Lack of diversity in LGBTQ+ tv shows and how it has an effect in the real world

[AfterHours69]

Honestly, this stuff is easily researchable. You can easily Google any biography of famous black performers and see in their own words. Weirdly pretending it never existed denies their triumph. Their struggles paved the way, and as much, much better it is now than it was then, there’s still work to be done. This is not Ancient history. Many of these people (the people who fought racism in film and the people who fought to uphold it) are alive today or have only passed recently.

 

[FrankieGuile]

Sorry. I guess I assumed everyone knew about the history of racism in film and television, so I’ll bring the receipts with the examples listed above.

Stormy Weather
Released in 1943

“A system ingrained in racism and White privilege, the Hollywood studios were rarely decent to their Black talent.”

The Hidden History of Lena Horne and ‘Stormy Weather’

Spoiler: Article Highlights

“[Lena] Horne should have been the biggest star of her era…. However, due to racism and sexism, she would forge another path, one that put her on the frontline of the civil rights movement, and got her blacklisted from Hollywood for a time.
…Horne was the first Black actor to sign a seven-year-deal with a major Hollywood studio, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM). Still, due to racist practices within the studio system and across the country, Horne was relegated to bit parts or individual musical numbers that could easily be sliced out of films when they played in the volatile Southern states. “They didn’t make me into a maid, but they didn’t make me anything else either,” Horne revealed….
The jazz singer’s role in Stormy Weather was supposed to be different. That same year, she’d starred as the sultry femme fatale, Georgia Brown in Cabin in the Sky, a role that confined her to the Jezebel stereotype that most light skinned Black actresses of the period were forced to embody.

…Stormy Weather was not a critical nor box office success when it debuted. However, for one of the first times on-screen, Black people were not relegated to humiliating service roles. Black moviegoers were able to basque in Black joy and pain that had nothing to do with racism or whiteness. They were simply allowed to be. The film also paved the way and began shifting the foundation in Hollywood for actors like Dorothy Dandridge and Harry Belafonte, who would emerge in the following decade.

I pity those who grievances run so deeply they are stuck in an unshakable narrative.

 

[AfterHours69]

 

[heinz.friedrich]

America has a very racist history, part of which was segregation. Black people were not allowed in pools with white people. It was considered unhygienic for Whites to swim in a pool Blacks contaminated by just being in the water. That’s not something to blame media on. That’s just racist word of mouth and laws. There were actual laws.

I was referring to your post. If you lied, I cannot be blamed for it.

Of course the media can be blamed. Where does the information of these Asians come from if they dont know black people?

That is what you wrote:

And I literally had an Asian friend tell me that, in her experience, Asians (from Asia–not Asian Americans) were afraid of black people because there aren’t many in Asia, and all they see in media is them portrayed as violent or criminals. Now, this was 20 years ago, and a lot has changed in 20 years, but to say representation doesn’t matter just is wrong. I’m not saying it’s the only or most important factor, but it does play a significant role.

They learn somehow that blacks are violent and criminal. But where does this information come from? I doubt that it comes from experiences from black people.

So they learn through the media or racist Asians that black people are violent and criminals. And you want to counteract that with representation.

If you have no information about black people, you dont assume anything about them.

You only assume negative things about them if the media is negatively biased in the first place.

 

[heinz.friedrich]

Honestly, this stuff is easily researchable. You can easily Google any biography of famous black performers and see in their own words. Weirdly pretending it never existed denies their triumph. Their struggles paved the way, and as much, much better it is now than it was then, there’s still work to be done. This is not Ancient history. Many of these people (the people who fought racism in film and the people who fought to uphold it) are alive today or have only passed recently.

The whole point is that you dont need representation of anything. You need it if you are biased in the first place. Without representation, no information and therefore no bias.

Your whole sermon does not even make sense.

If you need representation, you would need it from other countries and languages if you believe in DEI (Diversity, equity and inclusion).

You as an American person are obviously more privileged now, and you are systemically discriminating the whole world through your privileges.

And this is important, you dont want to share your wealth and privileges with others. Just look at the average income of the world and also of income for the same job.

Americans have more money and power than the rest of the world and earn more for the same job.

That is American supermacy according to wokeness and diversity, equity and inclusion

. So if there is a power imbalance, it is privileging all of you who complain the loudest about it (I mean Americans).

 

[AfterHours69]

I was referring to your post. If you lied, I cannot be blamed for it.

Of course the media can be blamed. Where does the information of these Asians come from if they dont know black people?

You’re getting confused. You asked about someone else’s post about Mr. Rogers dipping his feet in the pool with a black man. You said you had never even heard of that stereotype and said it was probably from the media, and that was my response.

 

[AfterHours69]

There was real social impact when Mr. Roger's casually dipped his feet in a pool with his black mailman.

I do not even know this stereotype. I think this stereotype is probably told through media first and people believe it because of this.

America has a very racist history, part of which was segregation. Black people were not allowed in pools with white people.

 

[AfterHours69]

The rest of that post you posted is making the same points I made, except comes to a different conclusion. You’re saying the minority doesn’t need representation, they simply need not be biased. But in the example you are talking about, the minority is not whose bias is being confronted. The role of representation in that scenario is to confront bias of a majority that affects the minority.

 

[AfterHours69]

You’re saying representation doesn’t matter, but this poor representation of a group of people in the media has an effect. You’re acknowledging the role media plays and also seems like you’re dismissing it at the same time.
It seems like your justification is that people should just “be” better intrinsically– that you should naturally discard all biases. That’s a challenge if you don’t even know you have them. Representation can help shed a light on them. This is just one benefit.

 

[heinz.friedrich]

The rest of that post you posted is making the same points I made, except comes to a different conclusion. You’re saying the minority doesn’t need representation, they simply need not be biased. But in the example you are talking about, the minority is not whose bias is being confronted. The role of representation in that scenario is to confront bias of a majority that affects the minority.

And you realised that you are discriminating nearly everybody worldwide according to diversity, equity and inclusion? Because you did not say anything about it.

I made the point of privilege and DEI, which you ignored. It does not matter if you are a minority.

The whole discussion about representation is always revolved around the same topic. And if you really care about privilege and discrimination, you start with your own. You have more power and you discriminate through your power. That is why you have to feel uncomfortable (soc-alled American fragility) Because power is discriminating according to wokeness.

 

[heinz.friedrich]

You’re saying the minority doesn’t need representation, they simply need not be biased. But in the example you are talking about, the minority is not whose bias is being confronted. The role of representation in that scenario is to confront bias of a majority that affects the minority.

A minority can be biased and a majority that has nothing to do with who is overrepresented.

You can be biased towards Americans, although they are a minority (worldwide). You can be biased against Asians although they are the majority (worldwide).

You’re saying representation doesn’t matter, but this poor representation of a group of people in the media has an effect. You’re acknowledging the role media plays and also seems like you’re dismissing it at the same time.

Representation does not matter if you have no information about a group, yes.

If you have false information, you have to counteract that through correct information.

But it does not really matter how often a group is represented. You just have to counteract that bias somehow.

You want to counteract racist biases through movies in Hollywood. I doubt that this will help except for those people that think movies are real life.

It seems like your justification is that people should just “be” better intrinsically– that you should naturally discard all biases. That’s a challenge if you don’t even know you have them. Representation can help shed a light on them. This is just one benefit.

I dont think representation does anything.

It maybe does something if you are already biased than it can have a effect.

If you have a racist bias against a race, and you watch movies where this race is only positively portrayed that can maybe have an effect. But those movies are usually boring. If you watch an all black movie, you have to have a villain otherwise it is boring and nobody watches it.

But you should not be biased in the first place,

And representation has nothing to do with bias, in my opinion, because you can also be biased against the majority.

