London Riots Burn: Baby Burn!

dandelion

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there's only so much you can do in a short time.
True. building new housing has been banned for perhaps 50 years with increasing severity. It has taken a while to have full effect.

Also, ppl need to realise that often, the 'rich ppl' have worked bloody hard to get where they are, sometimes from similarly deprived conditions, and not just had it handed to them on a plate. As well as enabling ppl to get a foot on the ladder - I think acceptable standards need to be laid out. Mebbe better infrastructure, care, inner city schools need to be created to do this, tho? < also creating a greater sense of pride in the community for poorer areas?
You mean we might need to spend money on the poor? tricky!


Housing...how to create more - while also not completely wrecking green belt. Identify lowest impact sites (a certain % of green belt?), plus brownfield sites, and regeneration. Maybe also take away restrictions on housing density for new estates, so more expensive housing can also be produced where needed?
We already have a growing proportion of 'affordable' housing, which in officialspeak translates as tiny and crammed in. It isnt what people want. No doubt it most impacts on the poor. We have an official positions which condones or even encourages population growth but prohibits housing growth, while richer people obviously expect to be able to buy better housing, so demand rises even if population stays fixed. Nimby rules. Obviously it is difficult to create more housing inside a built up area such as London. Which is why the government previously had a new towns policy and also tried to shift people and industry elswehere. It doesnt now. The people hurt least by this problem are those who can pay most, and since they frequently also make the rules, nothing has been done about this. Instead of once upon a time building new towns with council housing and industrial sites and encouraging people to move out, now the government caps their housing benefit to try to force them out. So they arent happy? amazing!
 

arthurdent

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The average POOR get £65-80/child, the same for themselves, free healthcare, free school meals, free housing up to £400/wk for a new claim, £1,000/wk for an old one, & zero taxes.

POOR!!!!! Not in the UK. The benefits here are crazy - why not see how much you could get!!! https://www.turn2us.entitledto.co.uk
If the benefits are crazy, then it's because they are too little!

I have been claiming Job Seekers Allowance (income based) since 29th June and they just got round to sending me the assessment last week.

I am a single man with no dependents so I get £67.50 per week, but it's paid fortnightly, three days after each signing-on. The government has decided that £67.50 is the minimum amount that anyone needs to live on each week and incidentally, it is counted as taxable income. I can also get free prescriptions.

I have been told I won't have to pay Council Tax (normally £84 pcm) while I am on benefits. I own my own flat, but it is leasehold so I will still have to pay my Ground Rent (£160 per annum) and my Maintenance Charge (which includes Building Insurance) (£25 per calendar month).

So that £67.50 has to cover those two charges and essentials like water rates (£28 pcm), electricity (for heating, lighting, cooking and hot water) (£52 pcm) and food (about £30 pw).

Also non-essential but fairly basic items like landline telephone (about £20 pcm), TV licence (£12.37 pcm) and Contents Insurance (£68 pa).

Then there's the luxury items involved in running a car like Road Tax (£167.50 pa), Insurance (at least £300 pa), MOT (£30 pa), Servicing (at least £50 pa), petrol (£1.36 per litre), RAC breakdown (£50.50 pa) and a basic mobile phone (£5 pcm).

So I'm eating from the Tesco Value range, and from their reduced items sections and buying toiletries at PoundWorld at the moment!
 
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rbkwp

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbkwp
say it again

demise of Britain, for a period

way the world goes around'
Oh, cheer up will ya? It's happened before.

demise of Britain, for a period

Dont fret if Joll
i dont need cheering up, i am HAPPY its happening, was obvious to many people it was going to happen..
very obvious

What appears to you.....that makes my observation any less valid than the other 100 on this thread
but you need to single my few words out huh?
I certainly dont need 'cheering up for Britain'
being nasty .... you Poms reap the rewards you have sown
enz


and the disabled person UK i communicate with, has a far better perspective on things than 1/2 of what i read on here.
(at a geuss, are you a well to do, financially satisfied accountant huh, duh?)
 
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rbkwp

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further more..
and what makes up the thought that the almighty Britain should be exempt from the woes of the World
Whatever woes they may be, whomever started them.

