left or right - what do christian values teach us

[mrpond]

should every citzen be given a copy of das capital before they start their working life.....so at least they would beware of who profits from their labour...... surely the owners of the means of production wouldnt be frightened of one mere book

 

[visualalert]

Well, since the book is freely available and has been since it was published in the mid-1800s, it doesn't appear that anybody is particularly frightened of it. Otherwise it wouldn't be freely available, would it? "Disinterested" would be a more appropriate word. Where are you seeing evidence that people are frightened by this old curiosity?

I'm not sure who you'd like to pay for every citizen to receive a copy...I certainly don't want to contribute. How much of your own money are you willing to contribute to the effort to have your beliefs propagated? Are you willing to contribute to an effort to have my beliefs propagated?

I should confess that I'm an owner of the means of production (I have mutual funds in my retirement account). You'd be surprised how many ordinary people are owners of the means of production. I'm also a citizen (who doesn't want a copy, thank you anyway) and a worker.

A final question for you (not that I expect a coherent, to-the-point answer to any of these questions): what does Christianity have to do with Karl Marx? I'm assuming there must be a point to the title of your post, but it's perplexing. I have friends and relatives who are Hindu (a coworker from India), Jewish, Christian (Catholic and Protestant), Buddhist (a coworker from mainland China) and atheist. Personally, I'm agnostic. Not at all following your link between Christianity and the desire to distribute copies of a 140 year old book.

Or maybe (just guessing) you wrote your post after a few pints? :wtf2:

 

[mrpond]

oh dear visualalert you've missed the whole point..it's more of a hypothetical question..but judging by the first thing you thought off ( pounds dollars and cents ) i think i have the measure of you.
As for what christianity has got to do with karl marx: first the title was to get your attention which it has; secondly karl marx wrote extensively about religion; and thirdly in acts ( its says that the early christians lived in commune with each other, giving away their worldly goods)

And as for the last point you made - yawn

 

[Skull Mason]

this thread - yawn

 

[mrpond]

i read above your head ( i think i know whats coming next - yawn)

 

[Skull Mason]

yawwwwwn


*by the way I think this could lead to some interesting conversation, but until that happens yaaaawn

 

[mrpond]

and you didnt fail to disappoint...( i think i know whats coming next )

 

[faceking]

yawwwwwn


*by the way I think this could lead to some interesting conversation, but until that happens yaaaawn

concur... more concrete thoughts and hypothesis would be in good order here mate.

 

[mrpond]

yawn

 

[visualalert]

yawwwwwn


*by the way I think this could lead to some interesting conversation, but until that happens yaaaawn

I think you put your finger on it, SM. Don't know what possessed me to bother. Didn't expect anything and got less than I expected :wink:

 

[mrpond]

yawn

 

[visualalert]

yawn

Someday I hope to be as erudite and clever and intellectually advanced as you are, sir, but it's just as likely that I will never reach those heights.

Enjoy your book.

 

[mrpond]

yawn

 

[Phil Ayesho]

christian values teach us that you should only behave morally when under threat of harm...or when promised adequate compensation.

Christian values teach us that, although the commandments form a covenant with god, you must be willing to abandon those commandments at any time you believe that god has commanded you to.

Marx teaches us that religion is the balm needed by the masses to sooth the agony of dispossession.

And then he suggested even more severe dispossession as the cure.



Communism, although a pretty idea, can not work because it is predicated on a belief about human nature that is not true.

Religion, although a comforting notion, can not work because it is predicated upon a belief about God that is not true.


Human beings need to leave behind ideas about how they Wish the world was, Wish that they were, and find solutions based upon what can be shown to be true.

Shit in one hand... and wish in the other

and see which one fills up first.

 

[Skull Mason]

Now we're talkin

 

[mrpond]

you've raised one or two interesting points; one particular point you mentioned that communism cant work... how do you explain the economic miracle that is happening in china?

 

[Principessa]

oh dear visualalert you've missed the whole point..it's more of a hypothetical question..but judging by the first thing you thought off (pounds dollars and cents) i think i have the measure of you.

Are you saying that because your mention of Das Capital, profits; and labor made visualalert think of money, his opinion is different and therefore less than yours?

As for what christianity has got to do with karl marx: first the title was to get your attention which it has;

Bad move, DJG used to do that often. Your title should always relate directly to your subject. Many people decide to reead a thread based on the title. When it has nothing to do with the subject the automatic assumption is that you are either a newbie to the internet or a moron. :redface:

secondly karl marx wrote extensively about religion;

That's nice, isnt he considered to be the 'Father of Communism?' I never read any of his stuff. It was my understanding that socialists and communists were in direct opposition to Christianity.

Were you thinking of the much maligned and often forgotten, Protestant Work Ethic in your original post? It's been my experience that you need not be a christian to have a strong and purposeful work ethic. People of every race, religion, creed, and color have what we often call a strong Protestant Work Ethic.

and thirdly in acts (its says that the early christians lived in commune with each other, giving away their worldly goods)

The membership here is greatly varied. There are a few clerics and former altar boys as well as deacons and lay leaders here. When you quote the bible you need to post chapter and verse, otherwise it sounds like a vague evangelical interpretation.

And as for the last point you made - yawn

Perhaps you should have opened with a concise quote by Marx, like the one I posted below; and you would have received the desired response.

The worker becomes all the poorer the more wealth he produces, the more his production increases in power and range. The worker becomes an ever cheaper commodity the more commodities he creates. With the increasing value of the world of things proceeds in direct proportion to the devaluation of the world of men. Labour produces not only commodities; it produces itself and the worker as a commodity -- and does so in the proportion in which it produces commodities generally.

Marx, Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts (1844)​

 

[Principessa]

you've raised one or two interesting points; one particular point you mentioned that communism cant work... how do you explain the economic miracle that is happening in china?

Two Words: Totalitarian & Fear

 

[Axcess]

Two Words: Totalitarian & Fear

And totalitarian and fear doesn't exist in others countries like USA ?

 

[dong20]

Two Words: Totalitarianism & Fear

Yes, because they're always strong motivators for economic growth. That statement is so ass backwards.