"Kill Bill" and "Kung Fu" actor David Carradine found dead age 72

ZOS23xy

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It wasn't suicide. It was autoerotic asphyxiation.

If nothing else I hope his senseless death will focus a spotlight on this deadly practice for once and for all. Autoerotic asphyxiation has been practised from time immemorial but it's too-often deadly.

I mean really people. How good does one's orgams have to be?

If this gets swept under the rug it would be an entirely lost opportunity.

For the love of Christ Katharine Hepburn's brother died of it and she found him.

Uhm. Let's let the facts surface over the next few days.

I know that cartoonist Vaughn Bode killed himself through this practice. His son found him.

I did meet with Vaughn Bode a few times. He was dating a woman who dropped him from her radar when she discovered he was doing this. How do you explain purple tracks covering your neck?

It's a stupid way to get high.
 

B_Stronzo

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I'm perfectly willing to "let the facts surface" ZOS23sy but be this the cause (as it appears increasingly to be) or not it's a perfect opportunity to address this topic. And address it I shall.

(your "Uhm" notwithstanding - I'm following what's being released from Bangkok and it appears to point - even according to his family - to the obvious cause)
 

MichiganRico

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StormyB

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Now they're saying it might have been unintentional murder because the Hotel was stalling when asked for the surveillance tapes and the fact that he also had his hands bound behind his back.

I'm thinking there's a ladyboy roaming the streets looking for an alibi.

I agree, how does one go about tieing his hands behind his back and a rope around his gems?.....Nevermind, I don't think I want to know anymore =_= .....

Anyway, I suspect he had help "maybe a prostitute or escort" that may have assisted him but when he died feared being wrongly accused and bounced or maybe they killed him purposely.
 

Meniscus

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Stronzo, I'm so sorry about your brother. Bless you.

As for why people do it, I can almost understand. I think most of us look for new sexual thrills, especially when we're young and still discovering the joys of sex, and when we're older and trying to spice things up.

Few of us are satisfied with one masturbation technique, or even just masturbation for that matter. We want sex, and not just coitus. We want oral and anal. We want multiple positions. Some of us want threesome or groups sex or toys. Some us costumes and props. How about fisting? And so on.

If I heard about a technique to significantly enhance my pleasure, I'd certainly be interested in trying it. I'd rapidly lose interest if I learned it involved something risky, but I'm sure many men, especially younger guys, don't fully realize the dangers of this practice. They've just heard or read about how amazing it feels, and their source of information may downplay the risks, or offer instructions on how to do it "safely." Even if the person engaging in the practice is aware of the risks, I'm sure there's an element of "I know what I'm doing; it's not going to happen to me" kind of thinking.

There are also parallels to drug use. Over the years I've met several extremely smart, well-educated, "respectable," professionally successful men who use recreational drugs and are very casual about doing so. As far as I can tell, in their minds, there's no good reason not to do drugs. To them, the high is worth it--they typically downplay the risks.

[I've noticed that there's no small degree of arrogance among drug-users who are not yet addicts, or who have not yet had to face the consequences of their addiction(s). They see themselves as different from, and superior to, the people who end up in jail or in rehab. The greater their professional or social status, the greater their sense of privilege, of immunity to the consequences of their habits.]

There are also some parallels to extreme sports, daredevil stunts, and other "legitimate" forms of thrill-seeking, except that I think these people may be more realistic in their assessment of the risks, and more responsible in their practices.

Among human beings, there is a wide range of risk tolerance, from abnormally low to abnormally high. We all know (or know of) people who engage in risky behaviors in the pursuit of money, power, status, or pleasure. Then there are people (like me) who avoid risk to the extent of denying themselves opportunities for personal or professional growth. Many (most?) people are a blend, willing to take risks in some aspects of their lives but not others.

All that is to say that I think autoerotic asphyxiation may be a type of thrill seeking, and thrill seekers often have a high risk tolerance and/or an unrealistically low estimation of the risks of their behaviors.
 

