Lack of action for Gulf disappointing

[ColoradoGuy]

Just wondering where all the telethon benefits with celebrities & musicians giving speeches on the poor fisherman, wildlife, beaches, job losses, out-of-business restaurants, shrimp exports & sabotaged Gulf economy? It's odd that these peeps are so quick to help Haiti & other countries...but demonstrate a remarkable apathy and malaise when it comes to assisting our own...

And, you starinvestor? What exactly have you done to aid in making the situation better? Agitating doesn't count.

 

[sbat]

Well if those dumb ass shimpers would just put their relief checks into BP stock and prudently cover their asses with some puts, they wouldn't need any help now would they? Why don't they just call their brokers and modify their investment plans instead of whining about BP and Obama?

Not a bad idea actually. Although they probably have too many immediate expenses to spare the cash to do this.

 

[big_tits4big_dicks]

Why is it when a celeb shows they are a person with thoughts, and feelings, and emotions people get so upset? Even the act of not talking pisses people off. When I make a name for myself, I'm giving up the internet. I never read my reviews, and I will never google myself. The things people criticize them for would just kill a sensitive girl like me. BP has a lot of money, and there are a lot of scientists in the world. They could have had plans, and backup for when this disaster happened. They didn't, 11 people were killed, and our ocean is being ruined (thank god it has bounced back before, and will again) Don't give BP your business, that is the only way to take down a company, we do have the power, it's convincing people of it...

 

[sbat]

They just be playa haters

Why is it when a celeb shows they are a person with thoughts, and feelings, and emotions people get so upset? Even the act of not talking pisses people off. When I make a name for myself, I'm giving up the internet. I never read my reviews, and I will never google myself. The things people criticize them for would just kill a sensitive girl like me. BP has a lot of money, and there are a lot of scientists in the world. They could have had plans, and backup for when this disaster happened. They didn't, 11 people were killed, and our ocean is being ruined (thank god it has bounced back before, and will again) Don't give BP your business, that is the only way to take down a company, we do have the power, it's convincing people of it...

 

[B_starinvestor]

And, you starinvestor? What exactly have you done to aid in making the situation better? Agitating doesn't count.

I didn't set a precedent by organizing publicity campaigns for overseas natural disasters.

 

[ColoradoGuy]

I didn't set a precedent by organizing publicity campaigns for overseas natural disasters.

I'm sure your absence of action regarding any overseas natural disaster is well-established. My point was to inquire why you feel such a deep-seated need to be an agitator. But... since you brought it up, let's talk about those celebrities you seem to dislike.

You indict celebrities, presumably because they have "organiz[ed] publicity campaigns for overseas natural disasters".

Not to nitpick, but I'm not sure they're always "publicity campaigns". Sean Penn has been in Haiti for much of the past few months orchestrating the use of his personal funds to help rebuild that country. With the exception of two mentions on CNN that I saw and a 60 Minutes feature on it, I don't think he's been out there 'blowing his horn' about what he's doing... in fact, I heard a critique on talk radio that he wasn't vocal enough. Nonetheless, humanitarian efforts like his should be applauded, not ridiculed. Susan Sarandon has been recognized for her personal work for and support of Action Against Hunger -- an international aid program that reaches a huge number of people in the third world. Oprah Winfrey has used her personal funds and her staff to create a school for impoverished girls in South Africa. (Okay, you didn't mention Oprah, but I bring her up because she's spent $50 million through her Angel Network foundation on humanitarian efforts worldwide including her school and I think that is meaningful.)

I'm not arguing that these celebrities didn't get publicity for their actions. Of course they did... we live in a celebrity-obsessed culture. A celebrity helping out by making appearances on behalf of a charity or donating their time and effort to a charity is, by default, newsworthy. And I assert that publicity isn't bad. It served -- in all three cases I mention above -- as a catalyst for action to render aid, address a chronic problem, or make the world a better place. In some cases, raising public awareness is more important than any other action. Take another example: Darfur. The tragedy and the lives lost there would have escaped the scrutiny of most of the world if it hadn't been for a well-organized media campaign highly influenced by George Clooney (and others) to call attention to the situation and raise the issue's profile in the public's mind... eventually winning some (albeit much too late) international action.

As I studied your original post and response, it occurred to me that your beef might be with the concept of "doing good". I know charity doesn't command a large presence in the Objectivist landscape (forgive me for projecting an Ayn Rand sensibility on you, but I think it is an accurate projection to make). However, charity is pretty cemented in our global viewpoint... the Bible, the Koran, and the Teachings of the Buddha all promote a personal responsibility for the well-being of others. We learn it from our parents, our schools, our religious institutions, and our fraternal and social organizations. It permeates every aspect of our society and is not a left/right, democrat/republican ideal.

So, back to your point. You're upset that these celebrities do things for "overseas natural disasters" but haven't done something about the Gulf.

Let's bypass the obvious that this wasn't a "natural disaster" for a moment.

Eleven workers on the Deepwater Horizon platform tragically lost their lives, and certainly nothing will ever adequately address that or compensate for it. However, Edward Markey (D-Mass.) and other members of the House Energy and Commerce committee have vowed to reform the Death on the High Seas Act, penned in 1920, which limits wrongful death liability more than three miles offshore. Even with that aside (because there is some debate about the ability to retroactively change a law), we are nothing in these United States if not litigious and I'm sure the settlements between Transocean (the owner of Deepwater Horizon), BP PLC and these workers' families will be fair. So, I'm not sure "celebrity firepower" is needed for the families.

A tragic loss of animal and plant life has occurred (and continues) with far-reaching environmental and economic impacts. BP PLC has stated on multiple occasions that it will address all legitimate claims. This presumably means that the EPA, the Gulf States, Greenpeace, and anyone -- all the way down to the one-man shrimper operation -- are going to be able to file a claim against BP PLC and have that claim evaluated and potentially (if the President prevails in his discussions with BP today) adjudicated. I have no knowledge of or ability to understand the sausage-making details of that whole process, but suffice to say... here again, "celebrity firepower" may not be required.

You also said:

It's odd that these peeps are so quick to help Haiti & other countries...but demonstrate a remarkable apathy and malaise when it comes to assisting our own...

I can't help but hear a xenophobic diatribe forming in your mind when I read this. I don't think there is anything odd about how any of these individuals have responded to "Haiti & other countries". I don't think they've demonstrated any apathy or malaise when it comes to assisting our own, either. Perhaps you'd like to share with us your knowledge of them turning their backs against Americans in general, or the Gulf situation specifically?

Let me tell you about two US focused charitable efforts that I am personally aware of...

I recently traveled to New Orleans and saw first-hand the work completed by Make It Right, Brad Pitt's foundation to assist the rebuilding efforts in the Lower Ninth Ward. In December 2006, Pitt brought in experts to creatively think about ways to rebuild using green and affordable housing for Hurricane Katrina victims. Today, the foundation continues to build new homes for displaced residents of New Orleans. It's astounding, it's inspiring and... it's instructive. People who rally behind a common cause can make a difference.

Because one of my clients is in Worcester, MA, I've attended several events there including one where the actor Denis Leary was mentioned. Leary created The Leary Firefighters Foundation in response to a fire that broke out in an abandoned warehouse in downtown Worcester in 1999. His foundation focuses on keeping firefighters safe by funding up-to-date equipment and training. Simple, small, and focused but nonetheless important.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of celebrities that focus on domestic efforts. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of ordinary Americans who volunteer with their time, donate their money, or lend their support to domestic charitable causes.

My whole point with my original response to you was to ask what you've done specifically to address the situation in the Gulf since you found these celebrities "lack of action" so disappointing. You seem to display a "Chico and the Man" attitude... that it's not "your job" but my friend, it is all of our jobs.

As to me and mine: there is not now anything I can see where my dollars can directly assist the Gulf situation, BUT... there are steps we're taking to address the bigger picture:

• we've moved up our plans to put solar on our rooftop by 2 years and will generate approximately 30% of our overall needs from solar by 2012,
• six months ago, we purchased a hybrid vehicle and will not buy a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle again, and
• we've made a pledge to reduce our overall driving by eliminating some of our short trips or combining them with other planned car use.

Our efforts are admittedly small and insignificant on their own, but if I can make a small dent in our own consumption of oil by doing these things, then it is a start. If our efforts are combined with the efforts of others, we may be able to make a difference.

I think our country would do well to consider the Deepwater Horizon incident not as a fluke, but as a predictably possible outcome of drilling for oil so deep. The situation in the Gulf should be a wake-up call to the country and we should be finding, funding and deploying technologies that help reduce our overall dependence on oil. We know our oil reserves are finite; it may make for great day-trading opportunities, but really... I'm sure even you would agree there is significant profit to be made over the long-term in energy technologies that aren't carbon-based.

As to celebrities, I'm quite glad that they are around to champion causes that are important to them. If we all were able to imitate their example to some small degree and take action instead of using our time to criticize them, maybe the world would be a better place to live. Just food for thought... but back to the original question, starinvestor:

Since you find this issue important enough to grouse about, what exactly have you done to aid in making the situation better? And we're not talking about the jackass celebrities you feel so qualified to judge... we're talking about YOU.

 

[B_OtterJoq]

and about Al Franken...

It's obvious from the quote you cited that star knows NOTHING about Al Franken and how he's viewed by people on both sides of the aisle.

I'm not surprised.

 

[B_starinvestor]

...........................
Since you find this issue important enough to grouse about, what exactly have you done to aid in making the situation better? And we're not talking about the jackass celebrities you feel so qualified to judge... we're talking about YOU.

I'm having solar panels installed on my roof, and will be completely off the grid by August.

BTW, good post.

I stand by my statement that a number of these celebrities that are all too happy to assist third world countries, etc., might oughta help out some of those devastated by the BP oil spill.

After all, who is paying to go see their horrific movies and ultimately financing their $20 million paydays? Perhaps they might circulate some of that Hollywood funny money back to the people that put them in the limelight to begin with.:smile:

 

[B_starinvestor]

It's obvious from the quote you cited that star knows NOTHING about Al Franken and how he's viewed by people on both sides of the aisle.

I'm not surprised.

Obviously you don't have the faintest clue about what 'the other side of the aisle' thinks of Al Franken

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Obviously you don't have the faintest clue about what 'the other side of the aisle' thinks of Al Franken

Oooooh, let me take a stab at it. I'm sure frequent use of the 6-letter F-Word have been used, among other inflammatory adjectives. Am I close?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the Hatfields think of the McCoys, star. Let's not try to make a Nancy Drew mystery out of something anyone could have learned off of Dora The Explorer.

 

[HazelGod]

I'm sure frequent use of the 6-letter F-Word have been used, among other inflammatory adjectives.

Franken?

:lmao:

 

[midlifebear]

Starinvestor thinks he's going to be generating all his own electricity and be energy independent by August? Well, keep us up to date on that, pooky. And by all means be honest about the CCRs in your neighborhood, paperwork required by your local power company, county, State, and the EPA -- not to mention that you'll still be connected to the grid of your local power company. You may be lucky to live in a part of the USA where it's easier to install solar panels on your roof. There are such places, but not many. Have you any idea how many solar panels are necessary, the azmuth toward the sun, and the real potential of producing the energy you're going to need to produce and convert from DC to AC so you can lurk on the Internet, run your dishwasher while your mother vacuums the cookie crumbs around your home "office", and keep the electrical heat/air conditioning working as your water heater constantly heats water and not trip the fuse box every five minutes? I seriously doubt it. And if it is your local power company that is being so "kind" to install a solar system, trust me that the nickels and dimes are not stacked in your favor.

Going solar is easy to say. It's a bit more complicated to install (unless you been duped by some guy hawking solar systems at your local Lowes or Home Depot whose company charges four to ten times the actual cost of materials and installation). And I seriously doubt you'll be producing enough juice to trickle any back onto your local grid.

I may be wrong. But I'm certain I know a Hell of a lot more than most (especially you) on how to "get off the grid." Your adventure will be interesting. I sincerely wish you all the good luck in the world if, indeed, you are installing some solar panels.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Starinvestor thinks he's going to be generating all his own electricity and be energy independent by August? Well, keep us up to date on that, pooky. And by all means be honest about the CCRs in your neighborhood, paperwork required by your local power company, county, State, and the EPA -- not to mention that you'll still be connected to the grid of your local power company. You may be lucky to live in a part of the USA where it's easier to install solar panels on your roof. There are such places, but not many. Have you any idea how many solar panels are necessary, the azmuth toward the sun, and the real potential of producing the energy you're going to need to produce and convert from DC to AC so you can lurk on the Internet, run your dishwasher while your mother vacuums the cookie crumbs around your home "office", and keep the electrical heat/air conditioning working as your water heater constantly heats water and not trip the fuse box every five minutes? I seriously doubt it. And if it is your local power company that is being so "kind" to install a solar system, trust me that the nickels and dimes are not stacked in your favor.

