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D_Bob_Crotchitch

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tallguypns said:
I feel that there is so much more that I need to say to justify who I am to you, but, as I feared with what I've already written, it would just be called yet another whining sesssion by tallguy.
Not because you are inferior people, but because my behaviour is offensive to those who call me an online friend and because I dont have anyone in my real life that I can talk to.
I have tried to be your friend. I am happy that you have let me get even close enough to say hi to me when I enter the chat. I am not here seeking hookups, a lover, or anything huge. I make onlines friends with guys because my body is so badly broken, I can't do much after I do my job.
Get help for the depression. I have to take a supplement 2 times a day everyday to keep things balanced for me. My immune system destroys my seratonin.
 

fortiesfun

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tallguypns said:
I never said or even intended to imply I had a crappy past. I merely recounted my experiences. If I had said: "My past was the most wonderful time in my life. I had ever wish fulfilled, and everyone loved me" would it make my problem with depression and my attitude any less of a problem?

Nope, but I bet it would have made it clearer to you that your depression was not "caused" by your past. As it is, what I somehow hope to convey, and without judgment because I have been down similar paths myself, is that the depression seems quite independent of the incidents and is probably a biochemical issue and not an emotional or attitudinal one.

And about the common gay experience that you mentioned. What does THAT say about homosexuals? It's ok for everyone to treat everyone crappy because they're gay? Just a thought.

Again, I mean to be only supportive, and part of that is noting that most gay men go through experiences that definitely NOT OKAY and still don't feel as you do. Lots of people have a "good reason" to be depressed and aren't because something about regular chemistry overrides the tendency to hold on to the negativity, even when the causes of it are very real. Most people who are depressed, whether or not they have plausible reasons, find that it is a chemical reason that they feel as they do, and chemical solutions have made for better living for lots of us.

I am not a professional in this area, and I hestitate to attempt to individually diagnose you knowing as little as I do. But I do hope you will consider the possibility that what is wrong can be addressed through medicines rather than trying to change yourself morally, physically, or emotionally.

The big battles about gay rights and social homophobia have to be fought, and respectfully, I have been on the front lines pretty often. I don't think my suggestions about the normalcy of your experience was meant to suggest that it is "okay" in the big scheme of things. Only that what you report as your pain might be usefully addressed in ways that help you, literally, to feel better. At least for me, once I felt better I could approach such social injustice from the perspective of outrage instead of rejection and loss.

These things are so hard to convey on line, but my priority is supporting you and wanting you to find relief. I resist anyone (including you) suggesting that what is wrong can be corrected if you just "act" or "feel" differently. The relentless suggestion that depression is just feeling really bad, and you just need to stop it, or get out more, or analyze your past, or any other quick fix ignores the known reality that it is most often related to brain chemistry. I see many signs of your wanting to hold yourself responsible for things that I don't think you are, that's all.

I hope you are able to get the help that lightens the depression and helps you feel better. From my perspective, that is most likely going to come from an MD.

My best to you.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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You need to learn to love yourself before you can love another. Getting involved in a romantic relationship isn't going to fix things. Until we love ourselves and can freely love others, we are a drain on the relationship. I'd suggest you work on your life and being happy with yourself before you try and find a lover. Plus, well I don't put much stock in online romances. I know some that have married that way but it's too much like a mail order bride. Maybe, some day you can give people like me a chance to be your friend.
 

tallguypns

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invisibleman said:
Tallguy--

Well, wait no more. Ever heard of Judy Carter? She is a fine comedian. She has comedy workshops online. http://www.comedyworkshops.com/index.html

She also has some great comedy books on how to do Stand Up: I have a few of her books. One is called: "The Stand Up Comedy Book" and the other one is: "The Comedy Bible". Both are great insightful books on the ins and outs of standup". Check out those books. You can probably get them on Amazon. You can perform stand up comedy anywhere not just in "stand up comedy clubs".

