Life or Death?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by B_caneadea, Dec 4, 2005.

  1. B_caneadea

    B_caneadea New Member

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    Perhaps you have seen in the news that Stanley "Tookie" Williams, convicted killer of 4 people, founder of the L.A. gang "The Crips", and now an advocate against gang violence, is scheduled to be executed on December 16th.
    His only hope is for the governor of California to reduce his sentence from death to life in prison.
    Opinions?
     
  2. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    "hope"? what is there to live for if you're stuck in jail for the rest of your life? if I were him I'd be looking forward to meeting the Magic Needle.
     
  3. B_caneadea

    B_caneadea New Member

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    I have taken a tour of San Quentin prison (my best friend is a guard there) where Williams is incarcerated. It is an ugly ugly place.
    Never the less, it is a phenomenon of human nature that he fights to live even though his only prospect would be to grow old in that terrible place.:(
     
  4. Paul Vincent

    Paul Vincent <img border="0" src="/images/badges/member.gif" wi

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    He killed four people and lead a gang that killed many more people. Either way is fine by me. As for him now being an advocate against gang violence, obviously he's doing it for the sympathy vote (hoping for it anyway).
     
  5. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    He should have been zapped with Old Sparky years ago.

    Jailhouse conversion and writing children's books are nice - he's evidently got a good side - but he killed at least four people for the pleasure of it. A jury (many of whom may be dead by now themselves) decided he should die.

    He might be the sweetest ganglord in the world but he broke the law, punishment was decided and he should accept the consequences of his actions.
     
  6. GoneA

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    release him at once!!
     
  7. Matthew

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    How do you know that?
     
  8. SouthernBum

    SouthernBum New Member

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    He may have really changed his views, and I hope that he did. Yet, he still killed four people regardless if he is truly sorry or not. Should he die?? I am inclined to say no, but he should pay for his actions. Personally, I think the death penalty should only be used in the most extreme of cases (if used at all). That's just my opinion---take it or leave it.
     
  9. rawbone8

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    It will be interesting to see the governor's decision whether to intervene or not. His wife is Catholic, and he has to live with her reaction, as well as be true to his own conscience, in his actions. At the same time he must be gauging the reaction his electors expect from him. If the law allows a governor to reduce a sentence as an act of clemency, that is still a lawful consequence, so it works either way.

    I'm generally against execution, mainly because there can be so many problems with a fallable justice system getting it right with prosecutions and trials. And I don't think execution works as a deterrent. If it's clear without a doubt that this criminal did the 4 killings then I accept that the law is the law. He has forfeited his rights to live.
     
  10. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east &#039;neath the willow tree? Sex
    ah, balls to human nature. the whole point of sentience is that we can choose to act against our basic instincts whenever it suits us to do so. if he'd rather live out his days in the slam than take advantage of a quick and (relatively) painless death, then he deserves to.
     
  11. B_caneadea

    B_caneadea New Member

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    ______________________________________

    Even the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals(the most liberal court in the land) upheld Williams conviction.
    Considering that he was convicted of intentionally killing 4 people, and orchestrating the deaths of countless others through his leadership of the LA Crips gang, I have little sympathy for this man.
    Although he deserves recognition for writing books which attempt to disuade kids from gang affiliation, and he claims to be religious ( my friend, the prison guard says that all convicted killers claim to have "found religion"), I feel that he made abominable choices in his life and deserves to pay for them.
    I reluctantly vote for death.
    I predict that Governor Arnold will agree.
     
  12. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east &#039;neath the willow tree? Sex
    oh, sure, i don't think anyone's arguing that he's as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poop. the point is that he could've gone to the dance floor with his dignity intact instead of whining about religion.
     
  13. madame_zora

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    You know you make my heart thump, right?
     
  14. B_caneadea

    B_caneadea New Member

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    _________________________________

    This man shows no contrition what so ever. He will not even take responsibility for the deaths of the four people he was convicted of killing, much less the countless others who have suffered and/or died because of his organization of the Crips gang.
    I wouldn't expect this kind of person to show dignity in the face of death.
    And, facing death, a man will grasp at virtually anything that might save him.
     
  15. GoneA

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    i almost can't think of anyone who wouldn't...
     
  16. B_caneadea

    B_caneadea New Member

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    Just read that governor Arnold refused to grant clemency.
    So. Tookie "fries" at 12:01 AM tomorrow..............

    I have to say that I have mixed feelings.
    I feel sad that another life will be taken.
    I believe he deserves to die.
    It's a terrible business.......................
     
  17. DC_DEEP

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    Mmm, all else aside... now that the deed is done, well, who "held a gun to his head" and forced him to found, and for many years, lead, a gang dedicated to violence? If he had it in him to be that kind of person for that many years, and to be so dedicated to it, I am a bit skeptical of his "jailhouse conversion." When he is in a situation where he can't continue to commit and encourage violence and murder, well what else is there for him to do but put on the innocence act and claim he's a good man now?

    I think the law needs to clamp down, HARD, on gang members. And yes, I think a tattoo of a particular gang's symbols should be proof enough. For them, violence is a game, and two favorite portions of initiation for many street gangs is to murder or rape a random stranger.
     
  18. GoneA

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    or sometimes both.
     
  19. Matthew

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    Proof enough of what? And proof enough to do what?
     
  20. B_caneadea

    B_caneadea New Member

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    __________________________________
    One of my friends(a coworker) was beaten severely about the head with a hammer by a young man who did it as his initiation into a gang. My friend is a smaller Chinese man who was just walking down the street. The attacker asked him for the time. When he looked at his watch, he was brutally attacked. No robbery. Pure evil non-sense!

    We all make choices in life. Some are stupid choices that we can recover from. Some are not. And of course, wisdom comes with age. For Tookie Williams, it was too late....................
     
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