Killing Chilean Students en Pensacola?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by midlifebear, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    When I explain to my Argentinian friends that there are many 'Mericuhns, even some of them with Mexican heritage, who are intent upon building a wall between the United States and México they don't believe me -- at first. After all Argentina has illegal alien problems too, mostly indigenous Bolivians and Paraguayans come into this country and take the jobs that no one else is willing to do. And in these economic times there are few jobs an Argentinian will not do.

    So, once again I'm sipping coffee and enjoying the general good will and ambiance that is characteristic of Argentina as I read Clarín and discover some yahoo racist has shot five Chilean students, killing two and injuring three others out of a group of 14 Chileans all of whom have legal US visas to travel and work during their summer school vacations? (It's still summer down here south of the Equator for those of you slogging about in the snow up in Buffalo).

    There's no doubt that the murderer, Dannie Baker (60 years-old), appears a taco short of a full Méxican combo plate, but the photos of all the other 14 students in today's paper could just as well be white kids from Helena, Montana!

    Trust me folks, this is MAJOR BIG NEWS THROUGHOUT ALL OF SOUTH AMERICA, not just Chile and Argentina (two countries, by the way, that rarely have nice things to say about one another).

    So, what's the general consensus from FOX News and it's Fair and Balanced Act? Are they now espousing that all of South America is threatening to overflow the borders of the USA and take what jobs that no longer exist from true, red-blooded 'Mericuhns!

    It never fails to amaze me the rise in senseless, ignorant racism that's happening in the USA. :mad::mad:
     
    #1 midlifebear, Feb 28, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  2. NCbear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,433
    Likes Received:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Back in NC
    I am right now wondering just how far out of town I'll have to travel to escape the race riots. They're brewing.
     
  3. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    Down here it's becoming a smart maneuver to say "Soy Canadiense." when asked if you're from the USA. NOTE: I extend my greatest apologies to all Canadians everywhere for having, upon occasion, claimed to be Canadian. Please forgive me. But it saved my life several times during the Bush Administration while traveling abroad. At least I can sing both versions of your anthem in English and Quebecois:

    (hand over heart and thinking of moose)

    O Canada!
    Our home and native land!
    True patriot love in all thy sons command.

    With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
    The True North strong and free!

    From far and wide,
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

    God keep our land glorious and free!
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

    O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux,
    Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!

    Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
    Il sait porter la croix!

    Ton histoire est une épopée
    Des plus brillants exploits.

    Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
    Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.

    Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.


    To all Canadians everywhere, thanks for being there when I've needed you.




     
  4. vince

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    14,785
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    540
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Asia
    Well your welcome I guess. I traveled with some guys through Africa in the early 80's. The two Americans in the group sewed the Maple leaf to their backpacks to make things a little easier.

    I don't think you can judge the whole country by the actions of a few deranged bigots though. Jerks lurk everywhere.
     
  5. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    Thank you, Vince. On the bright side, one of my oldest and best friends is a Provincial Judge in BC who has offered more than once to sponsor and walk through my application for citizenship as long as I move to his part of the country. But he's crankier than I am and openly accuses anyone east of Moose Jaw to be "a damn frog!" So, go figure.
     
  6. HazelGod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,531
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Other Side of the Pillow
    Sadly, this isn't even being carried by any of the national news outlets I read. And, no, Faux News is not among them.

    I had to hunt down a local report to find out (very little) more.

    It's sad, true, but I don't think you can extrapolate any general trends from this one incident. Within any group, there are elements on the fringes...but I would agree that as conditions worse here in the States, those on the bottom who feel the squeeze the most are going to be the most likely to go over the edge in some manner.

    This may very well be the beginning. The first role of government is to secure the social order's well-being, and an escalation of these sorts of events beyond the frequency of the random could be a signal that ours has failed.
     
  7. morsecode

    morsecode New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    2
    What about the bilingual version?
     
  8. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,002
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    one mental shoots five foreigners, and the USA is overflowing with racism?
     