And my suggestion is: You practice loving-kindness that is how you discard all biases. That is similar to enlightenment in spirituality. It is hard but it is possible.

There is a study about racial biases. But biases in general work in the same way as racial biases:
Brief loving-kindness meditation reduces racial bias, mediated by positive other-regarding emotions - Motivation and Emotion

I dont think that movies have that effect, except if you love the biased race and see kindness in the biased race. But that is the same as the recommended meditation.

 

[AfterHours69]

And you realised that you are discriminating nearly everybody worldwide according to diversity, equity and inclusion? Because you did not say anything about it.

I made the point of privilege and DEI, which you ignored. It does not matter if you are a minority.

The whole discussion about representation is always revolved around the same topic. And if you really care about privilege and discrimination, you start with your own. You have more power and you discriminate through your power. That is why you have to feel uncomfortable (soc-alled American fragility) Because power is discriminating according to wokeness.

Well, you covered a lot of things I never brought up, so I was responding to clarify the direct response you gave to a misunderstanding of what I actually said, for one.

For two, I could respond to everything you say, flood this post, but that’s not what this post is even about.

That being said, I will try to respond simply by saying you’re conflating DEI and Representation. That’s another conversation.
America, in general, does have more people of privilege, but I also live in San Francisco – a city with multiple billionaires and thousands of unhoused, and everything in between, so it’s not like we’re all living like Kardashians or something.
I’m all for more representation from other countries! Please! Tell the gatekeepers, not me.

 

[chrisrobin]

You should be grateful there is even some representation on the screen, back in the day the only characters seen were out-and-out comedy characters, flamboyant, wrist waving mincing types.

 

[AfterHours69]

A minority can be biased and a majority that has nothing to do with who is overrepresented.

You can be biased towards Americans, although they are a minority (worldwide). You can be biased against Asians although they are the majority (worldwide).


Representation does not matter if you have no information about a group, yes.

If you have false information, you have to counteract that through correct information.

But it does not really matter how often a group is represented. You just have to counteract that bias somehow.

You want to counteract racist biases through movies in Hollywood. I doubt that this will help except for those people that think movies are real life.


I dont think representation does anything.

It maybe does something if you are already biased than it can have a effect.

If you have a racist bias against a race, and you watch movies where this race is only positively portrayed that can maybe have an effect. But those movies are usually boring. If you watch an all black movie, you have to have a villain otherwise it is boring and nobody watches it.

But you should not be biased in the first place,

And representation has nothing to do with bias, in my opinion, because you can also be biased against the majority.

And my suggestion is: You practice loving-kindness that is how you discard all biases. That is similar to enlightenment in spirituality. It is hard but it is possible.

There is a study about racial biases. But biases in general work in the same way as racial biases:
Brief loving-kindness meditation reduces racial bias, mediated by positive other-regarding emotions - Motivation and Emotion

I dont think that movies have that effect, except if you love the biased race and see kindness in the biased race. But that is the same as the recommended meditation.

It’s like, you’re acknowledging how a group is represented has an impact in media, and yet you are also saying it isn’t important. We should live our lives with love and kindness is a value choice. I agree with that value choice, but the reality is not everyone does. And like eluded to, you might not even realize you’re being unkind or unloving, and that’s another reason why representation matters.

Example: The scene in The Color Purple right before Sophia is beaten and arrested. The White lady (the mayor’s wife, I think) “compliments” Sophia’s children by saying they look so clean. Every black person in the audience probably felt something when they heard that line, yet the mayor’s wife has no clue it’s a backhanded compliment. She then asks Sophia if she wants to be her maid. Sophia responds, “Hell no.” The mayor’s wife is so stunned, she doesn’t even believe what she’s heard. From her POV, she was coming with loving and kindness, but in reality she was insulting and being unkind. She was unaware. Loving and kind intent is important, but it’s not enough.