B_Stronzo

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Meniscus- thanks for the kind acknowledgement.

Your perspective runs the gamut of all the things that were his personality.

All that is to say that I think autoerotic asphyxiation may be a type of thrill seeking, and thrill seekers often have a high risk tolerance and/or an unrealistically low estimation of the risks of their behaviors.

That part is key.

It's just that death is so final and pleasure so fleeting.
 

Principessa

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Now they're saying it might have been unintentional murder because the Hotel was stalling when asked for the surveillance tapes and the fact that he also had his hands bound behind his back.
Hadn't heard about the hands bound behind his back?! :eek:




I'm thinking there's a ladyboy roaming the streets looking for an alibi.
Hmm, I hadn't considered the involvement of another person. :frown1::mad: From the first I assumed it was auto-erotic asphyxia, which doesn't usually require 2 people. The closet bit was a tad odd though.


Deno I see your point.

But the thing is people know about it as a subculture sexual thing anyway. If these idiots are going to practice it at least have someone with you.
I think that maybe, some of the people that practice this are embarassed or ashamed and that's why they do it alone.:redface: I've not done a study on it, thats just a guesstimation.


Since I lost my brother to it I've (of necessity) had to learn a great deal about the whys of the thing and what would make someone so sexualized (genetics?) that a regular orgasm isn't orgasm enough. I'm the last person to want to put the snafu on something that's sexually enjoyable.

I've spoken often pubically about it at support groups in the Boston area.

When you put your very life at risk for a momentary thrill I draw the line.

Perhaps - just perhaps - if enough focus is put on Carradine's death this thing will be exposed for the dangerous thing it is.

Look - I went through years of therapy over finding my brother just as this chambermaid found Carradine. It's an UNGODLY sight that never leaves you. These selfish bastards who court death for their own sexual gratification are only thinking of momentary pleasure.

It took me many years to forgive my brother the legacy of what I found that fateful night. Do I love him? Yes. Did he change my life by his selfish deed irrevocably for all time? YES.

Remember even though not technically suicide autoerotic asphyxiation is a courting of death. Combine that with the total disregard for the aftermath of a botched "session" and you have one true tragedy.

My sympathy goes not to David but to those he leaves behind.

My condolences on the tragic loss of your brother. :frown1:
 

Yorkie

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Hadn't heard about the hands bound behind his back?! :eek:
Hmm, I hadn't considered the involvement of another person. :frown1::mad: From the first I assumed it was auto-erotic asphyxia, which doesn't usually require 2 people. The closet bit was a tad odd though.
I haven't read that his hands were bound in any reports either.What's your source yngjock20?
Col Somprasong Yenthuam, leading the investigation, said interviews with hotel staff and surveillance footage suggested no-one else was with Carradine when he died.
From BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Upset over Carradine body photo

When I first heard about this last week I thought it sounded like another Michael Hutchence situation.
A sad way to go for such a talented man.
 

Deno

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They reported that his hands were also wrapped in the Yahoo news I read this morning. This doesn't sound like the work of one person, how do you masturbate if you hand are bound. The would excluded the idea that it was auto erotic asphyxiation. unless his hands were bound near his genitals.
 

D_Pubert Stabbingpain

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Stronzo, I'm so sorry about your brother. Bless you.

As for why people do it, I can almost understand. I think most of us look for new sexual thrills, especially when we're young and still discovering the joys of sex, and when we're older and trying to spice things up.

Few of us are satisfied with one masturbation technique, or even just masturbation for that matter. We want sex, and not just coitus. We want oral and anal. We want multiple positions. Some of us want threesome or groups sex or toys. Some us costumes and props. How about fisting? And so on.

