Locker Room Double Standard

[bigmuscles_averagecock]

I know this issue has been raised before, but not with the same result as in this case. Don't think I'm a homophobe or anything, I have gay friends I've made in college; this one guy just pissed me off and threatened me.

So I just moved to a new town and started working out at the local university's gym. Last month I started up a conversation with these other college guys who are always working out when I'm there and we spot each other and chat about stuff. A few weeks ago we leave the gym at the same time and in the locker room I get naked to go to the sauna and shower and these buds are like "Hey bro, I wouldn't go in the showers if I were you." I ask why and they say that a lot of gay guys, young and old, cruise the showers to feast their eyes on young, muscular, naked college men. It really loosens up my muscles to sauna and take a hot shower after working out, so I brushed off the comment and up until today there have been no real problems. Sure, I've seen guys looking at my cock, sneaking peeks, and I sneak a peek or two to size up, but that doesn't bother me and it doesn't seem to bother others. It was different this evening though.

After my workout I enter the shower and it's obvious that this 50 or so year old, potbellied, double-earringed gay guy is blatantly staring at me. I don't even get to lathering up and I can't take it anymore. I turn off the shower, grab my towel and go into the sauna. Less than a minute later he enters the sauna, sits across from me and continues sizing me up. I can stand it for a couple minutes, then I go back to the shower. He follows me back. I wet my face then go back to the sauna. He follows me back. I leave right away and go back to the shower, hoping he catches the hint. He comes into the shower room a minute or so later. I'm already partly lathered up, so I suck it up and ignore him as he starts to shower under the showerhead right next to me, still staring at me. I rinse off and start cleaning under my foreskin before I wash my hair, ignoring him, when I hear him say "Can I help you with that?". I say "Fuck off man" and move to the showerhead one more away from him. He then says "I wanna eat that cake" and I turn to him with my fist at my shoulder and say "Fuck off, faggot!". He turns off his showerhead and leaves while I stare at him with my fist at my shoulder. I start washing my hair when a minute or so later a security guard enters the shower room and asks me if I threatened another guy in the shower. I said that he threatened me first and that he was sexually harrassing me. The other two guys in the shower at the time came over to talk to the security guard too and backed me up. The fuck-up security guard ignores me and those guys, saying that the university has strict anti-hate rules and that if there are any more reports about me my gym membership will be revoked. I argued with the guy, buck naked in the shower room, but when I noticed that he was staring at my cock a lot I knew I wouldn't win; I think the security guard was gay too. I finally say it won't happen again, he leaves, I wash my hair, get dressed and leave.

What pisses me off is the double standard. I'm the victim. It's like convicting a girl who pepper sprays a pervert who talks lewdly to her in a dark park. I mean, if those showers were co-ed, I'd get in such deep shit if I asked if I could clean the pussy of a girl I never met then said I wanted to fuck her after she turns me down. This shit just pisses me off. I had to vent, and hopefully prevent some gay guys here from pulling the same sort of shit later, thinking it's all right when it's not.

Just a side note, unrelated to all this, almost all the guys under 25 that I've seen in the locker room at that gym are uncut, like 90%. 40 to 25 year olds are still around 60% uncut. This really surprised me because I was the only uncut guy on my hometown hockey and football teams, 500 miles down the road. Circumcision rates are lower here in Canada, but it was nice to see that foreskin is so prevalent here.

 

[Simon9]

Welcome to the world of the PC double standard. And nowhere will you find it more so than at universities. Or so everyone tells me.

Yes, you were victimized by an authority figure who clearly sided with the harrasser. If you want, you could write to the head of security (with a cc to some appropriate campus official about your harrassment by your stalker and his buddy, the gay security guard. And that you're considering legal action as well).

Or you could philosphically shrug it off as part of your ongoing education.

Either way, best of luck!

PS. Perhaps your foreskin fascinated him.

 

[dannymawg]

Simon9 posted good advice while I was writing this - don't let it slide. The troll needs to go.

[cringes] You prolly want to hear from straight guys first, but in the interest of not watching another thread blow up like I did the other day, I post this:

http://www.lpsg.org/relationships-discrimination-and-jealousy/22222-hitting-on-straight-guys-7.html

hungaussie threatened violence and got shut down for it. You expressed violence and got shut down for it too. This world is hyper-vigilant against violence, and at the same time hypnotised by it to think it's a quick way to solve issues. The PC double standard described above is a result.