Going solar is easy to say. It's a bit more complicated to install (unless you been duped by some guy hawking solar systems at your local Lowes or Home Depot whose company charges four to ten times the actual cost of materials and installation). And I seriously doubt you'll be producing enough juice to trickle any back onto your local grid.

I may be wrong. But I'm certain I know a Hell of a lot more than most (especially you) on how to "get off the grid." Your adventure will be interesting. I sincerely wish you all the good luck in the world if, indeed, you are installing some solar panels.

let me know if you would like me to PM you the info. I have it.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Franken?

:lmao:

That was seven, silly. :biggrin1:

 

[B_talltpaguy]

let me know if you would like me to PM you the info. I have it.

Why keep such things private? That's useful info for anyone... Just make a thread in etc, etc and link to it here...

 

[B_starinvestor]

Why keep such things private? That's useful info for anyone... Just make a thread in etc, etc and link to it here...

Okay, I'll get the info together and post it as a thread - I guess in Etc. Etc.?

 

[B_talltpaguy]

That's where I would put it... I think it would be a discussion that would actually be interesting, as opposed to the constant partisan yip yap that occurs here.

 

[ColoradoGuy]

I stand by my statement that a number of these celebrities that are all too happy to assist third world countries, etc., might oughta help out some of those devastated by the BP oil spill.

I appreciate that starinvestor is doing something besides grousing about what he perceives as an unhealthy predilection for foreign charity work by celebrities. Just as he will stand by his statement, I'll stand by mine: I'm not sure what any celebrity could about the Gulf oil spill that is not currently being done. This disaster is man-made and as a result, it isn't quite like an earthquake or a typhoon. It even pales in comparison to other man-made disasters like civil war or widespread famine. We should thank God that we don't have any of those things to worry about on our shores and (IMHO) we should be grateful that celebrities do step up when they happen to others.

Have you any idea how many solar panels are necessary, the azmuth toward the sun, and the real potential of producing the energy you're going to need to produce and convert from DC to AC so you can lurk on the Internet, run your dishwasher while your mother vacuums the cookie crumbs around your home "office", and keep the electrical heat/air conditioning working as your water heater constantly heats water and not trip the fuse box every five minutes? I seriously doubt it. And if it is your local power company that is being so "kind" to install a solar system, trust me that the nickels and dimes are not stacked in your favor.

Going solar is easy to say. It's a bit more complicated to install (unless you been duped by some guy hawking solar systems at your local Lowes or Home Depot whose company charges four to ten times the actual cost of materials and installation). And I seriously doubt you'll be producing enough juice to trickle any back onto your local grid.

Midlifebear brings up some excellent points.

I am no slouch in the science of alternative energy and I thought I was doing extremely well to generate approximately 30% of my overall energy needs from solar power. To go "off the grid" with solar only makes me think starinvestor lives in the Mojave Valley and not in the midwest. But midlifebear is right: selling to the utility is often a pipe dream. In my case, it will be limited to the (at best) four or five days a year when I have the perfect everything: clear skies, alignment to the sun, low consumption in my home and high electrical demand by fellow Coloradans (they do love their A/C). I didn't mention this in my earlier post, but three years ago, I did some crafty (as in: Popular Science / This Old House) engineering work on my house to render A/C unnecessary. That step alone reduced our overall summer electrical demand by nearly 30%.

I wish my solar project could be installed by August, but the regulatory requirements, home owner association approvals, covenant agreements with our local rural electrical provider, structural work to accommodate panels, remodeling to accommodate the structural work, installation of panels and electrical converters / monitoring equipment and cosmetic work to conceal the fact that we've done any structural work plus the 'general hassle' makes my project an optimistic 20-month effort. Although I had originally planned to petition for structural changes to my home in 2012 (the second step after plans are drawn), we're now targeting August/September and that's only because the plans themselves require six weeks. The bright side of bringing the work forward on the calendar is that we may qualify for larger tax incentives.

I wish more people were looking at the "Gulf" situation (not just the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, but the looming political and production issues associated with the Persian Gulf) and decide that now is the time to step up our efforts to reduce our country's dependence on oil, but I don't think its a priority with most Americans.