Forgive me if I'm obtuse, but this just looks like an online advertisement for comedy workshops offered in the L.A. area.
 

tallguypns

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hootie said:
You need to learn to love yourself before you can love another. Getting involved in a romantic relationship isn't going to fix things. Until we love ourselves and can freely love others, we are a drain on the relationship. I'd suggest you work on your life and being happy with yourself before you try and find a lover. Plus, well I don't put much stock in online romances. I know some that have married that way but it's too much like a mail order bride. Maybe, some day you can give people like me a chance to be your friend.

I'm not denying anyone the chance to be my friend.
 

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WoW!
I am really impressed with the calibre of posts in response
to your asking for help.
Lot's of Caring Genuine people on this list!

Tall, it's clear you are at the right place and time.
It's really gratifying to see that the best of the best are
showing up for you.

Good on you!
It's just gonna keep getting better and better and better.
Believe it!

Rootin' for ya!:smile:
 

IntoxicatingToxin

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Okay, I didn't bother reading all the responses so I'm sure I'll say a thing or two that has been said by everyone else. But I'm going to say it anyway. :) I, too, have struggled with being overweight my whole life, and rejected. I, too, had a lot of one night stands and didn't feel attractive and felt worthless. It CAN be changed. I think the reason you do the "poor me" thing online and not in person is for a few reasons... "poor me" in person will just make people reject you to your face and that hurts, so you don't do it. "poor me" online is easier, you don't have to look at the person, and if they reject you, it's not as painful. People with "poor me" syndrome are just desiring attention. I am not a psychologist... but I've been told by several people that if there was just a big test you had to take to get your degree, I'd pass with flying colors. My psychologist told me I should be a psychologist!! So hopefully you'll try to take to heart some of what I'm going to say, despite the fact that I'm a complete stranger. First things first - you need to work on your self esteem. One thing I did that helped me with that was every morning when I woke up, I'd go look at myself in the mirror and say (out loud or in your head, doesn't matter...) all the things I liked about myself. Physically and otherwise. If a bad thought came into my head, I'd quickly dispel of it and continue trying to find the good things. Not always easy, but doable. And sometimes, you have to say things that you don't necessarily believe, but the things that other people keep telling you. Eventually you will believe it too. Also, find something you're good at and keep doing it. Self esteem builds when you're doing things on a daily basis that you don't feel like you failed at. Part of the reason you have a hard time meeting people is because of your negative attitude. Think about it... you see an attractive person at the bar, but they are sitting there, not smiling, all alone, shoulders slumped, and they reek of insecurity. Take the same attractive person sitting at the same bar, smiling, joking, laughing, and reeking of confidence... who are you more interested in?? If you have to pretend to have self esteem, then do it! Eventually it will feel real. You need to also deal with your past. Don't think about it on a daily basis, but schedule a time once or twice a week to just focus on that and how those events made you who you are today, and what can be done to change it. If you have anger towards certain people, write them a letter. That always helps me. Mail it if you want, or don't. Just getting the emotions out releases a lot of tension. I think as your self esteem gets better, some of the panic attack issues will go away as well. I, too, have suffered from panic attacks and still do on occasion, but they are getting less frequent. Here are some direct responses to the questions you asked at the end of your post...

Why am I so miserable?

Because you choose to be. Sounds stupid, right? But you do. Everything in life is a choice. How you handle what people say/do to you is a choice. Choose better. Choose to be happy. Choose to not be offended by the words people throw at you. Develop your self esteem. Do things you are good at. Enjoy life. Meditate. You'll be happier.

Why do I have no friends?

The answer to this is going to go hand in hand with your next question, which is why can't you get a date. Because people see you have no self esteem and that's a turn off. You seem needy. Constantly needing affirmation of how good of a person you are and how attractive you are. No one wants that. And I tell you... most people don't think this. It's instinct. They know they don't really like you, or you're not their type, but they don't necessarily know why right off the top of their heads. This is a big reason though.