Your troll had every chance to back off - he stepped over a line of respect, but from what I gather from your post (well put, BTW), you responded not with a verbal warning - "Look man, back the fuck off, I dont find you attractive AT ALL," etc. - but with an immediate physical threat. That gave the troll a chance to retaliate and engage vigilance/PC DS (and the security guard). And there's your indignance - not having your side to say, because you passed on the opportunity with a cocked fist.

From as much as you describe the troll tailing you back and forth, that sounds like he was deserving of a good "fuck the hell off" talk. And it sounds like you handled it well overall. But removing the gay/straight identifiers, this is a case of basic lack of respect for personal space, regardless of the environment.

Just get more verbal and direct with them. I've found that a direct, murderous stare in the eye (even if they are avoiding contact) and a constant "back off" sometimes solves the problem right off. They think yer gonna flip out, which is the mechanism you chose as well - you wanted the guy to think you were gonna go off on him, but you got called on it for the violent act. Please rethink before cocking a fist, as you lost any advantage right there. As nerdy as it sounds, get verbal.

M/M sexual harassment is a tough one - and you were harassed - but inasmuch the uni is PC on cracking down on violence, I would think there's also room there to state your case on M/M harassment in a public domain (easier than in a corporate or blue collar environments), and have the fuckin security guard reviewed for not doing his job. The dudes who backed you up would be instrumental in the case. And it would be interesting to hear of any results. Post back if you do and all the best to ya...

 

[bigmuscles_averagecock]

I was verbal before anything physical happened, just to clarify.

Simon9 posted good advice while I was writing this - don't let it slide. The troll needs to go.

[cringes] You prolly want to hear from straight guys first, but in the interest of not watching another thread blow up like I did the other day, I post this:

http://www.lpsg.org/relationships-discrimination-and-jealousy/22222-hitting-on-straight-guys-7.html

hungaussie threatened violence and got shut down for it. You expressed violence and got shut down for it too. This world is hyper-vigilant against violence, and at the same time hypnotised by it to think it's a quick way to solve issues. The PC double standard described above is a result.

Your troll had every chance to back off - he stepped over a line of respect, but from what I gather from your post (well put, BTW), you responded not with a verbal warning - "Look man, back the fuck off, I dont find you attractive AT ALL," etc. - but with an immediate physical threat. That gave the troll a chance to retaliate and engage vigilance/PC DS (and the security guard). And there's your indignance - not having your side to say, because you passed on the opportunity with a cocked fist.

From as much as you describe the troll tailing you back and forth, that sounds like he was deserving of a good "fuck the hell off" talk. And it sounds like you handled it well overall. But removing the gay/straight identifiers, this is a case of basic lack of respect for personal space, regardless of the environment.

Just get more verbal and direct with them. I've found that a direct, murderous stare in the eye (even if they are avoiding contact) and a constant "back off" sometimes solves the problem right off. They think yer gonna flip out, which is the mechanism you chose as well - you wanted the guy to think you were gonna go off on him, but you got called on it for the violent act. Please rethink before cocking a fist, as you lost any advantage right there. As nerdy as it sounds, get verbal.

M/M sexual harassment is a tough one - and you were harassed - but inasmuch the uni is PC on cracking down on violence, I would think there's also room there to state your case on M/M harassment in a public domain (easier than in a corporate or blue collar environments), and have the fuckin security guard reviewed for not doing his job. The dudes who backed you up would be instrumental in the case. And it would be interesting to hear of any results. Post back if you do and all the best to ya...

 

[dannymawg]

I was verbal before anything physical happened, just to clarify.

You're right, you were: but not much...

....ignoring him, when I hear him say "Can I help you with that?". I say "Fuck off man"

There's the first exchange...

and move to the showerhead one more away from him. He then says "I wanna eat that cake" and I turn to him with my fist at my shoulder and say "Fuck off, faggot!".

...and there's the second.

He turns off his showerhead and leaves while I stare at him with my fist at my shoulder. I start washing my hair when a minute or so later...

As long as we're clairifying - was anything else said before the exchange in the shower above? Not meaning to nitpick, just wanna know more about what was said/done, especially by the troll...

 

[D_Oldman Rivver]

Hey Big MAC (can i call you that?):biggrin1: Im not a homophobe either, im just a homo! Anyways i would also be extremely bothered by that and it would piss me off if s/o did that to me too! I think we should go kick his ass! Nah, dont wanna get you into anymore trouble. But i just hope nothing like that happens to you again! Some gay guys can be way TOOO Forward and that is a turn off w/ me...I prefer the hard to get(no pun intended):biggrin1:

 

[bigmuscles_averagecock]

No man, those were the only words

You're right, you were: but not much...



