Let That Be A Lesson To Ya!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Phil Ayesho, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. Phil Ayesho

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    I think the world should be warned...
    The Bush Threat for Keeping America Safe

    We have spent the past eight years making it abundantly clear, and I hope the rest of the world fully understands... that if any nation ever again allows some little splinter group of religion crazed fucks to EVER attack America again...

    We Americans are willing and able to elect a president EVEN STUPIDER than Bush!

    Yeah , we got a smart one now... but we can turn that around on a DIME if anyone has the gall to attack us again!

    We're not kidding!

    Just look around... Ya SEE what happens when you fuck America in the ass?!

    It only took us 8 years of Conservative idiocy to bring the WHOLE WORLD to the brink of collapse!

    Bet you fucks are sorry now, eh? Miss those "jobs", do ya? Miss your life savings, do ya? Pissed off about having to bail out all your industries, are ya?

    Well you ain't seen nothing, cause if you EVER pull another stunt like that 9/11 shit again... we can harness up that Conservative Wrecking Crew in a hot New York minute... and NEXT TIME it will be for KEEPS!

    We mean DARK AGES all over again! Mutually Assured Insolvency
    Conservative Winter!


    So... keep it in mind... We've shown you just how insane we CAN BE... and are WILLING to be.

    And Now you can see how we would RATHER be... Smart leaderhsip, competence, Honoring of U.S and international law, compassionate and with a grounded understanding of our role in world affairs....

    Play nice and you can have that America.

    Let your crazies get out of hand and we WILL let our crazies get out of hand... again.

    ...and as the last 8 years have proven... when it comes to CRAZY...
    The USA is still number ONE!

    Call it D├ętente
     
  2. Elmer Gantry

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    I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.
     
  3. HazelGod

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    Oh, I am...

    :chairfall:
     
  4. Flashy

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    i seem to recall that you voted for Ford in 1976, Reagan in 1980, and Bush in 1988, Phil.

    thanks for voting for the guy who swept into power and is responsible for laying all the CONSERVATIVE groundwork for all the bad things that have happened stemming from the Reagan Revolution...

    you are the last person who should be making these snickering jibes, considering who you pulled the levers for in your distinguished voting career.

    ho hum.
     
  5. AllHazzardi

    AllHazzardi Member

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    You know Phil, sometimes you can actually establish a valid argument, and I respect you for that reason.

    No sorry, that's a lie.

    I respect you because I respect everyone.

    I respect everyone because it is only through respecting another, regardless of reason or fiber of character, that we can work together.

    The reason respect is so important is because it is through understanding the needs of others that you can offer what is needed by those who do not have what you have in abundance.

    Underneath, I feel you have that respect, but are unwilling to shell it out. There's really nothing wrong with it in principle, you can live a perfectly happy life without giving any respect. However, I feel to bring happiness to others does bring greater benefit.

    But I really want to take a step back...

    What exactly is happiness?
    To some, money. To others, power. It's a long list, but suffice to say every part of that list roots from the same cause. All happiness roots from fulfillment of a desire to survive. Money pays your way through health and sickness. Power allows you to take what you need from those less powerful to survive.

    Happiness is not solely survival, but also comes from security and satisfaction. Security that you know you will survive, and that fact will not be threatened. Satisfaction of desires which drive us, whatever they may be.


    I'm not going to ask you to send food to a hungry person. I'm not going to ask you to give clothing to the cold and vulnerable. I'm not even going to ask you to donate to a charity. Because I feel these things are detractions. These things are excuses. They are band-aids for guilt for not helping fellow man and woman without prejudice or discrimination. The only thing I will ask of anyone, is to keep a state of mind that is able to move the world towards acceptance of all people, of all races, of all cultures.

    This state of mind is very special in my eyes. Because it is the same state of mind that can understand an act of war as the herald of peace. The same state of mind which is able to absolve the negativity towards a leader you did not agree with, but when push comes to shove is agreed with by the majority, not based on a particular action or time, but overall. This mindset is the same which allows someone having a gut-wrenchingly horrible day to let it all go, understand why it was bad, understand the lessons which can be learned from it, and thus has no need for the negative feelings and pain anymore, and can even find happiness within the horrible.