If I heard about a technique to significantly enhance my pleasure, I'd certainly be interested in trying it. I'd rapidly lose interest if I learned it involved something risky, but I'm sure many men, especially younger guys, don't fully realize the dangers of this practice. They've just heard or read about how amazing it feels, and their source of information may downplay the risks, or offer instructions on how to do it "safely." Even if the person engaging in the practice is aware of the risks, I'm sure there's an element of "I know what I'm doing; it's not going to happen to me" kind of thinking.

There are also parallels to drug use. Over the years I've met several extremely smart, well-educated, "respectable," professionally successful men who use recreational drugs and are very casual about doing so. As far as I can tell, in their minds, there's no good reason not to do drugs. To them, the high is worth it--they typically downplay the risks.

[I've noticed that there's no small degree of arrogance among drug-users who are not yet addicts, or who have not yet had to face the consequences of their addiction(s). They see themselves as different from, and superior to, the people who end up in jail or in rehab. The greater their professional or social status, the greater their sense of privilege, of immunity to the consequences of their habits.]

There are also some parallels to extreme sports, daredevil stunts, and other "legitimate" forms of thrill-seeking, except that I think these people may be more realistic in their assessment of the risks, and more responsible in their practices.

Among human beings, there is a wide range of risk tolerance, from abnormally low to abnormally high. We all know (or know of) people who engage in risky behaviors in the pursuit of money, power, status, or pleasure. Then there are people (like me) who avoid risk to the extent of denying themselves opportunities for personal or professional growth. Many (most?) people are a blend, willing to take risks in some aspects of their lives but not others.

All that is to say that I think autoerotic asphyxiation may be a type of thrill seeking, and thrill seekers often have a high risk tolerance and/or an unrealistically low estimation of the risks of their behaviors.

These are all great points, especially the part about drugs and how some people don't feel like addicts. There is no shortage of adrenaline-rush seekers and some believe those who seek it have a psychological disorder, always seeking ways to feel "more alive" instead of feeling content with the humdrum of everyday life. This is probably a great part of why people do this.

You are I are the same in that I too feel that I have "denied opportunities" or as I put it, let parts of life slip by due to my lack of risk-taking but, I am not sure that is the same thing as those that are addicted. Addiction has many, many faces and those seeking adrenaline rushes are exactly the opposite of what a lot of drug addicts are trying to do, drop out.

It seems to me that at some point people who practice this have given up on interacting with other people for physical pleasure. Why would people, especially of Carradine's age, not have plenty of people with whom to interact or with whom he could have a fantasy life? Maybe this is what Stronzo meant by his "selfish bastards" comment. If so, I almost put it in the same class as Heath Ledger's tragic overdose death. I feel so sorry for people that they feel they could not reach out to family and friends in order to reveal the pain they felt inside or if they were so disturbed and depressed to the point where they really, physically and mentally, could not reach out to anyone else.

*Or* can we simply narrow this down to trying to have more potent self-orgasms?

:confused:
 

B_Stronzo

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15shooter said:
Maybe this is what Stronzo meant by his "selfish bastards" comment.

To clarify 15shooter when I wrote "selfish bastards" I was referring to the selfishness involved in heightened personal gratification and momentary pleasure when there's not one person who practices autoerotic asphyxiation who doesn't know he's courting death.

The aftermath of what they do when they go too far and don't come back lasts a lifetime. I'm living testament. I was not only denied the knowing of my brother but also witnessed the dissolution of my family due to my brother being a selfish bastard.

As I've already stated this "thing" people insist on doing to get a better orgie can be done as long as you have someone with you in case you take it too far.

Notably Keith Carradine's death was discussed on The View this morning. Barbara Walters had never heard of it and when the audience was polled only about half acknowledged ever hearing of the phenomenon.

I'm fairly vanilla in my sexual appetites but when one brings in ropes and duct tape .... and goodness know what else I draw the fucking line.

Take up crocheting. At least when you've completed things you have a product that's useful.

Anyone who practices autoerotic asphyxiation alone is nothing but a selfish bastard.

The legacy of heartbreak and yes even shame that accompanies this deed is something with which you leave those who loved you for all time.