As long as we're clairifying - was anything else said before the exchange in the shower above? Not meaning to nitpick, just wanna know more about what was said/done, especially by the troll...

 

[looker271]

Hey "bigmuscles averagecock" I am gay and totally support you. I've done my share of looking in showers and being looked at. I hate it when guys won't take the hint that you don't want them gawking. It's cool to "size up" as you said - sometimes the person enjoys it, other times not. It's pretty obvious when it's not appreciated.

I sincerely hope you do not lose your gym membership. Let us know.

 

[FrenumFellow]

Welcome to the unfortunate reality of dealing with a misbehaved minority of gay men.

Public bathrooms can also be a hassle. In fact, one of the reasons that public facilities have become less available over the last couple of decades - and that, in some places the privacy of stall doors is no longer available - is the disruption caused by homosexual activity, and damage such as that caused by the making of "glory holes" between stalls. (I used to work in an industry affected by this, and know it to be true).

And yes, if guys did this to women, the PC police and the real cops would be all over it.

In all fairness, I don't hold the majority of gay men responsible for this, and in fact I think some of the worst of the aggressive cruising is done by closeted/bi men who are frustrated and lacking in healthy outlets for their sexuality, rather than out-and-out (!) gay men.


FF

 

[dannymawg]

Gotcha. Again I'm on your side about this - personal space is important. The guy had no right to invade yours, and despite the public shower environment, the leering was uncalled for, especially with your non-verbal ducking from shower to sauna and back. I can see how that shortened your fuse to cock a fist so quickly. I've been in those shoes before, albeit not in a shower situation which inflames the issue (read: makes it easier for trolls to get an eyeful/make unwanted passes).

I say pursue harassment, despite the verbal lashings yer gonna get for having cocked a fist. M/M harassment is a shaky foundation to stand on, and I wish the best. But just as trolls need to back off, so do other folks when it comes to drawing the line between restraint and violence. A big hearty "HEY MOTHERFUCKER TAKE A PICTURE IT'LL LAST LONGER" or some more verbal direction earlier in the game might have helped you here - and sadly, this sort of thing actually turns trolls on even more sometimes.

 

[Snozzle]

Hey "bigmuscles averagecock" I am gay and totally support you. I've done my share of looking in showers and being looked at. I hate it when guys won't take the hint that you don't want them gawking. It's cool to "size up" as you said - sometimes the person enjoys it, other times not. It's pretty obvious when it's not appreciated.

I sincerely hope you do not lose your gym membership. Let us know.

I agree with you all. He had a nerve bringing security in. I can't understand guys who don't understand "No". Do they think you're just playing hard to get?

At the same time, it's generally agreed that you get three tries. And he probably felt he could call in the fuzz when you used the F-word (f*****, not f***). That really is like the n-word to us.

And the fact that he was old and pot-bellied shouldn't be a factor. Many of us are, and yet someone loves us. Or would you have reacted differently if he'd been a hunk?

 

[FrenumFellow]

After my workout I enter the shower and it's obvious that this 50 or so year old, potbellied, double-earringed gay guy is blatantly staring at me. I don't even get to lathering up and I can't take it anymore.

Oh, and welcome also to what it's like to get inappropriate and unwelcomed sexual attention from seemingly clueless men - for women. I'm sure that some of what women experience from men, men only get a taste of in these unusual situations where we're subjected to it by other men.


FF

 

[bigmuscles_averagecock]

I'm still mad at the guy, and justly so, so I described him in ugly, yet accurate, terms. Were he a "hunk," I'd have felt less threatened. Why? Cause this ugly old guy thinking he has a shot with a straight guy who, setting modesty aside for a second, is quite muscular and referred to as attractive - that guy being so deluded to think he'd get something out of me makes me think he's a psycho and capable of anything.

I agree with you all. He had a nerve bringing security in. I can't understand guys who don't understand "No". Do they think you're just playing hard to get?

At the same time, it's generally agreed that you get three tries. And he probably felt he could call in the fuzz when you used the F-word (f*****, not f***). That really is like the n-word to us.

And the fact that he was old and pot-bellied shouldn't be a factor. Many of us are, and yet someone loves us. Or would you have reacted differently if he'd been a hunk?

 

[thedude111]

I can relate.... I am working for a gay man at the moment, (Remodeling) and I am STR8. Anyway, he seemed okay at first. I bid the job out etc. and he took my bid. Now EVERYDAY, he keeps making remarks about my body and looks etc. He knows I am str8 and have a girlfriend. I laugh it off....but it is already old. Turn it around. If a woman was working in a STR8 mans house...and he constantly made remarks about her body and (wished) she would go out with him. She would be pretty uncomfortable I am sure. In away I am trapped because I have much time invested in the job. The first few remarks...may be flattering to some. And as I said I laughed it off...told the guy no thanks and let him know I was str8. But it gets old very FAST. I'm not affraid of the guy... I'm good sized, 6ft2 and in shape. But still...this just isn't right! I have my own free weights now...I hated the GYM for that reason and quit going. Can't quit the job this far along tho'. STUCK!

 

[thedude111]

Oh and one more Comment... FrenemFellow... Actually women can be much worse. Even women have said that often enough to me. I use to work in a Casino... I was in Management. Most of the women were older then I was. They felt me up...pinched my ass. Asked me to bed over and over...(married ones too) And could be pretty crude. A man can't hit a woman for being touchy. And most men, (myself included) Will always try to laugh an uncomfortable situation off. Instead of making an isssue. Not like we are affraid of being raped by a middle aged woman. But it gets old and bothersome. Women know they can get away with more. Look at how women are with strippers. Most female strippers can't be touched. Or the man can be asked to leave. But women do all sorts of things. With both sexes...it is a control issue. Or....I just don't givadamn personality.

 

[D_Peacocke Rimplougher]

I would have to agree with dannyhorse and say that you over-reacted, although this guy should have got the point. He may have thought you were playing hard to get, although I've never met a gay guy playing hard to get.

I think it really should be treated as if you were a woman, in that case he would be seen as a sex-pest.

 

[NCbear]

Bigmuscles, I understand how you feel. Too many people don't know how to stop coming on to someone, and too often just being naked around them means "Take me, I'm yours" to them. Trust me, gay men like myself have experienced the same trolls who don't know how to stop when their attentions obviously aren't wanted.

And simply washing under the foreskin shouldn't be seen as a sexual come-on. You were bathing! Jeez.... (I get this all the time, as a gay man with a rather rare foreskin for my age group and the area. LOTS of stares and even some comments, when I pull back the skin and wash under it.)

I think the leverage the troll used to get the security guard on his side was the "faggot" comment. Perhaps a way to handle this in the future is to get out of there quickly--maybe even with the troll following you to the security station, which would be ideal, because that would prove your point--and to explain (using "faggot"-free language) that someone in the showers has crossed the line into sexual harassment and what they were doing. ("This man has followed me from the showers, where he was doing x type of sexual harassment....")

That way, people listening to you would understand that this is not just an "I'm too sensitive and can't stand when other men glance at me in the showers" case, which is the way it seems like it's been trivialized by the authority figures at your gym. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment; talk about it using that language, without focusing on the orientation issue, and you'll win points (and your case) in this overly PC environment.

Let us know how it turns out. I second the poster who says he hopes you don't lose your gym membership.

NCbear

P.S. I know you're not homophobic, Bigmuscles, because of what you posted way back when about showering with your girlfriend's father and brother and how you responded honestly and openly to their sincerely curious questions about your foreskin and how it "worked." I don't know whether I'd have been as patient or as generous with my time as you were, then. (Sometimes I've snapped, "Go read The Joy of Gay Sex, OK? Then you'll know.")

You seem really level-headed; I hope this experience doesn't reduce your comfort level with other men, regardless of their orientation. (Try not to let the thankfully few rotten apples spoil the entire barrel.)

 

[fortiesfun]

While I appreciate what was unacceptable about the old troll's behavior, as soon as you cross the line from saying you are not interested to using hate speech (Fuck off, Faggot!) and threatening violence (whether or not you meant it), you are the problem, not just a victim. That's not a double standard. That is the rules of all Canadian and American universities of which I know. That you find being propositioned so threatening that you have to react violently is pretty much the dictionary definition of "homophobia."

Let me reiterate that I am not defending the troll's behavior. But, it doesn't require anything more that a direct statement that you are feeling harrassed to stop trolling behavior. As soon as he asked if he could "help," you might have said, "No. And by the way, your behavior is unacceptable in a public locker room. If you don't stop it I'll report you to security." If he still didn't stop, you might have actually reported him. Neither epithets nor violence are necessary. That is your part in the situation, and you need to own up to it and move on.

 

[Danish25DK]

No wonder people are staring at ya but have seen this happen before... Creepy as shit, but im guessing those types are everywhere and some unfortunately thinking they can "get it on" with everyone... Sometimes they just gotta be told otherwise... No other way around it, dude... So thumbs up from me...

 

[JMeister]

Could you file a claim against him with the ombudsman's office as he is creating a hostile environment?


He's the one that should be banned from the gym.