Life after Pinochet

[Ethyl]

Heroic leader of the people? Power-hungry dictator?
Chileans have never been able to agree which is why he never came to trial.

Obituary

Is it true that time heals all wounds? Will Chile find a way to put the past to rest?

 

[Amygirl]

Power hungry dictator. You can add to that CIA puppet as well.

The only supporters are the ones who were getting their palms greased by the establishment.

 

[SomeGuyOverThere]

I dunno.

The other option was a Communist goverment, which probably would have been worse considering the genocide track records of some "Communist" rulers; 3000 disappearences in 17 years really isnt much compared to Stalin, or Mao.

Adding up numbers is more than a bit sick, however.

I simply don't know. But, he was no saint, thats for sure.

 

[dong20]

Heroic leader of the people? Power-hungry dictator?
Chileans have never been able to agree which is why he never came to trial.

Obituary

Is it true that time heals all wounds? Will Chile find a way to put the past to rest?

Yes, yes, yes and yes, depending on ones political and economic perspective naturally. For myself; 1 NO, 2 YES. Unsurprisingly of course, good old Uncle Sam was behind his installation in 1973. Now, why does that not surprise me.

I first visited Chile about two years after he 'stepped down' from power, (a direct yet fortunate result his own arrogance though remained a military chief until '98) and there was a sense of relief and optimism. Chile seemed a much more relaxed country the next visit a few years later so I have to believe the answer to 3 and 4 above is hopefully YES, at least for many.

I won't loose any sleep over his passing.

 

[Ethyl]

Turns out he'd been padding his pockets with mismanaged money, which certainly doesn't add to the "hero" image. That coupled with the arguing over whether or not the steadily growing economy is the direct result of his time in power gives people plenty to chew on, although financial analysts say the burgeoning economy has little to do with his decisions during his reign.

 

[Amygirl]

I dunno.

The other option was a Communist goverment, which probably would have been worse considering the genocide track records of some "Communist" rulers; 3000 disappearences in 17 years really isnt much compared to Stalin, or Mao.

Adding up numbers is more than a bit sick, however.

I simply don't know. But, he was no saint, thats for sure.

Allende was no communist. He was a little socialist perhaps but no more than either the English or Australian Labour party of the time.

Allende's main crime was turning a couple of lucrative income streams for Chile into State controlled companies rather than allowing the multi nationals to rape and pillage.

 

[dong20]

Turns out he'd been padding his pockets with mismanaged money, which certainly doesn't add to the "hero" image. That coupled with the arguing over whether or not the steadily growing economy is the direct result of his time in power gives people plenty to chew on, although financial analysts say the burgeoning economy has little to do with his decisions during his reign.

Well, systematic embezzlement is par for the course for any serious dictator. It was the political violence, repression, lying and extensive murdering that really marked his card as a despot. I think his only lasting legacy will be one on a loose par with say Amin, Barre or maybe (on a smaller scale) but closer to his neighbourhood Noriega or Galtieri.

 

[SomeGuyOverThere]

Allende was no communist. He was a little socialist perhaps but no more than either the English or Australian Labour party of the time.

Allende's main crime was turning a couple of lucrative income streams for Chile into State controlled companies rather than allowing the multi nationals to rape and pillage.

The phrase the BBC used was "[Pinochet] overthrew the democratically elected Socialist Goverenment".

I interpreted that as "Communist", probably my mistake, i don't know much about the whole thing.

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

Margrate Thatcher and Norman Lamont (paragons of virtue that they are...) idolized Pinochet. And Chileans that cared more about their overseas dollar bank accounts than the lives of their compatriots - men, women, and children. He was a fascist that will be honestly remebered for what he was: a shit of the first order. Even hell will feel uncomfortable with him there.

 

[Elmer Gantry]

The phrase the BBC used was "[Pinochet] overthrew the democratically elected Socialist Goverenment".

I interpreted that as "Communist", probably my mistake, i don't know much about the whole thing.

Their is quite a difference.

Reminds me a little of the Whitlam government in the 70's here in Australia. They were overthrown as well.

 

[Elmer Gantry]

Margrate Thatcher and Norman Lamont (paragons of virtue that they are...) idolized Pinochet. And Chileans that cared more about their overseas dollar bank accounts than the lives of their compatriots - men, women, and children. He was a fascist that will be honestly remebered for what he was: a shit of the first order. Even hell will feel uncomfortable with him there.

That's a very accurate depiction, Sarge. How many people went missing in the 60's under the watch of this idiot? I'm betting that per capita he was right up there with Stalin and Mao!

 

[dong20]

The phrase the BBC used was "[Pinochet] overthrew the democratically elected Socialist Goverenment".

I interpreted that as "Communist", probably my mistake, i don't know much about the whole thing.

Evidently it was 'Socialist' enough for the US to help oust Allende and install a nice friendly Fascist dictator. Allende was the first democratically elected Marxist leader, so he had to go didn't he.:smile:

 

[Ethyl]

Well, systematic embezzlement is par for the course for any serious dictator. It was the political violence, repression, lying and extensive murdering that really marked his card as a despot. I think his only lasting legacy will be one on a loose par with say Amin, Barre or maybe (on a smaller scale) but closer Noriega or Galtieri.

It's odd (to me) that we grade the levels of political villians and murderers on a spectrum even though I know it's human nature to do so. I think your assessment is on target. It's just so strange to wonder where to place Pinochet. Closer to Amin than Pol Pot? Closer to Pol Pot than Stalin?

 

[SpeedoGuy]

It's odd (to me) that we grade the levels of political villians and murderers on a spectrum even though I know it's human nature to do so. I think your assessment is on target. It's just so strange to wonder where to place Pinochet. Closer to Amin than Pol Pot? Closer to Pol Pot than Stalin?

All that really mattered to a number of U.S. administrations was that Pinochet (like Saddam, Batista, Noriega, Marcos, Pahlavi, and other sweethearts) was anti-communist.

 

[Ethyl]

All that really mattered to a number of U.S. administrations was that Pinochet (like Saddam, Batista, Noriega, Marcos, Pahlavi, and other sweethearts) was anti-communist.

Absolutely. We are nothing if not predictable. If it suits our purpose and benefits us...

 

[SomeGuyOverThere]

Their is quite a difference.

I am well aware of that, i used to fly the Red Flag myself, but usually when people say "Socialist" they mean "Communist" or are implying that it has strong Communist leanings; so I assumed thats what they meant.

If it was mearely a left wing government then thats another kettle of fish and my attitude to Pinochet shifts somewhat.

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

There is no spectrum to wickedness and evil it is or it isn't. Remember the people who helped and supported the bastard tell us how to live our lives. Lamont looks exactly what he is: an blowsey whore. The Old Procuress of Downing Street the fragrant "Lady" Thatcher will be very sad at Pinochet's passing, maybe she will send that would be other mass muderer, her son to the funeral.

 

[Ethyl]

There is no spectrum to wickedness and evil it is or it isn't. Remember the people who helped and supported the bastard tell us how to live our lives. Lamont looks exactly what he is: an blowsey whore. The Old Procuress of Downing Street the fragrant "Lady" Thatcher will be very sad at Pinochet's passing, maybe she will send that would be other mass muderer, her son to the funeral.

Apparently he's to be buried with full military honors. Seems unnecessary to me since he's done nothing honorable in his country's name.

 

[TheSeiF]

how sad, all of you have been influenced by socialist propaganda. Let me explain a bit how things where before, during and after Liberator Pinochet´s regime.

it was 1970, After a VERY tight election there was no clear winner was elected (Allende 36.2%, Jorge Alessandri 34.9% and Radomiro Tomic 27.8%), following that time´s constitution, the congres was to chose. As story tells, they chose Salvador Allende, the first marxist president ever to have been democratically elected.

During the next 3 years the country was trasformed from a nation into a total wreck. The inflation was skyrocketing (achieving 1500%++ during the final days of his goverment). "Holy lord" Allende had his own private extraconstitutional army (GAP, Grupo de Amigos del Presidente), and thanx to some stupid agricultural revolution, in which he took the land from big land owners and gave it to its workers, the country was running short of supplies, bc those workers had no idea and/or no interest, in harvesting the land. You had to be hours in waiting lines just for a loaf of bread, id you where lucky to get one.

the ONLY good thing Allende did was nationalising the main national resourses, but other than that, he almost managed to cause a Civil War.

Then in 11 sept 1973 was the coup. As in all coups, the first years where a mess. Human rights violations, civilian oppression, etc etc etc. But after those harsh first years the country entered a golden age of progress, FAR surpasing that of any other latin american country, and even one of the greatest worldwide. It was in those years that Chile earned the name of "Los jaguares de latinoamerica"(Latin American Jaguars), in reference to its almost absurd growth rate. World wise, Pinochet was the first to really strike comunism, which in those times was gaining lots of terrain, and after him, the rest of the world realised that comunism was not the path. You could say that thanx to Pinochet´s doing, Berlin´s wall was destroyed in 1989 and comunism was pretty much beaten.

Pinochet´s regime ended after he lost a really tight election in 1988, and giving away the presidential band in 1990 to Patricio Aylwin. Tell me, Which "dictator" willingly calls for elections and gives away power withought any complain after he lost?

Since that time to present things have gone from good, to bad and worse. After 16 years, the "concertacion" (union of leftwing political partys) has been reelected in 3 ocations (1993 Eduardo Frei, 1999 Ricardo Lagos, and now resently 2005 Michelle Bachelet). Crime is skyrocketing and nobody seems to be doing anything about it. Driving through Santiago is almost like racing a Rally bc the size of the "events" (as goverment names those craters) is absolutelly insane. Everytime there are found more and more robberies from the goverments, and curiously everytime a big case surfaces, they miraculously found money Pinochet stole (Which by the way, have in MOST, if not all cases, been false). The last one was almost a joke. They found a huge robbery through the department of "chiledeportes" (Chilesports), and magically the next day they found about 1 ton of gold Pinochet "stored" in a bank in Shang-hai. The funny part is that it was inmediatelly found false, and even they found that the "oficial" documents han spelling mistakes! The amount of money this fukin leftwings parties have stolen in this 16 years FAR surpases by 50 times what suposedly Pinochet stole in 17 years of being a DICTATOR (Consider that he had the whole country for himself).
Nowdays here in Chile pro-goverment people still talk of us a Los Jaguares de Latinoamerica, which nowdays is no even a shadow of what was in Pinochets days. Miss Bachellet´s goverment has proven to be just short of a complete dissaster, in grand part thanx to the huge mess Lagos left undercovered so she could have been elected. But still people votes for them, i really dont understand how stupid the average Chilean can be....

I hope this help to change a bit your idea of Augusto Pinochet.
I am Chilean and i know what im talking about. Tomorrow i´ll visit his dead body for a final farewell. The positive thing about his death is that now that frikin concertacion wont be able to use him as a shield.

Farewell my General, see you in heaven.

http://www.chile-erleben.de/Bilder/Pinochet.jpg

A little sort of song:
Como no te voy a querer???
Como no te voy a querer?
Si tu liberaste a Chile
el 11 de Septiembre del 73!!!


VIVA CHILE Y PINOCHET

 

[B_spiker067]

how sad, all of you have been influenced by socialist propaganda. Let me explain a bit how things where before, during and after Liberator Pinochet´s regime.
...

Buenas Tardes Caballero,

I appreciate your alternate point of view but I noticed your profile says you are only 19. So you didn't live throught these times? Who told you about them? Do you come from the entitled classes of Chile? I thought the Chilean stock market was doing great?

Por favor tome todo esto en un sentido muy diplomatico y/o simpatico.

Spiker