locker rooms/ saunas

[viking]

Typically, public behavior is controlled by the responses of the people that inhabit a space. Social quewes about approporiate behavior are given and recieved and are usually adhered to by most in a social setting.

It seems that saunas are a social space where social quewes are not easily given or recieved. It's dark, it's steamy, it's naked. There is a bit of anonymity and people are generally silent.

This makes it a place which has inherent rules but they are not inforced by social pressure from our peers.

If a person in public is behaving outside of the accepted perameters, usually they will feel pressure to conform when others look on with dissapproval or make comments expressing their discomfort with the situation.

Even here in our forum, there are people who feel unaffected by the sexual behaviors of others in the steam room. There are also those here who participate actively in the behavior. There are some who feel uncomfortable and keep quiet and there are some who leave to remove themselves from the situation.

For some reason the steam room does not have the same social process of self regulation as most other spaces do. Is it that we don't have a very well defined set of rules for what happens in the steamy dark corners of the steam room? Is it that we somehow try to give others privacy in the locker rooms / showers / steam room by diverting our eyes and keeping quiet.
"Mind your own business and keep to yourself."

I think that we do tend to keep to ourselves in a space where everyone is naked or changing or showering. That lack of feedback from those around you opens up the opportunity for people to push the boundaries. The farther the boundaries are allowed to stretch, the more they will be stretched. If actions receive no ill response, then they must be acceptable to others in some respect.

I'm not saying that you do what you want until someone objects, but that is the way our social interactions work..
Just a thought.

 

[Dorset]

I doubt if we'll get anywhere trying to explain these concepts of acceptable behaviour to indianaman, I've seen some of his other posts and I think he's just some kid trying to shock people

I bet if anyone waved their hard on at him he'd be running off crying to his mummy

 

[indianaman_04]

Originally posted by ebviking@Sep 8 2005, 11:32 AM
Typically, public behavior is controlled by the responses of the people that inhabit a space. Social quewes about approporiate behavior are given and recieved and are usually adhered to by most in a social setting.

It seems that saunas are a social space where social quewes are not easily given or recieved. It's dark, it's steamy, it's naked. There is a bit of anonymity and people are generally silent.

This makes it a place which has inherent rules but they are not inforced by social pressure from our peers.

If a person in public is behaving outside of the accepted perameters, usually they will feel pressure to conform when others look on with dissapproval or make comments expressing their discomfort with the situation.

Even here in our forum, there are people who feel unaffected by the sexual behaviors of others in the steam room. There are also those here who participate actively in the behavior. There are some who feel uncomfortable and keep quiet and there are some who leave to remove themselves from the situation.

For some reason the steam room does not have the same social process of self regulation as most other spaces do. Is it that we don't have a very well defined set of rules for what happens in the steamy dark corners of the steam room? Is it that we somehow try to give others privacy in the locker rooms / showers / steam room by diverting our eyes and keeping quiet.
"Mind your own business and keep to yourself."

I think that we do tend to keep to ourselves in a space where everyone is naked or changing or showering. That lack of feedback from those around you opens up the opportunity for people to push the boundaries. The farther the boundaries are allowed to stretch, the more they will be stretched. If actions receive no ill response, then they must be acceptable to others in some respect.

I'm not saying that you do what you want until someone objects, but that is the way our social interactions work..
Just a thought.

[post=341529]Quoted post[/post]​

Interesting and thought-provoking. Thanks for your response. This is, of course, not a black and white matter as some would suggest.

 

[indianaman_04]

Originally posted by Dorset@Sep 8 2005, 11:33 AM
I doubt if we'll get anywhere trying to explain these concepts of acceptable behaviour to indianaman, I've seen some of his other posts and I think he's just some kid trying to shock people

I bet if anyone waved their hard on at him he'd be running off crying to his mummy

[post=341530]Quoted post[/post]​

No, we won't ever get anywhere as long as we continue to personally attack each other. I choose to do my own thinking rather than allow someone else to do it for me. You seem to think that "acceptable" behavior is what the majority thinks is right. That is where you are wrong, I don't care what you say. There are folks who say pornography is unacceptable and the majority find it wrong, yet it is a multi-billion dollar business. "Someone" is participating in this behavior and I dare any of you to say that you don't. That aside and back to the point, you are good at one thing and that is convincing other poor souls that the way you feel is the right way. You are in no way any better than anyone else to who you point fingers.

 

[Alley Blue]

Originally posted by ebviking+Sep 8 2005, 04:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ebviking &#064; Sep 8 2005, 04:32 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>That lack of feedback from those around you opens up the opportunity for people to push the boundaries.  The farther the boundaries are allowed to stretch, the more they will be stretched.

[post=341529]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

Thought provoking post Ebviking&#33;

I do feel if these things go on at a gym and those who are unhappy ( paying customers) simply leave without raising any objections, that this sort of thing will simply continue to go on. As I said before if it was some sort of sex club, where your there to witness and be apart of the action, thats one thing, but this is a Healthclub.

<!--QuoteBegin-Dorset@Sep 8 2005, 04:33 PM
I think he&#39;s just some kid trying to shock people

[post=341530]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]

:bigsmile: .......I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt....

indianaman_04, don&#39;t feel personally attacked, your entitled to your opinions
just as we are.

 

[viking]

That lack of feedback from those around you opens up the opportunity for people to push the boundaries.  The farther the boundaries are allowed to stretch, the more they will be stretched.

[post=341529]Quoted post[/post]​

Thought provoking post Ebviking&#33;

I do feel if these things go on at a gym and those who are unhappy ( paying customers) simply leave without raising any objections, that this sort of thing will simply continue to go on.

I think he&#39;s just some kid trying to shock people

[post=341530]Quoted post[/post]​

It will definitely go on.

Steamrooms ( at least in my experience ) are a place where some men go to be voyeristic or exhibitionistic. Sitting around wet and naked with other naked men in partial darkness will always elicit a sexual response from someone in a group.

You can bet that&#39;s not going to change.

 

[Alley Blue]

Originally posted by ebviking@Sep 8 2005, 04:55 PM
Steamrooms ( at least in my experience )  are a place where some men go to be voyeristic or exhibitionistic.  Sitting around wet and naked with other naked men in partial darkness will always elicit a sexual response from someone in a group.

You can bet that&#39;s not going to change.

[post=341535]Quoted post[/post]​

If a Healthcare Club, which advertises itself as an upscale establishment and recruits members under this premise, finds, after a few complaints, that there is behavior going on that wasn’t apart of the original agreement, management will step-in. For the simple reason the Health club does&#39;nt want to lose money because certain patrons are turned off by the loose atmosphere in the saunas and decide to discontinue there membership.

After its brought to the locker room attendants attention, this sort of behavior will be cut down considerably. Can that sort of behavior be cut out all together by management....No. After having the attendant come in to break-up these blow job/ jerk-off sessions a couple of times, will patrons feel less and less inclined and comfortable in participating in them out in the open .....Yes&#33;

 

[viking]

Originally posted by alleyblu+Sep 8 2005, 09:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alleyblu &#064; Sep 8 2005, 09:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ebviking@Sep 8 2005, 04:55 PM
Steamrooms ( at least in my experience )  are a place where some men go to be voyeristic or exhibitionistic.  Sitting around wet and naked with other naked men in partial darkness will always elicit a sexual response from someone in a group.

You can bet that&#39;s not going to change.

[post=341535]Quoted post[/post]​

If a Healthcare Club, which advertises itself as an upscale establishment and recruits members under this premise, finds, after a few complaints, that there is behavior going on that wasn’t apart of the original agreement, management will step-in. For the simple reason the Health club does&#39;nt want to lose money because certain patrons are turned off by the loose atmosphere in the saunas and decide to discontinue there membership.

After its brought to the locker room attendants attention, this sort of behavior will be cut down considerably. Can that sort of behavior be cut out all together by management....No. After having the attendant come in to break-up these blow job/ jerk-off sessions a couple of times, will patrons feel less and less inclined and comfortable in participating in them out in the open .....Yes&#33;

[post=341538]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


You&#39;re right there.

If someone intervenes, it will likely slow it down or at least cause people to be less bold and obvious. My original comment though, is that for some reason, nobody says anything about it so there is no real motivation for the activity to cease.

I personally , am a huge voyer. I get a kick out of seeing it.
I don&#39;t participate, but I don&#39;t object either.

So, I&#39;m guilty of allowing the activity to continue because I watch and don&#39;t give disapproval.

