amendment 2 in florida, or whatever they called it in arizona
     
  20. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    Well, you can't please EVERYONE, now can ya? :rolleyes:
    Seriously, unless you can bring something to this discussion that can look past the obvious and get to the real issue, then keep your mouth shut.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted