Last rites for John Paul II

[prepstudinsc]

It's nice to hear from Jeep in this thread...you've been quiet lately.
Glad to see you around!

Hugs everyone! :grouphug:

 

[Freddie53]

It was a day. The funeral was rich in litrugy, but informal in style. People clapping and chanting for John Paul to be decalred a saint of the church.

But in death, John Paul brought Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist and Christians together in what appears to be the largest number of people worshipping together. That is true in counting those in Rome and true in counting those watching it on TV.

And in a most moving moment the Eastern Chruches were invited to come and play a role in the service.

The two central themes of the service are receiving new life in Jesus Christ thorugh the Sacrament of Holy Communion and the Celebration of the Resurrection that all will at the last day rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.

This two points are the essentials of the faith. And really what Christian group can argue that those are the two most important things to celebrate in a Christian woship service.

John Paul only named three people in his will. One was the cheif Rabbi of Jerusalem.

The day is coming ot an end. So is an era. John Paul has his faults. He may have been wrong on some theological issues or at least had different ones than what a lot of other people had. He may have done better in administration in certain areas looking back now on them. But it is easier to look back and see those things then to look into the future and always know what to do.

But there is no mistake that John Paul loved people. He was an humble servant. He chose a simple coffin. He worked continuously to try to bridge the differences in people with different religions. He used is influence to free millions from bondage of being occupied by a foreign country. He was against war and always fought for peace even sharply disagreeing with President Bush on the war in Iraq. He was willing to apologize for past mistakes of people in the church. He was a conservative on moral issues. But he didnt' condemn those who were guilty of the things that he thought were sin and he loved thsoe who disagreed with him.

Yes, the era is closing. We have lost a giant of a man. The Roman Catholic Church may not see another like him again fro a while. Men like John Paul are hard to come by. How he was able to do what he did the last four years with the progressive disease that he had is absolutely remarkable. It is a miracle in itself. Most men with disease that advanced would not have been able to do anything.

His last act was that he taught us how to die. His last public appearance was at his window Easter Sunday. He looked radiant. But was too weak to even speak a few words. He was lucid to the end and could see the throngs below saying the prayers with the rosary. When they finished, he did his best to say the word Amen and then he was gone.

So let's celebrate the passing of this man John Paul. Let us pray that another will rise up soon that can have worldwise influence that John Paul had.

Sure there are many men and women who have been as good and faithful servants of God as John Paul. But I know of none that have matched John Paul's ability to communicate that to millions upon millions of people.

John Paul has seen the face of God now. He is resting from his labors. He no longer has disease. He can talk, walk, ski and be the vibrant man he once was.

May God bless John Paul. Let us give thanks that we were allowed to know him and feel his great concern for all people everywhere.


We will miss you John Paul.

Thanks be to God for the life of Pope John PaUl II, Bishop of Rome.

 

[13788]

hung_big: Outta curiosity...before the stats come out...

Which funeral do you think more people tuned in to; Princess Diana's 2.2 billion, or Pope John Paul II's?

I wonder how many did "tune in"?

 

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by hung_big@Apr 8 2005, 11:23 PM
Outta curiosity...before the stats come out...

Which funeral do you think more people tuned in to; Princess Diana's 2.2 billion, or Pope John Paul II's?

I wonder how many did "tune in"?

[post=298676]Quoted post[/post]​

I am quite sure it will be Princess Diana's funeral on TV. But I think John Paul's will have more watching it live or on big screens in Vatican City then saw it live for Diana. Diana's funeral was in Westminster Abbey which limited attendance severely.

 

[PonyPete]

First of all let me just say I am not Catholic. I was born and raised in a town that has one small Catholic church and many Baptist ones. Most of what I know of the Pope was what I've seen on TV or read in the news. Most of what I know about Catholicism I've read and I don't understand a lot of it, being on the outside looking in. From what I have seen and heard Catholicism is very formal in its theology and doctrine. I can't imagine the responsibility of upholding centuries of dogma and tradition that is so exacting. Anyone who can do that and remain steadfast in his convictions has my respect. I have long admired the Pope and that admiration has grown watching all that has appeared about him on television lately. The high school in this largely Baptist town let out early so that we could watch the funeral on TV. Was that because it was an important historical event or because even the Protestants cared about this leader of a different denomination? I think it is the latter. The turnout for his funeral in Rome is evidence that he had the love and respect of millions. I believe in his sincerity, his deep spirituality and his concern for his followers and others not of his fold as well. If he wasn't perfect, that only proves that he was human and no one pretends he wasn't. If I believe that there was a man touched by God in my lifetime, I believe that John Paul II was that man. And that is from a non-Catholic.

 

[13788]

hung_big: That was touching Pete...you gave me goosbumps. Thank-you.

 

[Freddie53]

Wow, and this from a high school student. This was the a wonderful tribute to a great man. And it says volumes about the young person who wrote it. It touched me to read what you had to say. Thanks.

Originally posted by PonyPete@Apr 9 2005, 01:32 AM
First of all let me just say I am not Catholic. I was born and raised in a town that has one small Catholic church and many Baptist ones. Most of what I know of the Pope was what I've seen on TV or read in the news. Most of what I know about Catholicism I've read and I don't understand a lot of it, being on the outside looking in. From what I have seen and heard Catholicism is very formal in its theology and doctrine. I can't imagine the responsibility of upholding centuries of dogma and tradition that is so exacting. Anyone who can do that and remain steadfast in his convictions has my respect. I have long admired the Pope and that admiration has grown watching all that has appeared about him on television lately. The high school in this largely Baptist town let out early so that we could watch the funeral on TV. Was that because it was an important historical event or because even the Protestants cared about this leader of a different denomination? I think it is the latter. The turnout for his funeral in Rome is evidence that he had the love and respect of millions. I believe in his sincerity, his deep spirituality and his concern for his followers and others not of his fold as well. If he wasn't perfect, that only proves that he was human and no one pretends he wasn't. If I believe that there was a man touched by God in my lifetime, I believe that John Paul II was that man. And that is from a non-Catholic.

[post=298698]Quoted post[/post]​

 

[surferboy]

Wow, and this from a high school student. This was the a wonderful tribute to a great man. And it says volumes about the young person who wrote it. It touched me to read what you had to say. Thanks.

You really shouldn't be that surprised brah. A lot of high school students are way smarter than people think. Take my brother, who's a severe asthmatic. He's missed a lot of class because of his asthma, and a developing ulcer due to steroids (not the body builder ones, steroids to help his breathing). He's very smart. 99th percentile in his SATs and FCATs. He has a teacher I had in 9th grade. We're both in honors (well, I WAS, he IS). I was there for his class every day. Chad saw him mayb a total of one school week. I scored a low C on his mid-term. Chad, who's like, never in class, scored an 87. An 87!


Jana - I took offense to what Naughty said because my grandpa would say thigns like "Phoenix, yer opinion doesn't matter because yer too young to understand). Two years ago, at Thanksgiving, he said to me "Phoenix, stop talking, because you only talk because you liek the sound of yer voice". So like, when I get the impression someone's tryin to tell me that my opinion doesn't matter, yah, I get a little defensive.

 

[madame_zora]

Aw, honey, it's so freaking hard to be young! If you happen to be intelligent at all, the restrictiveness can drive you absolutley nuts. Many of us have been there. I was packed to move out when I was 16 and I just lay in wait for the right opportunity. (Yeah, that was in the Stone Age, what can I say?) Of course your beliefs are as valid as anyone else's, age can never determine your religous views!
Sometimes though, in youth we are so accustomed to being dismissed that we read it into things when it isn't there. Naughty is a person of deep sincerity too, and would not seek to undermine your value or credibility, even if her wording didn't feel exactly comfortable to you. We are all coming from different points of perspective, learning to communicate with each other, each having different backgrounds and reasoning. I really hope the two of you will make time to get to know each other for the fine examples of humanity you both are.

You have touched my heart so many times with your gentleness and concern for others. Don't ever change, brah- the world needs all the Nixxy it can get.

*more big hugs, you're one of the good guys*

 

[naughty]

Thanks Jana,

Nixxi, I think we have all had moments when we are poised and ready to interpret what we hear through out filters of the past. I think we may have a lot in common actually.I remember having older folks say similar things (what your grandpa said) to me and it irked my very being! We all come here with distinct personalities and preferences ( did I use that word! ) There are many who believe that because they themselves were told that "children should be seen and not heard" they need to pass that toxicity along.
One thing I have learned in the last few years is that quite often our personality effects how we process information as well. When I took the myers-briggs personality test I found out why I process the way I do. I would really suggest you try it . When you do take the test, please let me know if you have a high intuitive component to your personality. I know mine is off the charts. I am saying this because intuitives rarely take what is being said at face value. In some instances that can be a very good thing.In others it can cause needless argument and misunderstanding.
I think now I understand what the irksome elders meant however. We can't equate intelligence with experience and the wisdom that usually follows. My mom used to tell me something that I really can understand today. "The young sheep knows the way, but the old sheep knows the road" I think as you continue on your lifes journey one day you may actually have an epiphany where this will ring true to you. Life lessons... there is nothing to compare to them....


Naughty

 

[13788]

hung_big: Naughty...sorry hun...but I've gotta say something...

What you said is completely true, but Nixxy IS the older sheep.

I know Phoenix better than anyone else on the board and I can vouche and say that he has gone through so much in life that most people will never have to endure. He doesn't deserve all of the negative experiences that he goes through and he has many of them to deal with. Sometimes when I talk to him on the phone and he tells me "how his day was" my head just spins. For someone only 20 to have to do and deal with all of those things tells me he is at par with any 40 or even 50 year old. Whether it be intelligence or life experience Nixxy superceeds his short years on this earth.

But that personality test would be something to look into. I think I might do it. Where can I find it Kim? On the internet? In an institution?

Chris
Much loves *muahz*

 

[naughty]

Chris,

I am not going to argue the point. I have to say I love you for trying to explain Nixxi's perpective to me. Having a kind and tender heart is a treasure in these days and times ! I can understand that Nixxi may have gone through many things in his life some way beyond his years, but the term "old sheep" is relative. I dont claim to have experienced everything there is to know about life but I have probably experienced some things merely by virtue of age that you might not yet have encountered. Does that make me any more intelligent? No. Does that make my opinion any more valid? Not necessarily. Does that perhaps give me a different perspective and wider context , Probably. None of us know what the other has gone through here unless we chose to share it.
There are many things that I have not said due to the fact that I wanted to try to keep peace here on the board, but I will say this . If we are to all be treated as if we are adults then we must conduct ourselves as such. There is no ala carte involved. To me there are certain "must haves" 1) Mutual respect 2) Giving one another the benefit of the doubt . 3)Being as willing to admit when one has accused wrongly as to accuse when one feels one has been wronged. When the day is over, most people do not care what we have been through but they will remember how we reflected it in our interactions with others. This statement is not assigned to any one person here. We all hit or miss from time to time.

Now... as for the Myers-Briggs personality test , you can find it at www.keirsey.com or at www.tickle.com. I am sure it will be quite enlightning.

Naughty

 

[13788]

hung_big: Beautifully said Naughty....*Kisses for Kim*

Sorry, that's just an excuse to kiss ya

 

[naughty]

Originally posted by hung_big@Apr 10 2005, 07:13 PM
Beautifully said Naughty....*Kisses for Kim*

Sorry, that's just an excuse to kiss ya

[post=299255]Quoted post[/post]​

Sweetie, you dont need an excuse! LOL! Come over here!


naughty

 

[naughty]

Originally posted by hung_big@Apr 10 2005, 07:13 PM
Beautifully said Naughty....*Kisses for Kim*

Sorry, that's just an excuse to kiss ya

[post=299255]Quoted post[/post]​

Sweetie, you dont need an excuse! LOL! Come over here!


naughty

 

[13788]

hung_big: You love it

 

[Freddie53]

Nixxie,

We all say things from different prespectives. I understand the one that you are coming from. All to well. First when I was in high school and how I was treated by my own father and some of the men. I felt humiliated the way they acted towards me. But secondly, as a teacher, I have gotten tired of hearing how we teachers can't teach anymore and how stupid high school students are these days. And I am commenting from other posts that were made down the line in this thread.

My comment was sorta meant for those folks and I don't think I really fully realizied at the time all that was in that comment. But it was a "see, high school students are not stupid, they can read, they can think."

As a youth director I am tired of people totally dismissing young people. I taught sixth grade and I saw how mature they could be with their logic and some of them, their writing. As a youth director, I can really see it.

I had a retreat where the junior and senior high school members on the commitee did nearly everything on the retreat including teaching jr hi kids. That is the way we have it set up. Youth do as much as possible. Adult are there for guidance and to give help where needed.

I know you have caught some flak and I just read that you are having some problems according to Chris. I don't know what they are, but I will listen. Doesn't mean that I can do anything, but I can listen and care and love you unconditionally. Again here I am going by later posts that you and Chris made. Not your intiial post.

Under normal conditions knowing that I wrote that comment you would have realized what I really meant. But from what Chris wrote you are stressed out and looked at it from the prepective you have in your life right now. And I can see that you were put under stress from your grandfather saying your opinion doesn't matter. Hell yes it does. It matters a lot. It matters to me. I want to hear your opinion on things. You are a hell of a guy. I have tried not to be melodramatic, and almost sent you this privately, but I changed my mind. I decided that you needed to hear it publically because I thought it would mean even more. So here goes:

I would be absolutely in hog heaven, (that's an Arkansas slang) to have you as a son. I just adore your free spirit, your acceptance of who you are as you are. You are a fantastic person. Any man who wouldn't be proud to call you son is being foolish. I didn't say that were a fool. They may not be. Be when it comes to you, they have lost out a tremendous blessing. To having met you on this forum has enriched my life. I feel like I am a better person for having known you. And I hope to know you as long as I have life.

So please accept my apologies that you were offended. It was nobody's fault. It is our perspectives that we come from that cause us to interpret things the way we do. We can't help that. All we can do is explain to each other and you explained it well. And for that I admire you greatly. Now you know my end of the story. Yes, it was a bit sarcastic, but it was sarcastic toward the folks that don't respect high school students, not toward high school students. I hope you do respect and accept that explanation.

In closing, I think high school students do very well considering what they are put through. Because of a few students who are bad apples, high school students at age 18 have to raise their hand and ask to sharpen their pencil, go to the restroom, go to the wastecan and even get paper tissue to blow their nose when it is obvious they have a bad cold and are blowing stuff right and left out of their noses. Here they are 18 years old and treated like a four year old. Any employer treating his employees like that would be sued under OSHA federal guidlines. I didn't treat my high school students that way and thought it was rediculous for other teachers to do so and said so. Yes, sweet Freddie can be a loud mouth. And I was and am when it comes to the rights and the respect of teens and young adults.

So you see how long this post is. The truth is Nixxie what you saw and didn't like is exactly what I see and don't like. It isn't fair to young people. It just isn't fair at all. One hundred fifty years ago high school age youth were married and everyone had gathered to build a home, not much by our standards, but it was as good as what mom and dad had. And the wife worked from can to can't doing chores on the farm while the husband pulled a plow. They were grown in every sense of the word. Now we treat teenagers worse then we treat children sometimes. It isn't fair.

Your point is very very well taken. And I know that there are sixth graders who could have written that post. I know, I taught some of them in my own room. I even had one or two fifth graders who could have done it.

And we have some 14 and 15 year olds on the forum that I can't even debate science because they know so much more than I do. They can debate Jonb very well on some issues. I just read and wish I could join in.

Long post. But it is for you. I don't know what Chris is talking about in your life. I just know that I care and love you unconditionally. I respect you highly. And I will listen to what you are going through and stand by you as your friend. That is what unconditional love is. I am your friend regardless what you have to go through or the choices you make. I love you like a son. But in truth we are equals. We are brothers before the Creator.

With love,

Freddie

Originally posted by surferboy@Apr 9 2005, 11:52 PM

Wow, and this from a high school student. This was the a wonderful tribute to a great man. And it says volumes about the young person who wrote it. It touched me to read what you had to say. Thanks.

You really shouldn't be that surprised brah. A lot of high school students are way smarter than people think. Take my brother, who's a severe asthmatic. He's missed a lot of class because of his asthma, and a developing ulcer due to steroids (not the body builder ones, steroids to help his breathing). He's very smart. 99th percentile in his SATs and FCATs. He has a teacher I had in 9th grade. We're both in honors (well, I WAS, he IS). I was there for his class every day. Chad saw him mayb a total of one school week. I scored a low C on his mid-term. Chad, who's like, never in class, scored an 87. An 87!


Jana - I took offense to what Naughty said because my grandpa would say thigns like "Phoenix, yer opinion doesn't matter because yer too young to understand). Two years ago, at Thanksgiving, he said to me "Phoenix, stop talking, because you only talk because you liek the sound of yer voice". So like, when I get the impression someone's tryin to tell me that my opinion doesn't matter, yah, I get a little defensive.

[post=299076]Quoted post[/post]​