Ladies Advice

Drifterwood

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drifter, i think he asked women because he wanted to know what's going on inside her head. and there are differences between the thought processes of the average male and the average female.

how men think women think and how women actually think are often very different things.

Did any of you give that advice? Does how women think actually going to make him any happier if he tries to force this relationship to marriage? Beisdes, I don't think it is a case just of what people think, I see it more holistically with cultural expectation and in that respect the advice will certainly be different, as I see that it was in this thread to various levels.

I think she is conflicted by the fact that she has a very nice young man who loves her (this is what she should dream of right?), whom she may never find better as a husband and the fact that even so it just isn't happening for her. His being so fucking nice to her just makes it worse.

Is it my male brain that makes me see it this way?

An old friend here used to say, "If in doubt, don't." Very good advice.

Love you BTW :wink:.
 
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FOXY252

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Did any of you give that advice?...

Does how women think actually going to make him any happier if he tries to force this relationship to marriage?.....

I think she is conflicted by the fact that she has a very nice young man who loves her (this is what she should dream of right?), whom she may never find better as a husband and the fact that even so it just isn't happening for her. His being so fucking nice to her just makes it worse....
((bingo!))
Is it my male brain that makes me see it this way?

YES ACTUALLY. Very very perceptive of you Drifterwood! Kind of what I was thinking myself.... :wink: Kinda been there, done that... And your male brain? Hmm maybe if your male brain said, "If I were female.." and had an insightful thought from it.... Yes, your bain works.

And no marraige should EVER be forced, no matter how much one party loves the other.
 

B_subgirrl

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I'm answering before reading the other responses, so that I'm not influenced by them.


Where the heck do I go from here, will it always be this way, and why did she present herself, before engagement, as being a strong sexy, independent, sex loving, couldn't keep her hands off me type of girl, but only to become sad, bored, moody, and not interested in intimacy anymore?

Before she probably WAS a strong, sexy, independent, sex loving WOMAN (sorry, once you've hit the age of maturity, you're no longer a girl or a boy). Depression and sadness happens to strong, sexy types too. It isn't the sole province of weak, unattractive, dependent types who hate sex. She may even have been depressed before, but because you weren't with her 24/7, you didn't see the bad times.


What advice would another another woman say, should we go to therapy, or is she just depressed and things will change?

There is no 'just' about depression. Depression is a massively big deal that can seriously screw up your life.

IF she is depressed (she needs to get a proper diagnosis before doing anything else), it needs to be treated. The longer she leaves it, the longer it will have to get its claws into her on a more permanent basis.

IF she is depressed and IF she decides to get treatment, don't expect things to change instantaneously. Recovering from depression is a long process that does not happen overnight.
 

B_subgirrl

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don't pander too much to the negativity.
being kind and helpful is good,
but pandering may make things worse.

My experience of depression says the opposite of this. I NEEDED people to talk about the negativity with me, without trying to make me feel better (it pissed me off when they did that, because I saw it as them lying). I needed people who would understand if all I wanted to do was hibernate and be miserable.

My personal theory on depression is that whilst many of a depressed person's cognitions may seem ridiculous and unrealistic from another person's point of view, to the depressed person the cognitions ARE true. Their belief in them makes it their reality. So, you need to work within those cognitions.

That is what eventually got me out of it - trying to be the best me I could be, despite the fact that I saw myself as ugly, stupid, a disappointment, etc. I KNEW I couldn't be successful in a normal sense, but I could maybe be successful within the bounds of my stupidness etc. It worked. Now I'm undepressed, nearly finished a psych degree and over 40kg lighter. And it was accepting that my cognitions were real for me and entirely valid, and realising that I could still push myself within those cognitions that got me there. Eventually the cognitions became untrue because of my successes, and little by little I had to change them.

Of course, all this is just my belief and experience. My way of doing things wouldn't necessarily work for everyone.

Personally speaking having someone tell me how unhappy they are if I'm already unhappy just brings me down more and makes me feel horrible for making them feel that way. Adds more stress.

This was just the way I felt!!!! It was unfair, and I think I recognised that even then, but it was the way it was. I always felt like EVERYTHING was my fault and it made the depression worse. My loved ones would have found it more effective if they'd just bitched to each other in private and not let me know they were unhappy (even when they were unhappy FOR me rather than BECAUSE OF me).
 

dolfette

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sub, i used the words 'pander to' deliberately.
talking about the negativity is productive.
pandering to it is, on a basic, subconscious, animal level, reinforcing it in her mind.
 

B_subgirrl

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sub, i used the words 'pander to' deliberately.
talking about the negativity is productive.
pandering to it is, on a basic, subconscious, animal level, reinforcing it in her mind.

Ah okay, understood :smile:. Least it prompted a ramble from me that, while boring, might be helpful :tongue:.
 

Suavecitita

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your fiance is STUPID! I would KILL to have a guy like you, aboveaverageforme.


KICK HER ASS out...and get yourself another woman who can APPRECIATE the MAN that you are.

Like me, for instance. =D!
 

Enid

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your fiance is STUPID! I would KILL to have a guy like you, aboveaverageforme.


KICK HER ASS out...and get yourself another woman who can APPRECIATE the MAN that you are.

Like me, for instance. =D!

stupid? really? what if she is truly clinically depressed? is she stupid if she has a different brain chemistry which causes major imbalance in day-to-day life?
 

Drifterwood

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A woman needs a brain transplant so she goes to the surgeon.

So, he says, you can either have a male brain or a female brain.

What's the difference? she asks.

Well, the woman's brain is $10,000 and the man's brain is $20,000.

WTF, she says, what sort of shit is that about?

Well, he says, the man's brain has never been used.

:tongue:
 
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Suavecitita

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stupid? really? what if she is truly clinically depressed? is she stupid if she has a different brain chemistry which causes major imbalance in day-to-day life?
Yes, really. Did I stutter?

I don't see how it's HIS problem that she's TRULY CLINICALLY DEPRESSED.

Yeah, she's still stupid.
 

helgaleena

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OP never answered the question of what her life was like before she moved in.

Frankly, she's probably bored having too little to do. She needs hobbies, and if she feels ugly, perhaps she needs to exercise at a gym or do yoga or other fitness classes.

Just waiting around for OP to come home and do all the household work she is not doing because it's not her thing is not much help. She needs to use her natural talents, whatever they might be. If they aren't keeping house, what are they, woman? Do you need to become a realtor, or a stockbroker, or a dog groomer? What is it?
 

Phil Ayesho

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Hate to say this, but, statistically, treatment for depression has precisely the same rate of recovery as getting NO treatment for depression.

Unless she is specifically manic-depressive, most depression treatments cause as many problems as they solve.

Some folks will simply pull out of it, and others will have great difficulty with depression their entire lives.

In my long experience with many family members and relationships with people so afflicted, there is really very little you can do or offer to make this any better.

You can suggest she go to 'therapy', but in my experience therapists are best at fostering dependency on therapy... I see very few people get "better' who would not have gotten better just talking to their friends, lovers, or priests.

the primary purpose I see in marriage counseling ( which my sister refers to as Marriage Canceling) is to get people to accept that its really over, unworkable, or doomed. This is mostly because counselors are, like any other vocation, mainly peopled with practitioners who are mediocre at their jobs.

While I believe a genuinely great counselor can teach a canary to live with a crocodile, I don't think that is likely to be the best destiny for either of them.

If she shows no signs of pulling out of this in a few months' time... chances are that she will be someone who struggles with depression her whole life long... and she may only grow to resent the fact that you do not. She may come to feel perpetually guilty because she so obviously is not giving you what you want in a relationship.. which is a source of guilt that only exacerbates her depression.

You have to assess for yourself whether you love her enough to ride this rollercoaster long term, or whether you need to find yourself a woman whose outlook and self image more closely match your own.


But first things first. The strongest real evidence thus far is that depression is not the cause of sleep disruption, but in fact the sleep disruption causes the depression. This may be due to circadian rhythms, and/or adequate exposure to sunlight. ( people in northern latitudes suffer higher rates of depression for no reason other than their lower exposure to sunlight )


Is she sleeping regular hours and up during the day when the sun is shining? Does she recall her moods as following a seasonal pattern? (i.e. depressed in autumn and winter, when cloud cover and shorter days reduce sun exposure )

Your best hope for her recovery is to discover that her depression is treatable by simply making sure she sleeps at night and is up during the day, or exposed to full spectrum light for at least 5 hours a day. ( buy higher wattage full spectrum lightbulbs for all your indoor lights )


Also... is she drinking? Alcoholics often suffer disrupted sleep... passing out early and waking at 2 AM unable to get back to sleep... and this causes a depression that reinforces the drinking.


In any event... I feel for you... depression in a loved one is one of the hardest challenges you can face. And dealing with it day in and day out can ruin the quality of your own life, without helping the person suffering depression in the slightest.

If it comes to saving yourself, rather than drowning together... then do so.
Even one less miserable person in the world is better than beating your skull against a brick wall.
 

aboveaverageforme

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Update: I sat down and had a long conversation with the fiance. After describing how I felt in great detail, she finally stated that she is not sexually aroused anymore, her libido is non-existing. She told me she has no clue why its gone.

When we first dated, she was on the same birth control and did the same things she does now. I told her that it could be medication (bc pills), it could be she is bored now that she got me, she has become depressed, it could be an underlying medical condition that came up since we got engaged and numerous other things like stress, anxiety, or another physical condition.

She said she would try taking vitimins, going to the gym, and if that doesn't change, go see a doctor.

Being the nice guy I am, I comforted her, told her things will be ok, its our problem, and things will get better......hopefully (i didn't say the hopefully part).

However, what I didn't tell her was I am still very sexually frustrated and am craving that emotional conection I haven't got in a long time. And its very tempting, even though I am loyal, not to seek the attention I want from other woman. I guess I have to wait and see if she gets better. If not, I don't think I can be in an non-emotional and sexless relationship for very long.
 

dolfette

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she's taking your concerns seriously.
i think it's reasonable to try diet and exercise (which can both improve depression) before seeing a doctor.
fingers crossed it'll work out.
 

snoozan

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Hate to say this, but, statistically, treatment for depression has precisely the same rate of recovery as getting NO treatment for depression.

This is completely untrue. I have no intention of getting into a long argument about this, but the overwhelming majority of the research does not agree with that statement.

From reading your post you have some very strong opinions on being in relationships with people with mental illness for what are probably personal reasons, but keep in mind that your experience does not generalize to everyone.

I just find your gloom and doom to be inaccurate and stigmatizing.
 
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MoneyForNothing

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You won't get anywhere asking internet randoms to analyze your situation based on some vague overview. Whether you try to solve it on your own or go to a specialist the same basic logic will apply. If A changed, the problem event, some B changed, the causally related event. You have to list everything that changed and then eliminate the possibilities. Taking some shot in the dark test seems like the hard way to me and it could be anything for all we know.
 

B_subgirrl

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She said she would try taking vitimins, going to the gym, and if that doesn't change, go see a doctor.

Being the nice guy I am, I comforted her, told her things will be ok, its our problem, and things will get better......hopefully (i didn't say the hopefully part).

However, what I didn't tell her was I am still very sexually frustrated and am craving that emotional conection I haven't got in a long time. And its very tempting, even though I am loyal, not to seek the attention I want from other woman. I guess I have to wait and see if she gets better. If not, I don't think I can be in an non-emotional and sexless relationship for very long.

I understand the sexual and emotional frustration (I was both the frustrated one and the depressed one in a past relationship), but do try to give it some time. If it's depression, you need to be aware that there is no quick fix. Depression takes time to recover from. It sounds like you are both willing to try though, so there is great hope for you.


This is completely untrue. I have no intention of getting into a long argument about this, but the overwhelming majority of the research does not agree with that statement.

From reading your post you have some very strong opinions on being in relationships with people with mental illness for what are probably personal reasons, but keep in mind that your experience does not generalize to everyone.

I just find your gloom and doom to be inaccurate and stigmatizing.

Seconded!!!!