  9. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    HazelGod, dude! (I often wish I'd come up with a sobriquet as good as yours)

    I probably should have included the title of the two-page article which is Horror en los EE.UU.: Más muertos por racistas. Un racista mató a dos estudiantes chilenos. The frist page of the article surrounds a three-column side-bar round up of Más odio a extranjeros (more hate of foreigners) starting with Wilter Sánchez a Columbian student with a legal travel visa killed in New Jersy on January 21, 2009 "por un grupo de cinco afroamericanos por su nacionalidad." (by a group of five african Americans because of his nationality). José Osvaldo Sucuzhañay, an Ecuadorian student with a legal visa who died a week after being beaten in New York in December 7, 2008 with a bottle and a baseball bat, again "por su nacionalidad", and Marcelo Lucero, yet another Ecuadorian student with a new, legal travel visa who died November 8, 2008 "a manos de un grupo de jóvenes de Long Island que lo atacó por ser ecuatoriano." (who died at the hands of a group of youths from Long Island who attacked [him] because he was Ecuadorian.) Please excuse my partial, but accurate, translations from the two-page article.

    Columbia has actually become a rather safe place for its citizens AND 'Mericuhns interested in traveling there (incredible jungle and the best mountain biking I've ever found). The Ecuadorians, having myself lived in the city of Guayaquil (over 3 million people, but few 'Mericuhns have ever heard of the place), is one of those stable/unstable/stable/currently unstable countries where its citizens are accostumed to violence. But they are not accustomed hate crimes or violence because of one's ethnicity or nationality. Ecuadorians travel to the USA for business, school, and pleasure. They usually aren't interested in taking up residence in the USA, even though they live in one of the most crime-ridden countries in South America.

    The alarm in today's article in Clarín is that 'Mericuhns are not to be trusted because of unbridled inherent racism. South Americans have no trouble understanding having their heads blown off because some thief wants the U$S500 (or U$S20) they may have in their pocket. That's normal. Happens every day down here. What they don't understand is being murdered by some teenagers from Long Island looking to unleash some racism for sport. Or in the case of Dannie Baker, some post middle-age xenophobic white guy blaming all of his problems on young people who (I'm speculating on this part) are better educated and speak English as well or better than he does in addition to their native language. The Clarín article quotes Alejandro Demetrio, one of the survivors, in English, when he told the investigating police "One time he [Dannie] came up close to me and asked if I was ready for the revolution to begin and if I wanted it to begin with the "inmigrantes" who were in my house?" I think a link can be made to www.clarín.com.AR/ Not sure. It works in my browser, but my browser is in Spanish and I'm in Argentina, which probably has something to do with it working.
     
  10. dong20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    The grey country
    As I have long suspected, it wasn't 'mumbo jumbo', you're in denial.
     
  11. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    Hate to admit it, but the Nick4444 person does seem to live in a bubble of denial. But maybe that's just good ol' San Antone'.
     
  12. morsecode

    morsecode New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    2
  13. Bbucko

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,413
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunny SoFla
    The US of A continues to alternately inspire and horrify the world (and itself): film at 11:00.

    When I lived as an ex-pat in Europe in the early 90s, the first thing I did was lose any trace of Americanisms in my speech, manner and appearance. It made life much easier to blend in.

    I'll not be in the position of defending the indefensible, then or now. But one of the causes of this kind of tragedy is the decentralized nature of American culture. Contrary to what conservative assimilationists choose to believe, there is no cultural imperative in our psyche to all be the same. And contrary to what many progressives would wish, there will never be a central authority strong enough to assure it from the top down. We're a crazy-quilt patchwork (occasionally stronger in the "crazy" department) of totally differing populations and philosophies with no hegemony beyond the obvious clichés. This operates on all levels, from the largest macro-continental to the smallest micro-street level.

    The advantages and perils of institutionalized non-conformity are poorly understood all around, not least by Americans themselves who insist on invoking the prerogative for themselves while disdaining it in others. This creates enormous stresses on our society at all levels and provokes a huge amount of ambivalence toward us with other, less diverse societies.

    I made my (uneasy) peace with it a long time ago, shrugged, and moved on in my typical Anarcho-Nihilist fashion. In the immortal words of The Go-Gos: "Can't stop the world; why let it stop you?"
     
  14. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    ¡Mil gracias! :wink:

    And the update is: http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/02/27/um/m-01867269.htm

    Rather interesting that they describe the killer as guy, who in addition to hating hispanos, sent threatening e-mails to Democratic candidates before the last election.

    They walk among us.
     
    #14 midlifebear, Feb 28, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  15. HazelGod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,531
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Other Side of the Pillow
    Very well said, sir. That's the point I was trying to make...thank you for expressing it more clearly.
     
