Kill the bill and Start Over

[Trinity]

Don't worry here's the new one:

Obama wins with speech-watchers, poll says

Sixty-seven percent of people questioned in the survey said they support the health care reform proposals Obama outlined in his address to a joint session of Congress
​

No, Indy had that one:

Obama wins with speech-watchers, poll says

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Two out of three Americans who watched President Obama's health care reform speech Wednesday night favor his health care plans, a 14-point gain among speech-watchers, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. national poll.

Obama wins with speech-watchers, poll says - CNN.com

And yes, Wilson needed to apologize. I guess he thought he was at a town hall. In retrospect he only helped Obama by illustrating the absolute negativity coming from the Republicans. This is EXACTLY the type of behavior that turns off Independents.

The poll is insignificant. http://www.lpsg.org/2323143-post81.html

 

[Penis Aficionado]

Yeah, CNN is terrible at polling! What does Stormfront.org say, Trinity?

 

[deleted15807]

No, Indy had that one:



The poll is insignificant. http://www.lpsg.org/2323143-post81.html

Ohh like this one:

AP poll: Working-class and suburban and whites lift McCain to a slender lead over Obama

 

[midlifebear]

The He/She and Holy It needs its meds adjusted - - - seriously! Ban it and send it to rehab!

 

[Trinity]

Ohh like this one:

AP poll: Working-class and suburban and whites lift McCain to a slender lead over Obama

Sargon you posted a poll that was already posted so you didn't know what to say, right...so you went back to your old stand by....searching my old posts for something to spin. What about the poll which was used during the 2008 Presidential Election by the Associated Press? If you are trying to say the poll wasn't significant: Wrong. If you are trying to throw that old race card: Wrong. But again, you just do that when you have nothing good to say.

The He/She and Holy It needs its meds adjusted - - - seriously! Ban it and send it to rehab!

You have long been the one who needs to take some medication. Your liar accusations which were inaccurate and just silly are more proof of that.

 

[Trinity]

Question: Why is it caving to Rep. Joe Wilson to put protections in the bill for what the President said he wants in his speech and through Gibbs went even further in this Huffington Post article?

Baucus, Conrad Cave To Joe Wilson On Health Care Bill

 

[cruztbone]

Its time to kill Repugnantcan stalling for the last 40 or more years and pass the bill. The idiot that started this thread is nothing more than a corporate shill who hates Obama. The fact that he has an apparently endless amount of time to spew his trash only makes him more pathetic.

 

[Industrialsize]

I don't even have words for this oneI feel sorry for the girl who was probably made to carry the sign as she is too young to fully understand the health care Reform debate currently taking place)

http://blogs.abcnews.com/.a/6a00d8341c4df253ef0120a5680be4970b-pi

 

[Trinity]

Its time to kill Repugnantcan stalling for the last 40 or more years and pass the bill. The idiot that started this thread is nothing more than a corporate shill who hates Obama. The fact that he has an apparently endless amount of time to spew his trash only makes him more pathetic.

Did you read the huffington post article? Why in the world is doing what they claim they were already doing in the health care bill "caving in" to Rep. Wilson?

Did you hear what Obama and other Dems originally said? They want to phase out private insurance in favor of government run health care. The American people don't want that so to achieve healthcare reform the Democrats will have to compromise to the will of the people. The People have stated they don't want to add to the Deficit, they don't want coverage for illegal immigrants, they don't want taxpayer money spent on abortions.

Fact Check the bill: The no increase in the deficit claim is a sham. Obama and the Democrats are just refusing to count money that puts us in the red! The no illegal immigrant claim is a sham because they refused amendments that required verification (recently Dems claimed agree to some concessions but called it "caving in" ...why is it caving?) Tax dollars not covering abortion is a sham.

The people aren't supporting this reform because it creates more than 40 new bureaucracies that will waste trillions of dollars, add bigger government and higher costs in our HealthCare system which will in turn lead to rationing and further damage to our economy. Canada's system has higher costs and provinces are admitting that their systems are unsustainable and causing deeper cuts in care and rationing. People don't support the bill because it doesn't address the need for more doctors, nurses and medical staff and facilities which will cause long waits for care.

This isn't Republican stalling. This is Obama's and the Democrat's Bad Policy. They aren't fixing health care. They are messing up what actually works with the system to have government take over. The government hasn't run any program cost effectively yet.

 

[Industrialsize]

Did you read the huffington post article? Why in the world is doing what they claim they were already doing in the health care bill "caving in" to Rep. Wilson?

Did you hear what Obama and other Dems originally said? They want to phase out private insurance in favor of government run health care. The American people don't want that so to achieve healthcare reform the Democrats will have to compromise to the will of the people. The People have stated they don't want to add to the Deficit, they don't want coverage for illegal immigrants, they don't want taxpayer money spent on abortions.