Live with it, yes the wealthy dont like seeing there kingdom fall down.
or the wealthy of any nation .. to be sure too be sure
Why they accumulate wealth, for that never to exist day.
Lock em up is there answer...huh?
and which British Politicians ( and most every other country WW ) were caught out double dipping/HANDs not fingers, in the till, only a short while ago..
You think the poor and disabled are able to make policy to feed themselves?
enz
 

Jason

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I think we have a new sort of crime. This is ORGANISED rioting as entertainment and looting organised by gangs of kids mostly in the 14-18 age group. While the motivation will get a lot of discussion the method is that the average 14-18 year old inner city gang member now has a Blackberry or similar. The solution seems to come in making the method impossible. We need:
1) Better police monitoring and use of social network sites - we need many employees who monitor these.
2) Identification of those using social networking anonymity to incite crime. It is essentia that the police have a way of identifying criminals and that social networking sites co-operate fully.
Other nations will get this sort of crime. Britain is first because we have a generation of underprivileged kids who are nonetheless able to get access to expensive technology.

There is a popular mood swing towards more powers for the police - today the Daily Mail view is prevailing.
 

Jason

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We already have a growing proportion of 'affordable' housing, which in officialspeak translates as tiny and crammed in. It isnt what people want. No doubt it most impacts on the poor. We have an official positions which condones or even encourages population growth but prohibits housing growth, while richer people obviously expect to be able to buy better housing, so demand rises even if population stays fixed. !

Yes, we have run out of space. Our rules on building houses may well be too restrictive. However there is no quick solution. Indeed the problem is getting worse. With worry over markets many are moving their money into a safe haven - a property. They may neither live in it nor rent it out, just have it as an asset. In London and SE our already high property prices are getting higher. Then there is migration into the UK.
 

B_crackoff

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If the benefits are crazy, then it's because they are too little!...I have been claiming Job Seekers Allowance (income based) since 29th June and they just got round to sending me the assessment last week.

I am a single man with no dependents so I get £67.50 per week, but it's paid fortnightly...So I'm eating from the Tesco Value range, and from their reduced items sections and buying toiletries at PoundWorld at the moment!

I agree! For single people it's shit - it should be higher. I pity you if you're going to claim housing benefit - that can take 4 months, from the useless state employees! If you knock out kids, you actually get more for each kid than another adult. That's crazy, especially when you consider household economies of scale.

Good Luck!:smile:

I do not regard £80 per week as a lot for an adult to live on.

See above, they don't get that It is a massive amount for kids - that's why the marginal tax rate for people with kids trying to return to work is so high @ 70%! Anyone can check that Entitled to link

I question whether the rich in society also ought to get a subsidy to have kids, because they can afford their own, but the idea is not to punish those who are born into a poor household.

It should be a SAFETY NET, not a poverty trap! If people choose to have more than a couple of kids, that should their fiscal responsibility - no one else's - why should you pay for someone else to have kids & not work, when you work & don't feel that you can afford it yourself!

Free housing worth £1000 per week? You have to choose, do you house the poor or leave them on the streets?

]They can move to cheaper areas of the country. The other beneficiaries of this scam are landlords charging exorbitant rents to the state.

I can't afford to rent a £400/wk house, how the fuck, & why the fuck should someone WHO DOES NOTHING get given it for free? It is a waste of the nation's taxes.


Didnt you hear those MP's recently in the expenses scandal? They just cannot survive on less than £100,000 a year. So how can anyone else?

Hey, fuck them too - they're more spongers off the taxpayer aren't they - & all in a public sector gold plated pension too!

Oh, cheer up will ya? It's happened before.
The response of the general public has been fantastic - lots of ppl on the streets cleaning things up, protecting their property -
That was pretty cool

It's capped at £500 pw, max (for total benefits, I think?). HB tends to be a lot less usually - here it's £79 per week, available to those who earn less than £185 pw.
Addressing this to Crackoff really, Dandy, not you. :p

Family of 12 refugees handed £6k-a-month UK home | Mail Online

As I stated, that's only for new claims. Claims before April 1st are at a higher rate, as in the case £1460 WEEK!

. Areas of London which were historically housing for the poor are now full of yuppies.

That's not exactly true - pop down to the Becontree Estate Becontree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You might as well say that housing in London historically composed of 99% white people, & now it's about 50-50.

Why pay £400,000 to build a house in Central London that you can build for £60K elsewhere. Why pay £400 a week rent for non workers, when you can pay £100?

I know few here have ever practically engaged in capital rationing, but every business does it, & every government is forced to.