 

[Alley Blue]

Originally posted by ebviking@Sep 8 2005, 05:34 PM
My original comment though, is that for some reason, nobody says anything about it so there is no real motivation for the activity to cease.

[post=341543]Quoted post[/post]​

I will agree with that&#33;

I guess my gripe, for the most part, is I don&#39;t wanna close my eyes in the steam room and then open them to find myself in the middle of a 3 way porn scene re-inactment :bigsmile:.

 

[viking]

Originally posted by alleyblu+Sep 8 2005, 09:59 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alleyblu &#064; Sep 8 2005, 09:59 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ebviking@Sep 8 2005, 05:34 PM
My original comment though, is that for some reason, nobody says anything about it so there is no real motivation for the activity to cease.

[post=341543]Quoted post[/post]​

I will agree with that&#33;

I guess my gripe, for the most part, is I don&#39;t wanna close my eyes in the steam room and then open them to find myself in the middle of a 3 way porn scene re-inactment :bigsmile:.

[post=341548]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Really??
Hmmmmm???

I do. :evilgrin:

 

[B_Hung Muscle]

So do I.

And, again, I gotta clue you in to this reality: During the summers in Washington DC and New York City when it is hot and humid and gross outside, the only guys I see going into these parts of the gym are guys looking for play. Granted, my gyms tend to be in predominantly gay neighborhoods, but not all the guys going in there for a wank would identify themselves as homosexual.

In terms of losing business and social acceptability: you need to look at what happened at David Barton Gym in New York. The management turned a blind eye to what was going on (and there it was full-on sex&#33 in the wet areas of the gym. They didn&#39;t lose money; quite the opposite. In this case, the public sex in the gym was socially acceptable and profitable. I would bet there are more guys who join gyms for the play-time than who are so offended they give up their membership over this. (How many guys have you seen who don&#39;t even bother to work out and head straight for the showers?) I would seriously doubt if the hanky-panky is not profitable for the gym...

 

[viking]

Originally posted by Hung Muscle@Sep 8 2005, 10:10 AM
So do I.

And, again, I gotta clue you in to this reality: During the summers in Washington DC and New York City when it is hot and humid and gross outside, the only guys I see going into these parts of the gym are guys looking for play. Granted, my gyms tend to be in predominantly gay neighborhoods, but not all the guys going in there for a wank would identify themselves as homosexual.

In terms of losing business and social acceptability: you need to look at what happened at David Barton Gym in New York. The management turned a blind eye to what was going on (and there it was full-on sex&#33 in the wet areas of the gym. They didn&#39;t lose money; quite the opposite. In this case, the public sex in the gym was socially acceptable and profitable. I would bet there are more guys who join gyms for the play-time than who are so offended they give up their membership over this. (How many guys have you seen who don&#39;t even bother to work out and head straight for the showers?) I would seriously doubt if the hanky-panky is not profitable for the gym...

[post=341550]Quoted post[/post]​

I think you&#39;re point of location is key.
I used to go to the Central YMCA in SF. It was a free for all in there. Quite a show.

Now, I belong to the Oakland Hills Tennis Club. I&#39;ve never seen as much as a semi in the steamroom or showers.

I have to admit that I&#39;m dissapointed.

 

[lapdog2001]

I also think the location and purpose of the club is key. I have never seen even a semi-chubby in any gym/health/YMCA/Locker room I have ever been in, never mind any sort of sexual activity. The saunas and steam rooms I&#39;ve seen are well lit and many require a towel, swimwear or shorts be worn for &#39;sanitary&#39; purposes.

I&#39;ve never seen any behavior that could be even remotely considered &#39;sexual&#39; in a health club, and I&#39;m very glad I haven&#39;t. Go to a sex club if you want sex, go to a health club if you want to get healthy. If I went to a men&#39;s only &#39;health club&#39; in a predomenently gay area, then I might expect to see something different, if that is what the management of the club condones.

LapDog

 

[Latinoboy9]

I would show that person my erection of corse&#33; Jose&#39;Latinoboy9

 

[KinkGuy]

Originally posted by alleyblu@Sep 8 2005, 09:15 AM
....blow jobs at a gym&#39;s public sauna (for which i&#39;m paying a pretty penny for) with people around strikes me as "wrong". There&#39;s a time and a place for everything.