Fact Check the bill: The no increase in the deficit claim is a sham. Obama and the Democrats are just refusing to count money that puts us in the red! The no illegal immigrant claim is a sham because they refused amendments that required verification (recently Dems claimed agree to some concessions but called it "caving in" ...why is it caving?) Tax dollars not covering abortion is a sham.

The people aren't supporting this reform because it creates more than 40 new bureaucracies that will waste trillions of dollars, add bigger government and higher costs in our HealthCare system which will in turn lead to rationing and further damage to our economy. Canada's system has higher costs and provinces are admitting that their systems are unsustainable and causing deeper cuts in care and rationing. People don't support the bill because it doesn't address the need for more doctors, nurses and medical staff and facilities which will cause long waits for care.

This isn't Republican stalling. This is Obama's and the Democrat's Bad Policy. They aren't fixing health care. They are messing up what actually works with the system to have government take over. The government hasn't run any program cost effectively yet.

You're so funny..........and a bit schizophrenic. During the Primaries you were an ardent supporter of Hillary Clinton and her health care Reform plan which varies from the current plan by not one iota. Hillary would NOT be happy with you now...........And the fact that you frequent the website Stormfront - White Nationalist Community, a white supremacist website, speaks for itself. No commentary necessary.

 

[Trinity]

You're so funny..........and a bit schizophrenic. During the Primaries you were an ardent supporter of Hillary Clinton and her health care Reform plan which varies from the current plan by not one iota. Hillary would NOT be happy with you now...........And the fact that you frequent the website Stormfront - White Nationalist Community, a white supremacist website, speaks for itself. No commentary necessary.

I'm still a Hillary supporter. And I believe Hillary Clinton's plan would differ greatly from Obama's strategy, inaction, and overall non-plan. Supporting the Democratic plan and presenting your own Healthcare plan in your own Presidency are two different things.

And don't tell me that Hillary wouldn't be happy with me...this is about my family's healthcare. I make my own decisions. Nobody makes up my mind but me. I don't follow politicians blindly.

I don't frequent that website. I cited a quote on a legal case. But that has nothing to do with healthcare. Obama is down in the polls and having trouble with healthcare reform because of bad policy. Obama isn't fixing what is wrong with healthcare, he's trying to mess what what's right with our healthcare system.

 

[Industrialsize]

I'm still a Hillary supporter. And I believe Hillary Clinton's plan would differ greatly from Obama's strategy, inaction, and overall non-plan. Supporting the Democratic plan and presenting your own Healthcare plan in your own Presidency are two different things.

And don't tell me that Hillary wouldn't be happy with me...this is about my family's healthcare. I make my own decisions. Nobody makes up my mind but me. I don't follow politicians blindly.

I don't frequent that website. I cited a quote on a legal case. But that has nothing to do with healthcare. Obama is down in the polls and having trouble with healthcare reform because of bad policy. Obama isn't fixing what is wrong with healthcare, he's trying to mess what what's right with our healthcare system.

You're going to need to remind what is right with our healthcare system.

 

[Trinity]

You're going to need to remind what is right with our healthcare system.

That's okay. Someone needs to remind Obama, Pelosi and a number of Democrats as well. 80% of Americans with health insurance are happy with it and don't want their choice of plans, choice of doctor or standard of care to change. Those are good things to them. Standard of care includes lots of good things...access to some of the best medical care in the world, reasonable wait times and not having to bring sheets and food to patients in the hospital.

 

[cruztbone]

when millions of people have lost their health care in the last year due to INSURANCE COMPANY FRAUD and throwing people off their coverage due to policy weasel words, that is NOT freedom, Trinity. that is corporate tyranny, which you support and promote. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. YOU AND YOUR STUPID , SELFISH PARTY.Watch our president on 60 minutes tomorrow night on CBS. You might actually grow a few brain cells. What a concept!

 

[Industrialsize]

Now you'd think that actual physicians might know a thing or two about our healthcare system. Well the New England Journal of Medicine decided to ask them:

The New England Journal of Medicine and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation released a new report to the press summarizing the views of physicians on the contentious issue of the public option in a reformed health care system.

And you will never guess what the researchers found. In a survey of 6,000 US physicians conducted in April of this year, which covered physicians across all geographic regions of the US and all specialties, researchers found overwhelming support for the public option offered as a CHOICE along side private health insurance plans in health insurance reform.

63% overall support public option and 10% support single payer = 73% support public plan

And even more remarkable, they found NO DIFFERENCE in physician attitudes toward private health insurance compared to Medicare (a single payer, government run program) with respect to:
Physician autonomy in making medical decisions for their patients, or
Getting their patients the care they need.