We've been living off debt too long, the interest payments are too high, so we're all going to have a drop in living standards.

If you want to subsidise people living in better areas & accommodation than you, be my guest, & pop your money through their letter box. The welfare state was never designed to be anything more than a basics provider.
 
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B_crackoff

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Oh honestly Crackoff, do you ever stop being a vicious right wing cliché? You should write for the Daily Mail, you'd win at that hands down. :rolleyes:

What's right wing about what I wrote? Oh yes, the Loony Left characterise all that they don't agree with as right wing, don't they!

You can't have it both ways, either these riots are nothing but robbery, thuggery and opportunistic criminality or they are race riots. Unless your thesis is that the two are one in the same.... ?:confused:

Who said it was a race riot. A riot with a heavy raciaL element yes. The 2 are completely different. Having spent a day watching it being characterised as such, by black community leaders, & politician such as Red Ken myself - one of your boys - you should think that I have it spot on!:biggrin1:

Anyone with half a brain can check what I'm saying about London's history of rioting, I'm not that concerned that you clearly aren't familiar with that history and it's certainly not my responsibility to educate you.

Any London riot that didn't have a racial element (bar the returning WW1 soldiers) in a century, was purely done by your friends the Trots, anarchists & the left, though really some barely had enough support to be called a riot at all.

There has never been a right wing riot! Funnily enough, the left don't riot when their boys are in power, & killing millions though, do they? Or when they introduced tuition fees:biggrin1:


If you're rich you get to ripoff people with virtual impunity, but woe betide you if you're poor and decide to smash up a Dixons. The hypocrisy of the Kleptocrats is breathtaking.

The last Labour government was a bunch of kleptocrats. Instead of stealing from the rich & giving to the poor, they stole from the middle classes, & stole from future generations.

But the middle class don't riot now, do they?:wink:
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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The last Labour government was a bunch of kleptocrats. Instead of stealing from the rich & giving to the poor, they stole from the middle classes, & stole from future generations.

But the middle class don't riot now, do they?:wink:



Boring. We've been over all this before, I'm not a Labour supporter, not a socialist (or variant thereof) and do not espouse left wing politics. Pick another smoke screen to hide your prejudices behind. :rolleyes:
 
7

798686

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say it again

demise of Britain, for a period

way the world goes around'
Oh, cheer up will ya? It's happened before.

demise of Britain, for a period

Dont fret if Joll
i dont need cheering up, i am HAPPY its happening, was obvious to many people it was going to happen..
very obvious
You're happy it's happening? I get what you mean (bad decisions and way of life to a certain extent bring certain consequences), but it was probably the worst way you could've put it.

What appears to you.....that makes my observation any less valid than the other 100 on this thread
but you need to single my few words out huh?
I certainly dont need 'cheering up for Britain'
being nasty .... you Poms reap the rewards you have sown
enz
That IS the reason I singled it out. Most people on here have come up with sensible explanations, solutions on how to get it under control or prevent it happening in the future or support for the general UK populace - you just came on here with an axe to grind and delighted in ppls misfortune.

and the disabled person UK i communicate with, has a far better perspective on things than 1/2 of what i read on here.
(at a geuss, are you a well to do, financially satisfied accountant huh, duh?)
Nope - you're half right, and half terribly wrong. I am disabled - living on £90 pw benefits as I try to repair my life after long-term illness. Funnily enough, I'm training to be an accountant, but I'm not in the least bit well to do, or financially satisfied. Perhaps now you'll listen to what I have to say a bit more? Altho I doubt it...

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being harsh on you, but you need to think a bit more before you post.
 
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798686

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The following update was issued on the Queen's own facebook page...
 

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B_curiousme01

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I agree with most everything you. I respect it tobecause it's honest and real. But your police cannot carry a gun, so they have to run! If your dad, brother or bf was a cop, and was the one who ran, maybe you wouldn't think it was so funny? They would probably have been shot, tazered,tear gassed, etc. here within the first twenty minutes of riot number one. EOS.

People who flame you and make excuses are the ones who have taught their kids to be just like them....wanting more than is realistic. Wanting and needing are so far from the same issue.

Worldwide population has exploded and there's not enough of everything for everyone. We all will be forced to make due with less. NOT MORE! I predict that In 40 years or less, water will be the numero uno problem and will be very scarce and super expensive. After that issue will be nuclear and biological terrorism everywhere. Too bad we can't seem to focus on real needs that sustain life on our planet.