    Whether you agreed with the former leader or not. Whether you think he brought the world to the brink or not. Whether you feel at the end of the day you could strangle him in his sleep... or not. Posts like this do not service anyone. They are funny sometimes, if not for content but for requisite understanding of the speaker. But when it comes down to the sunset, this sort of thing doesn't matter, and helps absolutely nobody. It doesn't even help you in the long run, as even if you let out all of your frustration through such means, the frustration comes back as a result of everything that the expression causes. It is better just to let it go, and absolve yourself from it, knowing full well you learned every lesson you could from the situation.

    One day we will all be able to let go, and understand. One day we will understand that our happiness and survival until the next sunrise is entirely down to us, and nobody else. No matter how bad any situation gets, it is simply a matter of choice to make it better.
     
  6. pym

    pym New Member

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    UHhhhhh........WHAT?:confused:
     
  7. Skull Mason

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    ALhazzardi?? That is a mooslim name, GET HIM!

    thats hilarious...strangelove ocean!
     
    #7 Skull Mason, Jan 31, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Phil, you are all over the place on that post. Its like you get a dozen thoughts together, put them in a blender, and the post the way the thoughts come out of the blender.

    The occupation in Iraq/Afghan has been a drain on gov't funds, but it has nothing to do with the state of our economy being in collapse.

    Secondly, up until late 2007 our economy was very strong. We haven't been in misery for 8 years as everyone says.

    This was a bubble in credit markets, we've established on several threads here at LPSG all those responsible, it goes way beyond conservative public policy.
     
  9. pym

    pym New Member

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    FESTOR:"Secondly, up until late 2007 our economy was very strong. We haven't been in misery for 8 years as everyone says.''



    Festor....Please......get a grip on reality. Just once.
    By 2007 this country was in the grip of an un-precedented 7-8 TRILLION dollar deficit. Add 3 more TRILLION to that figure and we have the real damage figures to discuss, as was HANDED OFF by your beloved Republican Reich.
    Go ahead and wrap your head around those financials for a moment.
    And then tell us all how your going to be financing your old age with NO social security.
    YEAH......you'll worry about that when you get there.:rolleyes:
    Good thing you have your MOM to keep a roof over your head, and cadge a meal off of.
    There are MEDS for delusional thoughts you know.
     
  10. Phil Ayesho

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    Brave words From a person who never voted for anyone who ever served...

    I will point out to you that it was not until Reagan that the Republican party began its long slide into idiocy and voodoo economic theories.
    It was hard to realize, at the time, that the excesses of one man would become the imbecility of FOX news, NeoCon conservatism and that the party would so drastically devolve into the Juiceless Skinflints and Religious Fascists that it has become.


    Bush the elder was actually a fairly effective president... although he unfortunately did nothing to stem the overall tide of de-regulation frenzy that has led us to this bleak result.

    I do not condemn the Republicans for BEING republicans... I condemn them for their CURRENT platform and Current inability to face the real results of their real excercise of power.

    Seriously, Flashy... as someone who's total input into the political system has been entirely worthless... you have very little ground on which to stand and waggle your finger at me...
     
  11. Flashy

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    #11 Flashy, Jan 31, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  12. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Rymjob:

    Your debt figures are incorrect.

    I've taken personal responsibility for retirement planning, not worried about soc sec, but thanks for your concern:wink:
     
  13. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Phil. Your post is a mess. Your post is all over the place. Your post is hyperactive, has ADD and needs to be prescribed ritalin.

    --------------------

    "We Americans are willing and able to elect a president EVEN STUPIDER than Bush!.... Just look around... Ya SEE what happens when you fuck America in the ass?!...Bet you fucks are sorry now, eh? Miss those "jobs", do ya?...."

    --------------------

    Oh good grief. I need a weed-whacker to work my way through this thicket of prose. One shouldn't need to grab a bottle of Motrin just to read a thread.
     
  14. Phil Ayesho

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    Lighten up.

    Your analysis fails.
    Happiness has little to do with the struggle for survival and everything to do with simple appreciation for the wonder of being.

    I happen to think that the ability to Laugh in the face of dire crisis is the healthiest, most productive possible response.

    Bush getting shoes thrown at him was GOOD for the nation... it was cathartic. And the only reason to condemn the shoe thrower is because of his poor aim... and the fact that the man was not a centipede.


    Your problem is that you rail against the spirited and sometimes antagonistic intercourse of ideas.
    That is ironic considering how heavily your post focuses on the evolutionary struggle for survival to define happiness.

    You see the battles between, say, Faceking or Star Investor and me as "bad".

    You are entirely, totally , absolutely wrong.

    Your happy chat-let's all get along- politically correct mentality, applied to society as a whole, would be a soul crushingly bleak landscape of boredom and suppressed feeling.
    A world where every idea and every person had equal merit. Where excellence could NOT be recognized, for fear of offending those who accomplish nothing.


    Sorry. I can't subscribe.

    I would not stifle the views or even the insults of Faceking or Star investor, nor anyone else....

    I relish their incendiary posts.

    If for no other reason that that they stiimulate my own mental processes to better understand my own feeling that they are, ususally, wrong.

    In being challenged, we are forced to REALLY think thru the opinions and perspectives we may not even realize that we hold.
    We are forced to refine, and sometimes, even abandon ideas that we can not defend nor rationally elucidate.

    This is GOOD for us, as persons, as a people, as a society, as a species.


    What you advocate is the Reign of Mediocrity, or, worse, the imposition of a mental tyranny... to stifle the normal, ordinary and necessary struggle in the competition of ideas.

    Get over yourself and your precious little feelings.
    In the larger scheme of things it does not matter if you get offended.

    It does not matter if I get offended.

    The only thing that matters is that the Ideas we embrace and that define our society are pitted the one agaisnt the others so that only those ideas that do the best for the most survive.

    British gentry waged war upon the king to establish that even a King has limits to his power.

    That was not an "I'm okay, you're okay" kind of conversation. The Magna Carta was signed at the point of a sword.

    American secular democracy was won at the point of a bayonet.

    King said that the Arc of the Moral Universe is long, but it bends toward Justice.

    It does not bend thru gravity... It is BENT thru the, often, antagonistic competition of ideas.
    Happy chat is pointless drivel.
     
  15. pym

    pym New Member

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    #15 pym, Jan 31, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  16. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    obamabot. period.
     
  17. AllHazzardi

    AllHazzardi Member

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    You know, deficit spending is spending of money you do not have, normally through loans from other countries. The thing is, these loans are repayable over a period of time(Wait, that's a normal loan too...). The national debt figures everyone throws around are composed of several parts. Part 1 is old debt(the original 3 trillion). Part 2 is new deficit spending(The new expenditures). Part 3 is INTEREST on past debts.

    That interest grows at approximately $39m(older figure, probably higher now) per hour of every day of every week. This means that if that interest went unpaid, the national debt would grow about $340b per year. In 8 years, not even counting compounding interest, you're looking at an increase of $2.74 trillion. That's interest alone. As to the "Unprecedented" value, there's a reason for that, there is a limit imposed upon it unless Congress chooses to raise it. Seeing as it requires a majority (Not sure if super-majority) to do so, Republicans are not the only ones to blame, especially since half the time it was 50/50 with one instance of actual Republican Majority throughout the past 8 years.


    Now, about that "Handing off" comment.... well, if you really wanted the Republicans to deal with their own mess, you should have voted for one. Being beaten in a public election is not exactly "Handing off".

    But the good news is, none of it really matters. As more deficit spending occurs national debt goes higher, interest goes higher, it requires more money to pay that interest, so less tax revenue goes towards new spending, which means more deficit spending is required. It's a vicious circle, but a circle nonetheless.


    But I wouldn't worry. Regardless of what Obama does, and regardless of what every other person in office does, in a relatively short time, it all truly will no longer matter. If you want to know why..... unfortunately you'll just have to wait and see.


    Oh, and to your question about financing myself in old age without social security, simple answer. I don't plan on retiring. One is never too old to do SOMETHING. So long as I have that something, I will be fine, especially if it quite literally is my own survival.
     
  18. pym

    pym New Member

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    UHhhhhhh.......WHAT?:confused:
     
  19. AllHazzardi

    AllHazzardi Member

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    Oh where to begin.... Well, Happiness comes from the wonder of being. Well, yes, exactly. To be is to live, to not be is to die. So without survival, there is no happiness. Survival is the most baseline desire that every person has, and it is requisite for happiness. If you are not surviving, in some way, you will not truly be happy. Now, keep in mind survival goes beyond mere lifespan. We can die and yet still survive within the memories of everyone we knew, and within the changes we bring to the world.

    I do not rail against spirited and "sometimes" antagonistic exchange. I rail against the pointlessness of getting caught up in emotion and hurt when you make your judgments and arguments. I rail against not becoming angry with an opponent, but in expressing that anger in a way which does not further the argument. So no, it is not ironic, because you did not understand, and instead assumed a standpoint. What *is* ironic is that you assumed I was in a standpoint which in relation to yours, you could be correct, the irony is that it utterly backfired because you assumed poorly.

    I do not say your overwrought exchanges with star are bad, just that they are not necessary, and can be done in a better way. So again I am "wrong" but... not. Think a little more about what I say before firm-setting a meaning.

    Mine is not a lovey-dovey talk on peace and good will. It is not a world of rigorous oppression of ideas. Yes, a world where all ideas and vocations are TREATED with equal merit until proven otherwise. Unlike what you assume, not a world where excellence is NOT recognized, but instead a world where it does not NEED to be recognized, for it can be great upon itself, and the recognition comes from those who see its worthiness.



    Speaking of challenge and rethinking of ideas, perhaps you should take your own comment and read it a few times. Until you present a valid argument why mine does NOT make logical sense, there is no reason for me to rethink my ideas. Yours, on the other hand, may need refinement or abandonment.

    And yes, it IS absolutely good for us.

    Again, you assume poorly, in that I do not advocate a reign of mediocrity. I advocate a Reign of Openness. Acceptance of new ideas until they are proven wrong, regardless of who they came from. Not a mental tyranny, but a landscape in which those ideas you so speak of can compete on equal ground, without regard to who said it.

    Still more you assume incorrectly. I've already gotten far above and beyond over my feelings. I've already come to understand the value of events and why they give us emotions, and thus no longer need them, or can pick and choose which ones I want to feel.

    Just as you say, a world where the best ideas for survival are the final result. What I am saying is that while in the past, war was waged to bring peace, and that documents and great events came at the tip of the sword, we can step back and above it. We do not need to have a fist fight to show who loves the pretty girl more. We do not need to have a nuclear war to show who is the strongest country and has the ability to decide for that survival. Sure, they can be fun, which is why I do not have any bumper stickers saying save the trees, disarm the nukes, or anything along those lines stuck to my ass.

    Lastly, no. Happy chat is not pointless drivel. We've gotten so caught up in who's right and what's right that we've lost scope of what actually matters. We've gotten caught up in War and Cold War over which way is the right way of life, instead of having "Happy chat" to try to work together. Half the people in the world who despise the US despise us because we force our way of life and ideals on others. How many do you think would hate us less if we just didn't do that anymore? The UN failed because it seeks to tell war-like cultures "No, you can't do that." and never gives an answer after they ask "Why the hell not?". Instead of bringing others to our reason, we should seek to understand others so that we may appeal to THEIR reason.

    We fight for resources as countries to seek the survival of our people and our nation. We flush out and fight enemies so as to secure the world for us and our allies. We do what we think is right, based on how we decided to achieve these results. But what nation am I speaking of? These are the same behaviors of ALL nations and ALL peoples. Because these are simple, basic forms. The differences are not in the beginning or the destination, but in the path decided to reach one or the other. The start and the finish remain the same, and through appealing to those common traits is the only way we can work together as all, rather than a select group.


    Oh, and just to restate. I love fights, I love arguments, I thrive in any situation where one force is attempting to overcome another. It is in my nature, and everyone else's. Because that is in essence all we are, a force struggling to survive against another force. But we are intelligent, and we can step above the NEED(definitely not the FUN of it, we will never lose that) for fighting by finding common ground to stand on. I do not seek a world without war, just a world where war is never the only remaining choice.
     
    #19 AllHazzardi, Jan 31, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  20. Phil Ayesho

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    Really? I find it funny that you would think that. IT's ONE idea. The Idea, as expressed by Yamamoto after the Pearl Harbor attack, that to attack America is to wake a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.

    The joke being that the Bush presidency is a cautionary tale for the rest of the world not to poke the sleeping giant.
    Not because we will FIX things... but because in our reactionary flailing, we will destroy everything.

    Get it?

    Now - explain to me in what part of the OP do I wander from that single central point?




    You see, you SAY things like this, but you offer no evidence in proof.

    1- Bush used 9/11 to JUSTIFY an imperialist campaign of military occupation. Without the attack... no wars in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    2- Bush FAILED to raise the money necessary to wage such wars, and instead, BORROWED against future productivity to fund BOTH the wars, and massive tax cuts that did NOT result in long term growth.
    His de-regulation policies and tacit encouragement of a larcenous financial sector... his support for off-shoring of jobs and union busting... his indulgence of religious delusional fascist agendas and undermining of science ALL contributed to his total failure to generate future prosperity thru real growth in productivity.

    If you don't count DEBT as "product" ( because it isn't ) US productivity has FALLEN under the Bush presidency.


    Bullshit. If I get ten new credit cards with huge credit limits my neighbors may THINK I am doing well cause of all the things I am buying... The cars, the jet skis, the vacations...
    But the truth is I am simply transferring my productivity from the future, to now... BORROWING on the BELIEF that my productivity will increase enough to cover the debt and STILL support my lifestyle.
    The "strong economy" you claim was entirely the product of BORROWED money and Speculation.
    Speculation that turned out to be predicated on NO real increase in value. ( FYI housing VALUES can not increase when REAL income is not also increasing. THe Middle class LOST GROUND during the Bush Presidency. Ergo, the REAL value of houses went down.)

    De-regulating housing and lending laws and lax oversight so that you can sell disastrous debt to people who have always dreamed of home ownership and never been able to afford it created a speculative bubble... A feeding frenzy....but its called a bubble because there is nothing INSIDE it but air.

    Then a bunch of WOULD BE REAL ESTATE MOGULS... jumping in and buying multiple houses, certain that the prices would continue to grow FEEDs the illusion of increasing value...
    But ALL that came crashing down, didn't it?
    And where are we?- By every REAL measure, the Bush presidency contributed LESS THAN NOTHING... every GAIN you claim was offset by a more disastrous LOSS.
    And the Loss extended to the WORLD WIDE economy- not just the U.S.

    And if you made out well in this...congratulations... your gain was bought at the loss of a great many others.
    And what, exactly, did you CONTRIBUTE? Other than feeding on the carcass of other people's greed and fear?


    WRONG.

    The results are in, every reputable think tank has stated that Republican DE-REGUALTION policy is the SINGLE cause without which none of this would have happened. A policy stretching back to the Reagan era.
    Under Bush, and a Republican controlled congress, de-regulation achieved EPIC proportions.

    GREENSPAN himself admitted that he had failed to take into account human greed...


    The war simply accelerated rate at which money was being redistributed, from the taxpayer's future productivity, to the handful of corporations that benefited from Rebublican power.

    3 TRILLION dollars of future productivity... taken out in CASH and handed to Corporations owned by 400 individuals.

    But more importantly... 9/11 was USED by the republican neo-cons as the excuse for an unprecedented usurpation of authority and refusal to comply with law that would ,otherwise, have tempered the insanity and perhaps prevented this debacle.



    You can continue to cling to the delusional faith in your 'team's strategies... but events have proven those strategies disastrous.
    More than that, it porves them ethically wrong, evil, and avaricious.

    When you defend them... you sound increasingly like a holocaust denier.
     
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