Physicians felt they had just as much freedom to make medical care decisions for their patients and meet their patients' health care needs under Medicare, as they did under private insurance.
The opponents of reform would have you believe that physicians do not like so called “government run health care” and they argue that physicians have always been opposed to any kind of government-run, single payer program.
But once again, the opponents are wrong. Physicians by wide margins prefer a reformed system with the choice of a public option.
The survey found that primary care physicians (65.2%) are just as likely to support offering the choice of a public plan, as are specialists (64.7%), and surgeons (59.4%).
The survey found that physicians who practice in their offices (61.5%) are just as likely to support the public option as those who are based in hospitals (64.9%).
In addition, physicians who are members of the AMA (62.2%) are just as likely to support the public option as those who are not members (63.2%).
And a majority of ALL physicians in every region of the US - North, South, East, West, Mountain and Central -- supported healthcare reform with a public option offered alongside private health insurance plans.
​

Doctors on Coverage ? Physicians’ Views on a New Public Insurance Option and Medicare Expansion | Health Care Reform 2009

 

[Trinity]

when millions of people have lost their health care in the last year due to INSURANCE COMPANY FRAUD and throwing people off their coverage due to policy weasel words, that is NOT freedom, Trinity. that is corporate tyranny, which you support and promote. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. YOU AND YOUR STUPID , SELFISH PARTY.Watch our president on 60 minutes tomorrow night on CBS. You might actually grow a few brain cells. What a concept!

The current bills in congress would trade corporate tyranny (the known problems in private insurance) for government tyranny. You are the problem if you believe the hosts of empty promises promulgated by Obama and the Democrats. We are in debt up to our ears and we cannot afford programs that will not be cost effective. The federal government programs are all cost ineffective, and fraught with mismanagement and/or fraud. The CBO has reported that the current bills add to the deficit and Obama and the Dems have just changed the rules so they don't count spending in order to claim defecit neutrality. It is a lie. It is a fallacy. Government run healthcare does not bend the cost curve...the Canadian models are a perfect examples of unsustainability! The Government Tyranny will be rationing care, long waits for care and higher costs, higher taxes for less care.

ObamaCare will not work because it simply does not add up. Cutting 500 Billion from Medicare WILL affect the benefits of Seniors. There is no way to pay for the rest without raising taxes on more than the rich. Costs won't go down from the measures of the bills currently in congress. And standard of medical care won't improve because there won't be enough Doctors, Nurses or facilities.

The only selfish stupidity...is people yelling "selfish stupidity" at anyone who doesn't want to see this country fail and who refuses to go along with crazy. We can't afford it, it won't curb costs, it won't improve care and it simply won't work. Shoving ObamaCare down the throats of America is Selfish Stupidity on the part of Obama and the Democratic Majority.

 

[Industrialsize]

The current bills in congress would trade corporate tyranny (the known problems in private insurance) for government tyranny. You are the problem if you believe the hosts of empty promises promulgated by Obama and the Democrats. We are in debt up to our ears and we cannot afford programs that will not be cost effective. The federal government programs are all cost ineffective, and fraught with mismanagement and/or fraud. The CBO has reported that the current bills add to the deficit and Obama and the Dems have just changed the rules so they don't count spending in order to claim defecit neutrality. It is a lie. It is a fallacy. Government run healthcare does not bend the cost curve...the Canadian models are a perfect examples of unsustainability! The Government Tyranny will be rationing care, long waits for care and higher costs, higher taxes for less care.

ObamaCare will not work because it simply does not add up. Cutting 500 Billion from Medicare WILL affect the benefits of Seniors. There is no way to pay for the rest without raising taxes on more than the rich. Costs won't go down from the measures of the bills currently in congress. And standard of medical care won't improve because there won't be enough Doctors, Nurses or facilities.

The only selfish stupidity...is people yelling "selfish stupidity" at anyone who doesn't want to see this country fail and who refuses to go along with crazy. We can't afford it, it won't curb costs, it won't improve care and it simply won't work. Shoving ObamaCare down the throats of America is Selfish Stupidity on the part of Obama and the Democratic Majority.

Golly T, I guess you didn't read the post right before yours. Seems like the statement i hilighted is a bunch repub scare tactics. You see the actual doctors, as opposed to you, think that the government tyranny single player plan called medicare works just fine and think a similar "public option" should be apart of any health care reform.

 

[Trinity]

Now you'd think that actual physicians might know a thing or two about our healthcare system. Well the New England Journal of Medicine decided to ask them:

The New England Journal of Medicine and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation released a new report to the press summarizing the views of physicians on the contentious issue of the public option in a reformed health care system.