If someone lives in a country of people who do not produce "stuff" then that country has no money. Be it because of corruption or lack of entrepreneurship, assets or whatever...countries such afganistan, somalia, india, etc. These kids literally starve and cannot even spell their name! I feel for them. No food. No education. No immuzations. No future. No options. No nothing.

If the world could stop buying Chinese products and would spend a bit more for things made locally to them, economies would begin to bloom. You might be really shocked at how many "made in china" tags you come across in your own home.

Racism is worldwide and I think the western countries are seriously trying to work through these longstanding issues.
I don't think your riots are a purely racial issue as some say. It provided an excuse. Period.

I personally think it's mostly related to a complete lack of parenting care combined with all the social progams and worldwide religious problems that are at the root. We're in deep and I fear headed for a very bad ending.

Thanks for your very honest post. You might not agree with me, and that's cool. I promise not to send hate mail, write a thread to try to humilate you, carjack you, or even come to your house to call you out and then burn it down. Crazy shit!

Damn. The world is seriously going to hell.

The background of this is: Crack dealer shot dead - by the police - sparks protest - that leads to localised riot - that spreads to all London as kids of all colours decide it's fun to loot.

London Burns As Rioters And Looters Run Amok | LBC
UPDATE: Riots spread to Colliers Wood Tandem shopping centre &#40;From Wimbledon Guardian)


The twitter feed has been surprisingly amusing.

Twitter

I don't want to say that I predicted riots this summer BUT I DID:tongue:.

Of course, this is headless, aimless, pathetic kids using Twitter, Facebook, & their Blackberrys, but still.

The police response of not cracking heads, & only protecting their own stations UPDATE: Riot police in Ilford as town centre locked down - Crime - London 24
has been pathetic. I've been in 2 areas already tonight, & I've never seen a more gutless bunch of coppers, & more greedy looters.

Most of these little shits will be scuttling off to mommy's & their safe warm, made up bed tonight.

I wonder if Gaddaffi will recognise the rioters as the legitimate Govt of the UK soon. I'll be on the lookout for bargains off Ebay tomorrow!:rolleyes: There's no need to pay child benefit in London anymore - the kids can support themselves!

Here's a good video of a pissed off black woman having a go at the rioters!
Matthew Moore - Truly extraordinary speech by fearless West Indian woman in face of #Hackney rioters. Pls watch - Twitvid

As I speak, the facebook messages I got about Woolwich & Romford already seem to be kicking off too. Where are their lousy parents eh?
 

rbkwp

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defensive reaction of which i am entitled
DONE
my self imposed 3/4 posts per this type of thread
aint going over that
Fin
enz

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being harsh on you, but you need to think a bit more before you post.

THAT will never happen Joll
folk can rationalize ALL they want lpsg, not going to change a damn thing.
expressions of thoughts is what its all about, and left at that
take it or leave it... thats my take on it
if its expected the Politics thread is any different well tuff shit it sure aint, the things i have seen/read on this forum belong in the funnys
and that is how i post on lpsg ignore me is fine i wont be worrying re certain folk

eg
s), but it was probably the worst way you could've put it.

and here i am playing the game of dissecting word for word
have you stopped to think it MAY have been the way you interpreted it..and it can go on and on and on...
 

B_stanmarsh14

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Just been in to Nottingham..... damage not as bad as I thought, though JD sports, Hoofer's Gym, and Sports Direct round Victoria Centre area, has had a fair few windows put in, Plus Bus Station end of Victoria Centre has no doors, and canning circus pig station, apart from one borded up window and a bit of charring to the front door, looks ok.

Debahams on old mk sq though, have pre-empted poss riots, and has already borded up their shop front, barring the entrance doors.

Think most of it, kicked off in St Anns, and small bit in the Meadows area, where the small pig station got cooked, along with one of their cars.
 

Jason

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A view that I haven't seen in the media is this. Surely we are now looking at hundreds of "police brutality" claims against the police. We also have a situation where a rioter - possibly legally a child - may be seriously injured or worse. I think it is these fears that stopped the police acting.

Cameron specifically ruled out the police being hampered by so-called human rights issues. I take it that this means the police will be governed by the Universal Declaration of Rights (real human rights) - but that the government will stand between the police and prosecution by the European Court of Human Rights. This may well lead the UK into direct conflict with the ECHR and therefore the EU.

