Kinsey Report - An alternative take.

jonb

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You're right, Jana. Not only is homosexuality as old as man, but outside of Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, I can't see much in the way of cultural baggage going against homosexuals. Oh, I can see plenty of cultural baggage going against certain types of homosexual relationships, and even double standards (tops and bottoms), but not against homosexuality altogether.
 

madame_zora

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Originally posted by jonb@Jan 29 2005, 09:06 PM
You're right, Jana. Not only is homosexuality as old as man, but outside of Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, I can't see much in the way of cultural baggage going against homosexuals. Oh, I can see plenty of cultural baggage going against certain types of homosexual relationships, and even double standards (tops and bottoms), but not against homosexuality altogether.
[post=278600]Quoted post[/post]​


Yeah, we're just the lucky ones! I think there may be some small cultures that are more enlightened, but overall the vast majority of the world is still goverened by religious tenets that discriminate against either women, gays, classes of people, or all of the above. I don't know what the Muslim view on homosexuality is, for example, but I do know it's an unpleasant world for a woman to live in. I was starting to have more hope for us during the Clinton years, but now I think we are just too backward as a culture to be ready for that. God, I hate living in the dark ages, and knowing it.
 

jonb

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One thing to consider is that Western ideas about discrimination don't really apply to other civilizations. You see, the West in general, the U.S. in particular, places a lot of emphasis on personal advancement. Outside of the West, the colon feels no illusions that it could become a brain. (And that doesn't include certain users' craniorectal inversion.)
 

madame_zora

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Yeah, I must admit to being rather fond of the personal advancement opportunities, I can't understand the concept of being satisfied with my lot in life if it was one of inferiority. Guess I would feel differently if I were raised in such an environment, but I'm pretty grateful I was not. It could easily have happened, I have often reflected on how my life would have been different had my parents met in India instead of here. Maybe I'm too harsh with my expectations of where I think we should be, but it seems that with all the advantages we have, we could be doing better.

Craniorectal inversions, Jonb you are priceless!
 

jonb

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Yeah, well, the metaphor about the colon and the brain still applies; without a colon, you'd have to drink several litres of water a day, even if you aren't an athlete.
 

Freddie53

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Originally posted by madame_zora+Jan 29 2005, 07:09 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(madame_zora &#064; Jan 29 2005, 07:09 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-jonb@Jan 29 2005, 09:06 PM
You&#39;re right, Jana. Not only is homosexuality as old as man, but outside of Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, I can&#39;t see much in the way of cultural baggage going against homosexuals. Oh, I can see plenty of cultural baggage going against certain types of homosexual relationships, and even double standards (tops and bottoms), but not against homosexuality altogether.
[post=278600]Quoted post[/post]​


Yeah, we&#39;re just the lucky ones&#33; I think there may be some small cultures that are more enlightened, but overall the vast majority of the world is still goverened by religious tenets that discriminate against either women, gays, classes of people, or all of the above. I don&#39;t know what the Muslim view on homosexuality is, for example, but I do know it&#39;s an unpleasant world for a woman to live in. I was starting to have more hope for us during the Clinton years, but now I think we are just too backward as a culture to be ready for that. God, I hate living in the dark ages, and knowing it.
[post=278656]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]
Homosexuality in the Muslim culture is a very big no no. To be caught in most Muslim cultures being gay is much more severe then here in the Western world where Chrsitianity prevails.
 

jonb

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From what I understand, it depends; in a lot of these fundie countries, they&#39;ll forgive you as long as the passive partner hasn&#39;t yet been circumcised.
 

jonb

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In Muslim cultures, circumcision can be anywhere from seven days to thirteen years, the age when Ishmael was circumcised. Men who convert after puberty may opt not to be circumcised.
 

madame_zora

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I have always wondered what an operation on the penis has to do with dedication to a god? Does anyone know how this originated? It seems a common theme between the major religions, so I&#39;m curious as to why.
 

Freddie53

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Originally posted by madame_zora@Jan 31 2005, 08:40 PM
I have always wondered what an operation on the penis has to do with dedication to a god? Does anyone know how this originated? It seems a common theme between the major religions, so I&#39;m curious as to why.
[post=279133]Quoted post[/post]​
This practice of circumcision began with the ancient Hebrews as a religious practice. It was designed to set a part a Hebrew from someone from another culture. The Muslims simply carried through this ancient practice. For all the hatred between the Jews and the Muslims, the two religions are more similar in some ways than most people realize. Both religions claim to be the "sons" of Abraham. The Jews through Issac the son of Abraham and the Muslims Eshmael, the other son of Abraham.

Christianity abandoned the practice early within the lifetime of the contemporaries of Jesus. While a majority of boys are circumcised in America, it is not a religious practice at all for most families. It is supposed to be more higenic. Though some are saying this is not so.

I don&#39;t know the other major religions view on circumcision at all. If someone knows speak up, I would like to know myself.
 

jonb

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I don&#39;t know where it began. It seems to have begun with phallic cults. Not all phallic cults practice circumcision, of course. (I mean, there&#39;s a dried buffalo penis on top of a Sundance pole, but I&#39;m not circumcised.)

YHWH isn&#39;t as overtly phallic as Shiva or Min, of course; the Torah forbids icons, so if YHWH was at one time a phallic deity, it would be lost to time. However, the OT is largely derivative of Sumerian traditions. And in Sumerian mythology, Enki filled the Tigris and Euphrates via ejaculation.

Egyptians, where the oldest known references to circumcision can be found, also begin their cosmogony with Min masturbating.