And you will never guess what the researchers found. In a survey of 6,000 US physicians conducted inAprilof this year, which covered physicians across all geographic regions of the US and all specialties, researchers found overwhelming support for the public option offered as a CHOICE along side private health insurance plans in health insurance reform.

63% overall support public option and 10% support single payer = 73% support public plan

And even more remarkable, they found NO DIFFERENCE in physician attitudes toward private health insurance compared to Medicare (a single payer, government run program) with respect to:
Physician autonomy in making medical decisions for their patients, or
Getting their patients the care they need.



Doctors on Coverage ? Physicians’ Views on a New Public Insurance Option and Medicare Expansion | Health Care Reform 2009
​

​

The final sample included 5157 physicians, but 221 of them hadan incorrect or incomplete address or were deceased. Of theremaining 4936 physicians, 2130 returned the survey —a response rate of 43.2%.

New England Journal of Medicine

So really it was 2130 surveys from the AMA masterfile...

But there are a few issues that contradict the study:

As the health care debate heats up, the American Medical Association is letting Congress know that it will oppose creation of a government-sponsored insurance plan, which President Obama and many other Democrats see as an essential element of legislation to remake the health care system.

/While committed to the goal of affordable health insurance for all, the association had said in a general statement of principles that health services should be “provided through private markets, as they are currently.” It is now reacting, for the first time, to specific legislative proposals being drafted by Congress.

Doctor's Group Opposes Public Insurance Plan, New York Times

But then the AMA changed it's mind decided to endorse ObamaCare with a Public Option...but that wasn't without conflict. The AMA has had to backtrack some on its stance:

The American Medical Association -- the nation's largest physician organization with nearly 250,000 members -- initially opposed the president's plan, but backed the House Democrats' version of the bill last week. That has led to an internal dispute that has resulted in some physicians leaving the nation's largest doctors' association.
Some doctors charge the bill will lead to inferior patient care as physician offices around the country triple their patient lists and become forced to ration care.
"This is war," Dr. George Watson, a Kansas physician and president-elect of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons, told FOXNews.com Thursday. "This is a bureaucratic boondoggle to grab control of health care. Everything that has been proposed in the 1,018 page bill will contribute

Doctor's Wage War Against Obama's HealthCare Overhaul, Fox News

Doctors Versus The AMA

This time around it's different, the AMA says. It supports the House bill because it expands coverage to more people (33 million uninsured would be covered, according to Lewin) and forces insurance companies to take all comers, even those with preexisting conditions. The group also secured a promise--although one that's not so secure that it's included in the cost-scoring of the bill--that Medicare would start raising its reimbursement rates for physicians over the next 10 years. If it happens, it would mean $245 billion in increased Medicare doctor payments. "The status quo is unacceptable," the group's president, Dr. James Rohack, a Texas cardiologist, said at the time of the endorsement.

The move proved costly to the AMA. It unearthed longtime tensions with doctors who see $1 trillion being spent on health care but doubt it will trickle down to help their patients or make their practices more financially viable. Right now, Medicare pays an average of $54 for sometimes hour-long appointments, says John Slatosky, a family doctor in Randleman, N.C. To pay for the new public plan, he predicts, the government will have to cut benefits from Medicare. "The AMA has stomped on primary care doctors for years," says Slatosky, who claims he's had to borrow from a bank all year to keep afloat.

The doctor's aren't falling for empty promises. And neither are the American people. ObamaCare is a fallacy.

 

[Industrialsize]

The doctor's aren't falling for empty promises. And neither are the American people. ObamaCare is a fallacy.

You're so funny, How you can just spit this out in the face of a Poll of Doctors that shows them overwhelmingly in favor of healthcare reform with a public option just boggles the mind. The poll came out today at 5pm.

 

[Trinity]

You're so funny, How you can just spit this out in the face of a Poll of Doctors that shows them overwhelmingly in favor of healthcare reform with a public option just boggles the mind. The poll came out today at 5pm.

Because I read the survey.

If I were a doctor and someone asked me on a survey which would I strongly support:

• public and private options, providing people youngerthan 65 years of age the choice of enrolling in a new publichealth insurance plan (like Medicare) or in private plans
• privateoptions only, providing people with tax credits or subsidies,if they have low income, to buy private insurance coverage,without creating a new public plan;
• or a public option only,eliminating private insurance and covering everyone througha single public plan like Medicare.

I might select public and private options if the new public health insurance plan would be like Medicare and the Administration had promised to increase Medicare reimbursements too.

Fact is, the survey didn't ask if the doctors supported ObamaCare or H.R. 3200 or anything like what's currently going through congress because Obama's public option in it's proposed exchange stringently controlled by Government rules is intended to compete with private insurance and undersell it and is nothing like Medicare.

Truth is...the doctors aren't fooled as evidenced by the articles and the break away by doctors from the AMA support of ObamaCare.