  16. Bbucko

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,413
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunny SoFla
    <Bbucko bows low>

    I really didn't understand this until I lived abroad and was caught in the position of rationalizing things I'd always found contemptible in a defensive crouch.

    I remember being invited to a brunch in a very chi-chi part of Paris up behind the Gare St Lazare near the Place St Georges. The host was my first real friend in France, but even he didn't understand this decentralizing force of Americanism, and the rest of the sneering "thinkers" at the table didn't even give me the benefit of the doubt.

    The death penalty was brought up as an example of American barbarism, and I concurred: I've always thought it was a flawed and deeply unjust way of leveling retribution and revenge rather than justice and deeply inimical to my concept of jurisprudence. I said as much and stated that, in Massachusetts, we don't have it.

    They grilled me on Texas (which is especially infamous in their circles, for many reasons, even before Bush), and I shrugged: not my problem, I said, I don't live there. It would be like disparaging France because of the living conditions in Romania. When they mentioned the federal death penalty, I asked for the last time it had been used, as it surely wasn't in my adulthood. They had no concept of differing jurisdictions, and were ignorant to the fact that one state's laws needn't bear any resemblance to its neighbor's; they seemed to have never heard of federalism.

    As I learned more about French history, I learned that the struggle of the French nation was to weld together disparate elements and regions into a unified whole, from Charlemagne and Francois I through Henri IV and finally realized under the Napoleonic Code, which finally did away with any kind of regional autonomy. We're pretty much the opposite of that. I'm not gonna go all Yahoo and denounce anyone's system as inherently inferior.
     
  17. SpeedoGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,229
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    That was as well said as anything I could hope to utter.
     
  18. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    10,576
    Likes Received:
    25
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warwick, NY, USA

    Exceptionally well-stated. Hat's off to you Uncle B!
     
  19. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    Wise Bbucko, most of what you say rings true. But I may be missing something. Much like the United States, Argentina has a very diverse culture. The biggest problems are between porteños (those who live within the city limits defined by three autopistas), the bonarenses (those who live in the vast expanse of the pampas that encompasses the Province of Bunos Aires, and then the citizens with their own jingoist identities in the other provinces from the semi-perrmanent winter of Ushuaia in Tierra del Fuego to the jungle residents of the Province of Formosa. In the middle of the Province of Jujuy, which a great part looks exactly like the Mojave Desert, but along the Atlantic Ocean, there is even a thriving Welsh community. Argentina is a much larger country than anything in Éurope, second only in size to Brazil.

    There's probably as much institutionalized nonconformity in this part of the world as in the USA. The stress of wresting back control and re-instituting a hijacked democracy might seem a unifying cry of identity, but then the middle class was pretty much completely wiped out in 2001. More to the point, Argentina has very little in common with a closed society such as France. Therefore if you're using institutionalized nonconformity as a primary example that creates enormous stresses on a society at all levels am I misinterpreting something? Argentina is just as diverse but that's not provoking a huge amount of ambivalence toward the USA. Quite the opposite. Instead of ambivalence, the recent murders of South Americans in the USA are engendering a substantial amount of distrust and caution among Argentines. If they ever show any ambivalence toward other countries it's usually Chile (no love lost there) and the other non Mercosur countries on this continent. Although Argentina has a population of about 48,000,000+ doesn't mean they think like Europeans. Quite the opposite. There's a cultural fracture very much like the East Coast (with Manhattan as the self-appointed cynosure of Western Civilization) and the comfortable, well-educated rich wine growers in Mendoza who may not have a Pacific Coast, but enjoy all the trappings of Northern Californians in Napa and Sonoma plus some rather good skiing in the Andes. One thing most Argentines do have in common is everyone vividly remembers the military juntas (backed by the USA) in the late 1960s through 1981 when their own government raided the homes of citizens at every tier of society, taking them away, and killing them as suspected political agitators.

    The editorial on this evening's news was "De repente, los problemas secretos del EE.UU. de que nadie habla" -- Suddenly, the secret problems [of] in the USA of which no one speaks. And of course, a travel advisory has just been issued to Argentine Nationals to think twice before spending any extended time in the USA. Plus, note that none of the South Americans recently killed in the USA were from Argentina.
     
    #19 midlifebear, Mar 1, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
Draft saved Draft deleted