Why do I struggle just make it through a day sometimes, while all the time appearing normal to everyone else?

Life is a struggle at times. But, same kinda thing I've been saying this whole time... become content and happy with who you are and it won't be such a struggle. You'll have more friends, more dates, more support.

Why do I keep saying things to people that consider me a friend that makes them not want to be my friend anymore?

This is more difficult to answer - depends on what kinds of things you are saying. If you are saying outright mean things, then it's because you have no self esteem and you try to belittle people to make yourself feel like the bigger better person. Is that what you meant?

Why is it the only reason I havent killled myself, thus far, is my incredible fear of what's on the other side of life?

Because there's a deeper reason. If you were meant to be dead, you would be by now, whether it was from suicide or something else. Seems to me like someone else deems you worthy to be on this planet. Someone bigger than you.

I hope that at least some of this was inspirational or eye opening or at least a bit of a help. Don't give up. That's the easy way out. If you need someone to talk to, feel free to PM me sometime. I think I'm a good listener. Just be prepared to sometimes hear things you don't necessarily like. ;) I'm not much of a sugar-coater. I, too, will recommend a book. It's called "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsh. There are three books in the series. They are simply amazing. They helped me turn around my life. Along with my own determination.
 

tallguypns

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TattooedMamaMeg said:
I, too, had a lot of one night stands

You misread, or I made my point unclear. I've not had a lot of one night stands. My average is about one every 9 months. Somewhere around 15- 18 people in total. As a percentage of sexual activities, it's a large percent since i've never had a partner other than the girlfriend of years ago. But taken in comparison with a lot of people that's a small number of partners.


TattooedMamaMeg said:
f you are saying outright mean things, then it's because you have no self esteem and you try to belittle people to make yourself feel like the bigger better person. Is that what you meant?

I'm never mean. I've never bellittled anyone. I never put other people down to make myself feel better. I am the ONLY target of my belittling.
 

tallguypns

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I want to thank all of you who responded kindly to this thread. It seems that the advice you have given me really will hurt. After all, it's so much easier to blame circumstances or someone else, when in truth, I'm the stupid idiot that's to blame for everything.

I've decided to try to act on some of this advice, and perhaps, I'll come back in a few months to let you all know how I'm doing. I suppose it all depends on how I do, and if the tone of the message board, in its current form, changes.

If for any reason (I doubt it would be the case) anyone wishes to stay in contact with me, I will leave my messenger IDs in my profile, and my "friends" here can feel free to stay in touch.
 

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I haven't sifted through all four pages of replies to see if someone already said this, but...

I can empathize with your situation and I want to put a positive spin on it. Because I have wrestled with self-esteem issues, body issues, and a whole host of things that I won't dive into at the moment. But what I have found out through my own experiences is that I think people who have been through a lot of these issues are more capable of truly loving other people and truly understanding other people's situations because of their own experiences. In the past, I've wished that I could have had a different life, a different body, a different personality even, but I wouldn't trade what I have for the world, because it has made me a person that I don't know I could be if I had been born with the proverbial golden spoon in my mouth.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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Your life didn't get this bad man without pain along the way. I hate to say it but sometimes you have to suffer more pain to get better. I had to do that every thing. I had to let many painful things come back to the surface and deal with them. Geesh I hated reliving the pain. I care what happens to you, and I hope you get the help you need.
Take care,
hootie
 

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quote:I vaguely consider myself a Christian, although the reasoned scientific part of my mind tells me there is no god. Pretty hard to be spiritual in a religion that tells you you're going to hell because of who you are.
end quote


It sounds like you are having a huge conflict in what you might believe and how you relate to that. I have a very close freind who stuggles in a similar way. It is hard to watch him suffer. We talk about spiritual things alot at times. He also has the memory gaps and so many other things you talked about in your post. If it had not been for the trumpet playing I might have thought it him in some paragraphs.

Step back from seeking sexual relationships and seek help with your struggles. