KKKrazyFest 2010!

[B_OtterJoq]

Silly Rabbit. Logic doesnt work here.

LOL!

BTW, lemon...who is the beautiful woman in your avatar?

 

[Trinity]

Last I heard Hawaii is the 50th state in the United States of America.Why is it Obama is being held to a different standard than any of our other Presidents.Because he is of mixed race?Get over it already.He is our President and should be given the respect that any other person not of color would be given in his position.I don't remember Bush running around waving his birth certificate.Why is Obama,born in the USA held to a different standard?!Your problem is he's of mixed race.Quit making it about his birth certificate.

Obama should be held to the same standard. McCain's eligibility was reviewed by Congress during the 2008 election. Obama's eligibility was not. McCain's eligibility was questioned so it is not about Obama being of mixed heritage.

It isn't about Obama's birth certificate specifically. It is about whether Obama meets the requirement as a Natural Born Citizen to serve. The birth certificate and other issues such as his dual citizenship and foreign born father are apart of determining whether he is qualfied as a Natural Born Citizen.

 

[TomCat84]

It is SO hard to not respond to Trinity. I can't help myself sometimes. :frown1:

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

LOL!

BTW, lemon...who is the beautiful woman in your avatar?

it would be the Beautiful Miss Hayley Williams, Singer of the Band Paramore. Whatever you think of their music, She is one of the best looking, and most talented, singers of my generation.

 

[Trinity]

No, the millions part.

According to the the ABC/Wapo Poll:

Fourteen percent of Americans say without prompting that they think Barack Obama was born in another country...

Now, will you or otter (who doesn't need to apologize for using KKK but can make a blanket statement) be providing the stats that all or most Americans who question whether Obama is a Natural Born Citizen are racists?

 

[B_talltpaguy]

it would be the Beautiful Miss Hayley Williams, Singer of the Band Paramore. Whatever you think of their music, She is one of the best looking, and most talented, singers of my generation.

No offense to you in any way, but that band, and specifically the way she sings is incredibly annoying to me. Any time one of their songs comes on the radio, I change the station. And yes, she is quite attractive, which imo, is the only reason she's in a band, cuz she sure as hell can't sing.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Now, will you or otter (oesn't need to apologize for using KKK but can make a blanket statement) be providing the stats that all or most Americans who question whether Obama is a Natural Born Citizen are racists?

If you can't prove that all/most birthers aren't racist, then you can't present such a statement as fact in the first place.

That's how logical debate works; If you can't prove an assertion is factually true, then you can't make it. It is not the job of the listener to prove you wrong, it is your job as the person making such claims to convince the listener that you are correct by proving it is true.

Now, if you would like to voice your personal OPINION that most birthers are not racist, then by all means, feel free... But that is not what you said, and nobody is under any obligation to assume that's what you meant.

 

[scotchirish]

At this point, I think it is stupid to continue questioning Obama's birth certificate. However, I do agree that the document needs to be made public. Even if there is no law for it, any public official should be required to present verification of their eligibility for their position if the public calls for it.

The birthers may be a racially and hatefully motivated group against someone they just plain hate, but the precedent needs to be set. The government is accountable to the people, we need to remember that. By taking public office you effectively waive your rights to privacy. The public has the right to audit you and your qualifications to serve and represent them.

 

[Trinity]

If you can't prove that all/most birthers aren't racist, then you can't present such a statement as fact in the first place.

That's how logical debate works; If you can't prove an assertion is factually true, then you can't make it. It is not the job of the listener to prove you wrong, it is your job as the person making such claims to convince the listener that you are correct by proving it is true.

Now, if you would like to voice your personal OPINION that most birthers are not racist, then by all means, feel free... But that is not what you said, and nobody is under any obligation to assume that's what you meant.

Yeah, that was my point exactly. It wasn't me who needed to prove that. Thank you for making my point because I presented proof of my statement. The OP has presented none.

At this point, I think it is stupid to continue questioning Obama's birth certificate. However, I do agree that the document needs to be made public. Even if there is no law for it, any public official should be required to present verification of their eligibility for their position if the public calls for it.

The birthers may be a racially and hatefully motivated group against someone they just plain hate, but the precedent needs to be set. The government is accountable to the people, we need to remember that. By taking public office you effectively waive your rights to privacy. The public has the right to audit you and your qualifications to serve and represent them.

I actually agree with most of that. I believe that people will to question Obama on his eligibility so that precedent can be set and proper procedure of verification of eligibility are set up so this doesn't happen again.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

At this point, I think it is stupid to continue questioning Obama's birth certificate. However, I do agree that the document needs to be made public.

The document already was made public.
FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

This is why the birthers had to change their tactics to be about demanding the 'longform' version of his birth certificate, instead of demanding that Obama prove he was born in the USA. He has already proven that he was born in the USA. Their false claims are irrelevant, which is why the birthers have yet to win a court case, or convince Congress to pass any new legislation on the matter.

Even if there is no law for it, any public official should be required to present verification of their eligibility for their position if the public calls for it.

If there is no law requiring something, then only the courts can establish such a precedent. Obama, nor any other political candidate is obligated to do anything that the law does not require. Naysayers who have a vested interest in profiting from manufactured controversy such as this should NEVER be in a position to be the arbiters of truth and justice. Imagine what kind of country we would have if the plaintiffs of lawsuits got to determine who was guilty or innocent, not judges and juries.

 

[Industrialsize]

Obama should be held to the same standard. McCain's eligibility was reviewed by Congress during the 2008 election. Obama's eligibility was not. McCain's eligibility was questioned so it is not about Obama being of mixed heritage.

It isn't about Obama's birth certificate specifically. It is about whether Obama meets the requirement as a Natural Born Citizen to serve. The birth certificate and other issues such as his dual citizenship and foreign born father are apart of determining whether he is qualfied as a Natural Born Citizen.

I've asked before, I'll ask again. Show me where IN THE CONSTITUTION anywhere that compels President Obama to show any document to anyone?????(I'll give you a hint, it's not in there)

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Yeah, that was my point exactly. It wasn't me who needed to prove that. Thank you for making my point because I presented proof of my statement. The OP has presented none.

Yet more lies from the resident troll...


Otterjoq DID NOT present his statement as a fact, he presented it as his opinion... (emphasis mine)

I used it because I believe that the Birther movement is, at its core, racist.

You on the other hand, presented your statement as fact, and offered nothing to prove that your statement is fact...

There are millions of Americans who aren't racists who simply want Mr. Obama to demonstrate he is a Natural Born Citizen.

You proved nothing... All you did was turn right back around and demand that Otterjoq prove his opinion...

Any stats to prove all or most Americans who have questions regarding Obama's qualification as a Natural Born Citizen are racists?

Thereby contradicting your own remarks to me...

If you can't prove that all/most birthers aren't racist, then you can't present such a statement as fact in the first place.

That's how logical debate works; If you can't prove an assertion is factually true, then you can't make it. It is not the job of the listener to prove you wrong, it is your job as the person making such claims to convince the listener that you are correct by proving it is true.

Now, if you would like to voice your personal OPINION that most birthers are not racist, then by all means, feel free... But that is not what you said, and nobody is under any obligation to assume that's what you meant.

Yeah, that was my point exactly.

Seriously, it's time to stop trolling this forum with this endless litany of lies.

 

[B_OtterJoq]

talltpaguy, as the kidz say, you just pwned Trinitroll!

Thanks, buddy.

 

[scotchirish]

The document already was made public.
FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

This is why the birthers had to change their tactics to be about demanding the 'longform' version of his birth certificate, instead of demanding that Obama prove he was born in the USA. He has already proven that he was born in the USA. Their false claims are irrelevant, which is why the birthers have yet to win a court case, or convince Congress to pass any new legislation on the matter.

If there is no law requiring something, then only the courts can establish such a precedent. Obama, nor any other political candidate is obligated to do anything that the law does not require. Naysayers who have a vested interest in profiting from manufactured controversy such as this should NEVER be in a position to be the arbiters of truth and justice. Imagine what kind of country we would have if the plaintiffs of lawsuits got to determine who was guilty or innocent, not judges and juries.

I haven't really followed this whole thing very much, mainly because I realized that the chance of these protests actually removing Obama from office was null. So I didn't know for sure if any real release was ever made, and since it has it proves the birthers are obviously now just trying to keep trouble stirring.

You're right, laypeople should not be the ones holding the gavel, but it should be the right of the public to call for an audit of the government and then have an appropriate body, most likely some judiciary, make the decision.

I've asked before, I'll ask again. Show me where IN THE CONSTITUTION anywhere that compels President Obama to show any document to anyone?????(I'll give you a hint, it's not in there)

This is not in any way an attack at you, but don't even start saying that just because it's not in the Constitution that it's not a valid claim. The Constitution is not set in stone and sealed in carbonite. It wasn't penned by deities. It has flaws, and it is meant to be modified and corrected. I did a quick scan of the Constitution, it has specific requirements for holding office listed but it didn't mention how they were to be policed, but I'm sure someone does it without their findings being contested.

I'm an ignorant kid, I'm sure there is some department of our government that is charged with ensuring that those running for or in office meet the requirements and that by the FOIA these findings should be available to the public. Perhaps that is already the case in which case my argument is unnecessary.

Never-the-less, my whole point is that, as the FOIA recognized, the public has the right to question and review the actions of our government, including the eligibility of it's officials. It is not up to the public to make any rulings on what is found but are able to get the appropriate people to.

 

[TomCat84]

I haven't really followed this whole thing very much, mainly because I realized that the chance of these protests actually removing Obama from office was null. So I didn't know for sure if any real release was ever made, and since it has it proves the birthers are obviously now just trying to keep trouble stirring.

You're right, laypeople should not be the ones holding the gavel, but it should be the right of the public to call for an audit of the government and then have an appropriate body, most likely some judiciary, make the decision.




This is not in any way an attack at you, but don't even start saying that just because it's not in the Constitution that it's not a valid claim. The Constitution is not set in stone and sealed in carbonite. It wasn't penned by deities. It has flaws, and it is meant to be modified and corrected. I did a quick scan of the Constitution, it has specific requirements for holding office listed but it didn't mention how they were to be policed, but I'm sure someone does it without their findings being contested.

I'm an ignorant kid, I'm sure there is some department of our government that is charged with ensuring that those running for or in office meet the requirements and that by the FOIA these findings should be available to the public. Perhaps that is already the case in which case my argument is unnecessary.

Never-the-less, my whole point is that, as the FOIA recognized, the public has the right to question and review the actions of our government, including the eligibility of it's officials. It is not up to the public to make any rulings on what is found but are able to get the appropriate people to.

Exactly correct, but I think we're all wondering why the citizenship issue, and the suggestion that all future candidates present their birth certificates in order to run for office, suddenly start mysteriously popping up when a dark skinned President is elected.

 

[TomCat84]

All this talk about WHERE he was born is irrelevant anyway. His mother was a US citizen, and unless I'm mistaken, anyone who is born to a US citizen is himself a natural born citizen, thus satisfying the requirement that the President be a natural-born US citizen. Who cares if he was born in Kenya, Hawaii, or the planet Vulcan? He's still a natural born citizen. End of story.

 

[vince]

It would be just hilarious if America finally got a half-decent President and he turned out to be a damned foreigner! And Black!

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

No offense to you in any way, but that band, and specifically the way she sings is incredibly annoying to me. Any time one of their songs comes on the radio, I change the station. And yes, she is quite attractive, which imo, is the only reason she's in a band, cuz she sure as hell can't sing.

Bitch please:biggrin1: She is actually a very good technical singer. An opinion is an opinion so ill let you have yours, but i think she is far more than a pretty face. Then again, im infatuated.


(OMG! I allowed someone an opinion in the politics forum! Here is how that post should have gone:

You Libertard, show me some facts that says you dont like the band! I want an article from a reputable source, that is Faux news or CNN, which we all know is a socialist organisation powered by the methane gas that escaped Stalin after death...

YOU TROLL!!!)

I apologise. Im very excitable today.:smile:

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

It would be just hilarious if America finally got a half-decent President and he turned out to be a damned foreigner! And Black!

I think they could deal with Foreign. I mean, President Terminator? hello!

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^I get the distinct impression that to the birthers, a white foreigner > black American.

Bitch please:biggrin1: She is actually a very good technical singer. An opinion is an opinion so ill let you have yours, but i think she is far more than a pretty face. Then again, im infatuated.


(OMG! I allowed someone an opinion in the politics forum! Here is how that post should have gone:

You Libertard, show me some facts that says you dont like the band! I want an article from a reputable source, that is Faux news or CNN, which we all know is a socialist organisation powered by the methane gas that escaped Stalin after death...

YOU TROLL!!!)

I apologise. Im very excitable today.:smile:

lol... Accordingly, I was supposed to shout you down in similar fashion... lol

Miss Hayley Williams IS a hottie though! :beerchug: