Drifterwood
Superior Member
Does anyone doubt what level of reprisals he would have taken on the East (Cyrenaica)?
Thought it was western Libya that was oil rich?By who? BP and and Whitehall? Tony Blair and Cameron? You are joking I hope. It's been a disgusting show to watch the British government go down on that old terrorist to suck a bit of crude oil. If eastern Libya wasn't sitting on a lake of oil, the coalition would give two shits about the Colonel's repression of the revolt. They never ceased being a rogue state.
Does anyone doubt what level of reprisals he would have taken on the East (Cyrenaica)?
Bahrain - as you say, is more trusted - plus, the level of atrocities against the people doesn't seem comparable (plus the uprising isn't as strong there).
Warning! This links to a site that contains footage of the Bahrain forces murdering protestors
US-backed Bahraini monarchy slash dictatorship gunning down protesters in cold blood
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I do think (as you say) the 'why not Zimbabwe, etc.?' question is simplistic, and ridiculous... To intervene in Zimbabwe would require the support of other African nations in the region, which is the opposite of their current stance. Without that, it would be pointless and disastrous.
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There is no moral high ground in attacking Libya at all.
Stepping in to prevent people being massacred by Gaddafi is surely better than standing by and doin nothing?Is humanitarianism based solely on how much someone is liked or disliked? There is no moral high ground in attacking Libya at all.
No-one said the African Union supported the coalition.The African Union doesn't support the Coalition attacking Libya at all. Getting rid of Mugabe himself wouldn't have taken much effort whatsoever, & neither would sequestrating his overseas assets NOW.
There is a strong case to be made in favour of constructive engagement with nations.
Former MI5 head, Eliza Manningham-Buller, said today that we should talk with Al-Qaeda & the Taleban - who are both worse than Gaddafi!
Where is this perfect country whose house is in order? Morality is messy. What matters is that the UK is seeking to help.
How can the Uk have double standards and a holier than thou attitude when they supplied (weapons)
Stepping in to prevent people being massacred by Gaddafi is surely better than standing by and doin nothing?
His recorded message to Benghazi as he was closing in was 'We're coming tonight - to search for all the scum and traitors, who will be shown no mercy'. Nice.
Gadaffi also has said that he will crush America, he will raise a holy war, & all rebels are drinking drugged milk. It's laughable. All Arab leaders seem to lead by empty rhetoric - tough talk meant to scare - remember Comical Ali -" the Americans are slaughtering themselves on our gates"?
The rebels have helicopters, warplane, tanks, artillery etc. Far from being defenceless, thanks to the nice coalition, we've allowed them to advance. Food supplies are also coming in through Bengazi, but nowhere else in Libya.
Sooner or later, some of Gadaffi's tribal allies will defect, & the population may revolt as supplies become scarce, & the West keeps bombing just one side. There are only 6.5 million in Libya - it's not hard to ensure one side wins.
There's absolutely no sign of massive popular support outside of the East - like any revolt, the majority will be keeping their heads down. If the rebels win Gadaffi & his allies will be a traitor, & vice versa.
Getting rid of Mugabe wouldn't have taken much effort whatsoever?!!
Hardly - we did sell him a ton of arms, advise him on his defences, & most tactical military positions seem given through a tribal basis, not competence. Small team - surgical strike - poof!
If that was the case, we'd have done it long ago. It's a complicated situation, and stepping in would mean going against the other African nations who support him - which could destabilise the region. Have you got better ideas as to how to solve the problem?
If we abandon the movement for self determination in the region, we abandon it for another generation.
Was Libya the right place to draw the line in the sand? Well, if you want to support the movement, then I can't think of anywhere better.
The West can't and shouldn't enforce change in the region, but I don't see why we shouldn't be clear as to the end game that we would like to see; namely a self confident, self determining, freer environment taking its place in the modern world. Of course this isn't in everyone's interest in the West, hence the dithering in some camps.