Let's say we live for 80 years or so...and then depart.

[breeze]

This is the Salyut 7 Space Station incident. The official USSR view is that is was a group hallucination. There were six cosmonauts, all of whom reported an orange cloud and seven winged humanoids within it (angels?)

Big claims need a lot of evidence to support them, so presumably we all should be very cautious. That said, while group hallucinations do happen, this is striking in that it is so specific. No particular cause was identified - for example there wasn't a physical cause in terms of temperature change or oxygen shortage.

Thanks for the information. This fills some gaps i had about the incident.

The information is sketchy. I read that nasa tracked the orange cloud.

I've also read that a mass hallucination or group hallucination is a fallacy. That is you can have
6 people hallucinating but they won't have the same hallucination. Or even close.

The communist system is based on lenin's " religion is the opium of the people " or that
god doesn't exist. Some say communism is on an attack on both our economic and
religious beliefs.

If there are photos or tape of the angels the russians aren't goiing to release them.
And photos and tape can be faked. Its almost if not impossible to prove this.

 

[185248]

Don't know exactly what the question is but i'm one of those that think nothing happens after. It's the only reasonable answer to me. And just departing isn't that big a deal. We don't live to die. We live to live.

I ask way out questions at times, all the time probably..and, probably why some of my questions are outside the fence...But I sit on this fence and listen to others answers on life. We live we learn but we never stop growing. Much of the time our minds are so much more capable to learn more, while the bodies that support our minds give up under us.

I think conan shares a bit of what I believe, we are surrounded by electrical activity, consciousness, life does not exist without it. I have at times mentioned why lightning is so active on this planet, and why it cannot be explained other than this is the reason why scientifically it does so, but what is the reason for it? Like so many other things we can explain via science and our minds imagination and reasoning why it happens, why did it start happening in the first place, what is it's purpose?

As you say Jase, consciousness is a puzzle, one puzzle is solved, yet it seems, it opens up 2 more

Why do we all have varying opinions on how things began, and will end is not because of what we have been taught, it's because we are individuals. I am not persuaded by popular thought, nor are most of us, hopefully. I am persuaded on my own judgement and look at things always with an open mind, ready for anything.........well mostly .

We are all prepared for what the unexpected may bring, asteroid, earthquake, flood, famine, even aliens, etc. One thing will never fail us, is our imagination and the ability to create, and try with all we have to make the things we imagine into reality. We constantly surprise ourselves, or the Universe surprises us .

 

[185248]

There was an old Sci Fi movie called Logans Run. In the movie the future society ran out of resources so everyone was allowed to live to 30 years old then they were killed off in a special ceremony

OLd....geeze, I remember seeing this at the flics when it first came out....I'm nearly twice that age now, and reckon I could still outrun the I think it was "Sandman". Without looking up gargoyle...sorry, google.

 

[temptotalk]

I ask way out questions at times, all the time probably..and, probably why some of my questions are outside the fence...But I sit on this fence and listen to others answers on life. We live we learn but we never stop growing. Much of the time our minds are so much more capable to learn more, while the bodies that support our minds give up under us.

I think conan shares a bit of what I believe, we are surrounded by electrical activity, consciousness, life does not exist without it. I have at times mentioned why lightning is so active on this planet, and why it cannot be explained other than this is the reason why scientifically it does so, but what is the reason for it? Like so many other things we can explain via science and our minds imagination and reasoning why it happens, why did it start happening in the first place, what is it's purpose?

As you say Jase, consciousness is a puzzle, one puzzle is solved, yet it seems, it opens up 2 more

Why do we all have varying opinions on how things began, and will end is not because of what we have been taught, it's because we are individuals. I am not persuaded by popular thought, nor are most of us, hopefully. I am persuaded on my own judgement and look at things always with an open mind, ready for anything.........well mostly .

We are all prepared for what the unexpected may bring, asteroid, earthquake, flood, famine, even aliens, etc. One thing will never fail us, is our imagination and the ability to create, and try with all we have to make the things we imagine into reality. We constantly surprise ourselves, or the Universe surprises us .

Way out questions are good. Personally i'm more than satisfied with the scientific answer for lightening. Doesn't make it any less awesome. Then again i can see where you're going with this. What started the big bang maybe? Well i haven't a clue. Would like to find out though. And for that to happen we would need to keep asking questions. Scientific questions that is.

I don't know, i think you're taking a different approach than i would. I don't think all of us continue growing. Not in the mental sense. Some of us are either stopped or we stop ourselves. Instead of asking more question and becoming curious we accept an answer that is to our liking. Or reject an answer that isn't. That's not growth. That's stagnation. And we human's do it constantly. It's about one of the only constants across humanity that i can find. Human beings are consistently inconsistent.

We all have varying opinions because every last one of us is unique. At the same time uniform. Certain people are more likely than others to believe or see or perceive or envision something based on almost as many factors as there are human beings. Probably more actually. And thats as close to the scientific way of looking at things as i personally can get.

Are we talking symptoms? Cause the medical industry is also a science. Are we talking peer pressure? Sociology is also a science.

And not to sound like a debbie downer but WE aren't prepared. We implies humanity as a whole in the context you used and we are anything but. Also given the current worldly news...yeah not so surprising either.

 

[185248]

Way out questions are good. Personally i'm more than satisfied with the scientific answer for lightening. Doesn't make it any less awesome. Then again i can see where you're going with this. What started the big bang maybe? Well i haven't a clue. Would like to find out though. And for that to happen we would need to keep asking questions. Scientific questions that is.

I don't know, i think you're taking a different approach than i would. I don't think all of us continue growing. Not in the mental sense. Some of us are either stopped or we stop ourselves. Instead of asking more question and becoming curious we accept an answer that is to our liking. Or reject an answer that isn't. That's not growth. That's stagnation. And we human's do it constantly. It's about one of the only constants across humanity that i can find. Human beings are consistently inconsistent.

We all have varying opinions because every last one of us is unique. At the same time uniform. Certain people are more likely than others to believe or see or perceive or envision something based on almost as many factors as there are human beings. Probably more actually. And thats as close to the scientific way of looking at things as i personally can get.

Are we talking symptoms? Cause the medical industry is also a science. Are we talking peer pressure? Sociology is also a science.

And not to sound like a debbie downer but WE aren't prepared. We implies humanity as a whole in the context you used and we are anything but. Also given the current worldly news...yeah not so surprising either.

When you think about it, nothing would survive without electrical energy, the natural world as we know it, nor the artificial world we have created using electrical energy. Even the humble internal combustion engine would not operate without a spark.

I sometimes wonder what the world would be like or become if those lightning strikes all of a sudden halted or ceased to exist. After all, if you are talking science and laws of physics, there would have to be some decrease of output in energy for the energy lost in input from the . Where would that lost energy be deducted, and what would be it's effects?

Just looked up this.....

How does lightning interact with the earth's electric field?
On the scale of a single thunderstorm, lightning is a discharge--a means of releasing the tremendous electrical energy built up by the storm. But on a global scale, thunderstorms actually separate charge. Lightning and other storm-related electrical features act to maintain a permanent potential of some 300 kilovolts between the earth's crust, which is negatively charged, and the ionosphere (well above 30 miles, or 50 kilometers), which is positively charged. In between, the slightly conductive lower atmosphere allows current to flow between the two regions. Were it not for the constant recharging from thunderstorms, the earth-atmosphere potential would disappear in a mere five minutes.

Guess I just answered my own question....and this


Why does lightning enhance the global electric field instead of dispelling it?
The answer lies in the structure of thunderstorms. For reasons unclear--but probably involving millions of collisions among ice crystals and small hailstones or graupel--storms evolve with positive charge near the top and negative charge from middle to cloud base. In a typical cloud-to-ground strike, negative charge descends from cloud base to ground. In response, trees, poles, and other objects release positive charge upward--thus keeping the earth's overall charge negative.

Maybe one day it will become clear, but it's pretty clear if the lightning stops, we are screwed. Some of the reason of why we've always had the instinct to be in awe of a good thunderstorm I spose.

Also, if you live in the clouds you are in the positive zone, if you live on earth you be in the negative zone....

Just like living to an average age of 70 to 80 years, I spose there is a reason for that too.

 

[breeze]

Do you have links for any of this, breeze?

Brief Update

National Geographic Channel Sunday 12/13 8/7C The Cult of Mary
NGM December Cover " Mary The Most Powerful Woman in the World"

Maureen Orth traveling the world

Our Lady of Guadalupe
" Mexico belongs to the Virgin , and the Virgin belongs to Mexico"

Pilgrims Mexico City
" Many had tears streaming down their cheeks. Most i talked to said they were coming to say thanks.
They had made a promise to the Virgin and she had answered their prayers."

The Image
"Remarkably , the image hasn't deteriorated.." { for 500 years }
""in 1785 a worker accidentally spilled nitric acid on the image "

I have read elsewhere the acid burned a hole in the image. Now it is , i guess , difficult if
not impossible to repair agave fiber. And scientists have stated it is impossible to
paint that kind of image on that kind of material. Any repairs would have been obvious.
So how was the image repaired. It repaired itself,

The Bomb
"In 1921.....a bomb...placed below the image.The bomb destroyed the altar. The image was untouched.".

I believe the bomb destroyed the table it was placed on and the wall behind it.

Medjugorje

"Ivan Dragicevic...kneels in front.... and doesn't blink for ten minutes" { along with 5
other visionaries }

Arthur Boyle riddled with cancer and given months to live runs across one of the
visionaries in a store. She grips his head with one hand and one week later a CT
scan reveals his cancer has disappeared. { to make a long story short }

Frank McGovern , a boston urolgoic stated that the cancer's complete disappearance
was " rare " but " statistically possible ".

He added " I also believe there are times in human life when we are way beyond
what we ever expect ".

The Journal of Scientific Exploration reported the visionaries " partial and
variable disconnected from the world at the time of the apparitions......
the extreme sound and light sensations travel normally to their brain...
but the cerebral cortex does not perceive the transmission of the
auditory and visual neuronal stimuli".

There is no scientific explanation. The experiences " surpass modern science ".

From Medjugorje Mary's Message 11/25/15
Last sentences
" Because all that is this , which many of my children , put in first place , unfortunately
will disappear , and only love and works of love will remain and open the door
at the Kingdom of Heaven. I will wait for you at the door. At this door , i desire
to welcome ,and embrace all my children. Thank you. "

The greatest mystery of our time.







.

 

[AlteredEgo]

If the centre of my chest does not agree with my mind, it's not right and vice versa. When they agree and not in conflict with one another, it is right. Pretty simple. Some may view this as instinct (evolution), some as faith, others as wisdom.

I have been clinically dead several times. I was born dead. I have returned to that state a few times and find I'm quite comfortable with it. There is nothing I'm aware of after. While dying, there is a deeply soothing warmth, and a magnificent dream as my brain tries to inspire me to move my heart and diaphragm once more. The dream is different each time, but so, so beautiful, and populated by the best people I've known. Then there is darkness. Unawareness. So far, I've been fortunate enough to become aware again, to feel an urge to inhale deeply. Life is restored.

And now, here's why you should let a physicist give your eulogy.

 

[malakos]

The Christian view is that it will, an idea expressed through the term "bodily resurrection".

Eh... the orthodox Christian view is that the soul is immortal even separate from the bodily resurrection (which will not happen until the Last Day), although consciousness is limited until the reunion with the body.

 

[malakos]

The official USSR view is that is was a group hallucination.

Well of course it was. The chances of a Communist (?) State conceding the possibility of real supernatural events are nil. It would totally uproot the very foundations (historical materialism) of Marxism.

 

[malakos]

BTW, what exactly was the purpose of the OP? Was there a question that I missed?

 

[braalian]

The existence of an afterlife is an extraordinary claim.

Extraordinary claims require concrete proof.

There has never been proof of the supernatural or of an afterlife. I do not consider the experiences of people who were legally dead to be proof, as no tangible evidence is produced, and their experience can be explained as hallucinations, dreams, confusion or any number of more reasonable explanations.

Of course, the absence of proof technically disproves nothing.

I firmly believe no living person on earth has ever known whether or not there's an afterlife. Many have believed, but no one knows. We'll all find out, one way or he other.

The far healthiest thing to do is to assume nothing happens at all, and focus on the very real here and now.

 

[braalian]

It's been said that life itself is a disease. One that's sexually transmitted and invariably fatal.

 

[malakos]

The existence of an afterlife is an extraordinary claim.

Extraordinary claims require concrete proof.

Require concrete proof for......?

 

[Jason]

The existence of an afterlife is an extraordinary claim.

Extraordinary claims require concrete proof.

The extraordinary claim is that the material world exists. It is of course a projection of our consciousness. Only our consciousness exists. Consciousness is not dependent on a projected myth of a material world and does not end when a part of the projected myth changes, when someone's body dies.

 

[braalian]

Require concrete proof for......?

For belief in the supernatural, in religion, in an afterlife. Where's the proof?

 

[malakos]

For belief in the supernatural, in religion, in an afterlife. Where's the proof?

What do you mean by "proof" (I imagine it's more narrow than the broadest sense of the term), and why do you think proof is required to hold supernatural beliefs?

 

[braalian]

What do you mean by "proof" (I imagine it's more narrow than the broadest sense of the term), and why do you think proof is required to hold supernatural beliefs?

Proof that is verifiable, and that stands to rigorous scrutiny.

Prof would be required for me to believe in any specific faith's God, or in ghosts, or in psychic ability or in anything like that.

Clearly, proof is not required for many people to believe in any

 

[braalian]

Oops, clicked post too soon, and I can't edit...

Continued....

Clearly proof is not required for some people for any of their beliefs.

I seen no more reason to believe in the Judeo Christian God, or in eastern mysticism than I see reason to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

[breeze]

Medjugorje
Rough timeline and history of the greatest mystery of our time and maybe more.

1981
The Virgin Mary appears to 6 children in the hills and continues to appears to them
daily even today. The meetings are later moved to a church. At this point no one
really understands what is happening.

Before it becomes clearer. { obscure article in the sf chronicle }
" Awed members of at least two north bay prayer groups say......their rosaries
have changed from silver to gold......others say its a chemical reaction...." The article does
not mention if its only a color change or if the silver has changed to gold.

But " miraculous changes in prayer beads have been reported around the country and
world........since a strange series of events began occurring in yugoslavia seven years ago."

The government reacts by first senting government workers to stop the apparitions. Then
the police and finally the military to no avail. Medjugorje is then under siege. Some of government
workers claimed that Mary stopped them. I do not know about the police and army. Moscow
is appalled at their failures. They finally bomb medjugorje , with american pilots watching from the
hills , again to no avail.

The army does however arrest and torture a priest.

The government agrees to test the visionaries but only if a communist is the leader.of
the commission. The first study of apparitions is done and others follow. The daily
appearances allow for consistent and reliable data. The reactions of the visionaries
" surpass modern science " and " nothing on the earth can stop the apparitions '.

At his time pope paul begins his trips to poland to begin the end of the cold war.
" When thanked for his role in freeing poland pope paul replied no not me but the affirmations
of blessed Virgin Mary at fatima and medjugorje. Medjugorje.continues.and fullfills fatima."

Today

The Virgin Mary has said the good and faithful will barely notice the transition from
earth to heaven.
She has also left 10 prophesies which will revealed one day before they happen.
But we won't know about them since the west does not cover such events.

Finally Mary has said when she leaves she will leave a symbol where she
first appeared.

The symbol cannot be copied by man
The symbol will be indestructible.

We will see.

 

[693987]

Both the boyfriend and I are atheist. The majority of my family are devout believers in one of the many variations of Christianity. I have no faith in anything divine/spiritual/religious. I am, at times, jealous of people who do have faith. Rarely, though.