[post=341514]Quoted post[/post]​

Or you just need to join the "right" kind of gym.
O8)

 

[Dorset]

Originally posted by indianaman_04@Sep 8 2005, 04:41 PM
You seem to think that "acceptable" behavior is what the majority thinks is right.

[post=341533]Quoted post[/post]​

Yep, that was right last time I checked, I think it&#39;s called a &#39;democracy&#39;, look it up sometime, it&#39;s the reason things like drug dealing are illegal even though it&#39;s a booming business

Back talking to the sensible people now, I think boundaries get blurred as soon as people take their clothes off. As this is something usually not accepted in society they having trouble reaching a logical conclusion as to where it should end
I think in some part of their minds they are taking off their social restraints as well as their clothes. It could just be a feeling of liberation gone too far

 

[B_Hung Muscle]

Originally posted by Dorset+Sep 9 2005, 02:46 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dorset &#064; Sep 9 2005, 02:46 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-indianaman_04@Sep 8 2005, 04:41 PM
You seem to think that "acceptable" behavior is what the majority thinks is right. 

[post=341533]Quoted post[/post]​

Yep, that was right last time I checked, I think it&#39;s called a &#39;democracy&#39;, look it up sometime, it&#39;s the reason things like drug dealing are illegal even though it&#39;s a booming business

Back talking to the sensible people now, I think boundaries get blurred as soon as people take their clothes off. As this is something usually not accepted in society they having trouble reaching a logical conclusion as to where it should end
I think in some part of their minds they are taking off their social restraints as well as their clothes. It could just be a feeling of liberation gone too far

[post=341716]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Inspired by this thread, I tested the theory of "acceptable behavior being what the majority thinks is right" last night. Went to the gym at 7 p.m., worked out hard, hit the lockerroom at 8:15 p.m., ran into an old (straight) friend, chatted with him naked for a bit, then went into the shower. (Since it was just him and me and the straight nasty guy who cleans up the towels, I didn&#39;t think it was right to pull on my cock since the majority would probably have found it unacceptable.)

There were two other guys showering. Both went into sauna. One was kind of short and dumpy but young and cute. He sits in the sauna for hours on end with a huge bottle of water, clearly waiting for something to happen but never initiates anything. The other guy was one of the trainers. African-American, about 5&#39;9 with an incredible body. HOT&#33; Muscles everywhere. I assumed he was straight.

With these two in the sauna -- one who never plays and one who is straight -- I assumed that nothing would be happening in there. The majority would have found it unacceptable for me to strart playing with my cock. I walked into the sauna and sat down, being totally well-behaved.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, but then the magic started. The hot muscular guy starts stealing glances at me and does a little innocent readjusting of his package. Could be a straight guy whose meat under his towel was getting a little sweaty; could be a guy interested in jerking in the sauna. I was curious so I responded in kind. And he did it again. And so did I. And so did he.

All the while, the little dumpy guy stared straight ahead, hands on his knees -- nothing was going on there.

Moral of the story -- since we outnumbered him two to one, I guess it would have been socially acceptable for us to whip out our cocks and wack off right there, right? But we didn&#39;t. Instead we hit the steamroom where we were alone and brought ourselves off. He has a fanstastic cock that matches his build: thick, long and hot&#33; He could clearly join this board.

After we shot our loads, we laughed, and introduced ourselves. His name is Andre. Yummmmmmmmmmm. I got home about 10 p.m., called my boyfriend and told him about my dalliance in the steamroom. He jerked off hearing about it. Again, we were in the majority on the phone call (even if Karl Rove was listening in again) so I guess it was acceptable, right?

 

[Dorset]

Originally posted by Hung Muscle+Sep 9 2005, 12:18 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hung Muscle &#064; Sep 9 2005, 12:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by Dorset@Sep 9 2005, 02:46 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-indianaman_04

@Sep 8 2005, 04:41 PM
You seem to think that "acceptable" behavior is what the majority thinks is right. 

[post=341533]Quoted post[/post]​

Yep, that was right last time I checked, I think it&#39;s called a &#39;democracy&#39;, look it up sometime, it&#39;s the reason things like drug dealing are illegal even though it&#39;s a booming business

Back talking to the sensible people now, I think boundaries get blurred as soon as people take their clothes off. As this is something usually not accepted in society they having trouble reaching a logical conclusion as to where it should end
I think in some part of their minds they are taking off their social restraints as well as their clothes. It could just be a feeling of liberation gone too far

[post=341716]Quoted post[/post]​

Inspired by this thread, I tested the theory of "acceptable behavior being what the majority thinks is right" last night. Went to the gym at 7 p.m., worked out hard, hit the lockerroom at 8:15 p.m., ran into an old (straight) friend, chatted with him naked for a bit, then went into the shower. (Since it was just him and me and the straight nasty guy who cleans up the towels, I didn&#39;t think it was right to pull on my cock since the majority would probably have found it unacceptable.)

There were two other guys showering. Both went into sauna. One was kind of short and dumpy but young and cute. He sits in the sauna for hours on end with a huge bottle of water, clearly waiting for something to happen but never initiates anything. The other guy was one of the trainers. African-American, about 5&#39;9 with an incredible body. HOT&#33; Muscles everywhere. I assumed he was straight.

With these two in the sauna -- one who never plays and one who is straight -- I assumed that nothing would be happening in there. The majority would have found it unacceptable for me to strart playing with my cock. I walked into the sauna and sat down, being totally well-behaved.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, but then the magic started. The hot muscular guy starts stealing glances at me and does a little innocent readjusting of his package. Could be a straight guy whose meat under his towel was getting a little sweaty; could be a guy interested in jerking in the sauna. I was curious so I responded in kind. And he did it again. And so did I. And so did he.

All the while, the little dumpy guy stared straight ahead, hands on his knees -- nothing was going on there.

Moral of the story -- since we outnumbered him two to one, I guess it would have been socially acceptable for us to whip out our cocks and wack off right there, right? But we didn&#39;t. Instead we hit the steamroom where we were alone and brought ourselves off. He has a fanstastic cock that matches his build: thick, long and hot&#33; He could clearly join this board.

After we shot our loads, we laughed, and introduced ourselves. His name is Andre. Yummmmmmmmmmm. I got home about 10 p.m., called my boyfriend and told him about my dalliance in the steamroom. He jerked off hearing about it. Again, we were in the majority on the phone call (even if Karl Rove was listening in again) so I guess it was acceptable, right?

[post=341740]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
I wouldn&#39;t have had a problem with it if I was the other guy in the steam room because you left for the actual act so you had privicy, all you did in public was a bit of flirting.
I would say it&#39;s icy ground though - the bigger issue is would you have stopped if someone else entered the stream room mid-way through your encounter?

 

[Alley Blue]

Originally posted by Hung Muscle@Sep 9 2005, 12:18 PM
Moral of the story -- since we outnumbered him two to one, I guess it would have been socially acceptable for us to whip out our cocks and wack off right there, right?  But we didn&#39;t.  Instead we hit the steamroom where we were alone and brought ourselves off.  He has a fanstastic cock that matches his build:  thick, long and hot&#33;  He could clearly join this board. 

I actually find this agreeable. You were discreet, and you took the action to a more private location........I can dig it....... :smoke:

 

[indianaman_04]

Originally posted by Dorset+Sep 9 2005, 02:46 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dorset &#064; Sep 9 2005, 02:46 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-indianaman_04@Sep 8 2005, 04:41 PM
You seem to think that "acceptable" behavior is what the majority thinks is right. 

[post=341533]Quoted post[/post]​

Yep, that was right last time I checked, I think it&#39;s called a &#39;democracy&#39;, look it up sometime, it&#39;s the reason things like drug dealing are illegal even though it&#39;s a booming business

Back talking to the sensible people now, I think boundaries get blurred as soon as people take their clothes off. As this is something usually not accepted in society they having trouble reaching a logical conclusion as to where it should end
I think in some part of their minds they are taking off their social restraints as well as their clothes. It could just be a feeling of liberation gone too far

[post=341716]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
Let me just say that I take great offense that you imply that I am not sensible. This is typical of someone who follows insteads of leads. You go along with the majority, narrowly minded and incapable of thinking for yourself. Yes, drug dealing is "illegal" because that is what you have been taught, so is drinking while driving and the list goes on and on. Do you not ever question what you are told?? Just because "someone" tells you it is illegal. This has nothing to do with democracy, you fool, but since you brought it up, you probably voted for Bush, too, didn&#39;t you? Because what he tells you is wrong or right, you accept because you can&#39;t think for yourself. I bet you are put on a leash and taken out nightly to do your business, too. Always question authority, they know less than you which is even scarier&#33;