IMO the ECHR has done much to enforce human rights but has also abused its authority through an over-extension of the directives under which it was established. It has become political, and there are overwhelming doubts about the competance of some of its judges. If an effect of the present problem is that the UK leaves the jurisdiction of the ECHR then Cameron will find overwhelming public support.
 

B_stanmarsh14

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It's capped at £500 pw, max (for total benefits, I think?). HB tends to be a lot less usually - here it's £79 per week, available to those who earn less than £185 pw.

Depends where you live, and what local authority you come under, but this is the rates for Nottingham / Derby, coming from Erewash Borough Council (Find the obvious typo).

http://www.erewash.gov.uk/Images/LHA%20Rates_tcm20-134855.doc

Nope - you're half right, and half terribly wrong. I am disabled - living on £90 pw benefits as I try to repair my life after long-term illness. Funnily enough, I'm training to be an accountant, but I'm not in the least bit well to do, or financially satisfied. Perhaps now you'll listen to what I have to say a bit more? Although I doubt it...

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being harsh on you, but you need to think a bit more before you post.

I know where you are coming from with this..... Full-Time carer myself for mum (I only cost the government a 1/4 of what it would cost to get in the needed privately supplied services, plus mum gets someone she knows she can trust, and get any needed jobs done).

All I get, is Income Support + Carers Allowance, just making over £95 per week, and me housing benefit paid, of around £85 (I think) per week, making things less than the national minimum wage.

Whilst yes there are numbers of "freeloaders" and lazy sit on my arse types in the system, it's no fun for those like Joll and myself, having to draw on state help, just to get by in life.

I have even been maliciously reported as working and not living in my flat before, and with that, payments being stopped for my appt (Suspect my ex, who's also been trolling me on these very forums), and came close to loosing my appt, if it was not for good support from the likes of Shelter Nottingham (National housing and homeless charity), who stuck the wind up Erewash Borough Council big time.
 

vince

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I think we have a new sort of crime. This is ORGANISED rioting as entertainment and looting organised by gangs of kids mostly in the 14-18 age group. While the motivation will get a lot of discussion the method is that the average 14-18 year old inner city gang member now has a Blackberry or similar. The solution seems to come in making the method impossible. We need:
1) Better police monitoring and use of social network sites - we need many employees who monitor these.
2) Identification of those using social networking anonymity to incite crime. It is essentia that the police have a way of identifying criminals and that social networking sites co-operate fully.
Other nations will get this sort of crime. Britain is first because we have a generation of underprivileged kids who are nonetheless able to get access to expensive technology.

There is a popular mood swing towards more powers for the police - today the Daily Mail view is prevailing.
Sounds a bit Orwellian don't you think? I mean going down that path, the cure can be worse than the problem. Britain, even before 7/7, was/is the most security conscious place I have ever been. Cameras are everywhere watching everyone's every move and I don't think they have had any deterrent effect on the present situation. More listening in and the ability to shut down social networking hasn't helped Mubarak, or Gaddafi or al-Assad. It's sad to think the British would even contemplate such a thing. That genie is out of the bag and there's no putting it back in unless you have a complete police state happening.


If people are going to revolt or just blow off pent up social steam with criminal rioting, their methodology is irrelevant. They will always find a way. America had horrific city-wide riots in the 1960's and there wasn't a mobile telephone within forty years of the place. Blackberries were something you ate with ice cream in August.
 

vince

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Maybe if the general populous showed a bit more backbone about protecting themselves and their property AND their children, the problem wouldn't even exist. Some of your immigrant communities know exactly how to handle hoodlums.

London riots: 'People are fighting back. It's their neighbourhoods at stake' | UK news | The Guardian

When the rioters came to attack the premises of Kurdish and Turkish businesses in Hackney's Stoke Newington High Street and Kingsland Road on Monday night, the owners were waiting for them

"There were a lot of them. We came out of our shops but the police asked us to do nothing. But the police did not do anything so, as more came, we chased them off ourselves." The staff from a local kebab restaurant ran at the attackers, doner knives in their hands. "I don't think they will be coming back," Karagoz said.


"We have businesses and work hard for what we have. As parents we want our children to work, earn money and be able to buy what they want, not steal it. Our young people know we would be ashamed of them if they were doing this."
The last bit is the most telling to me. These are not lazy people when it comes to work and their families.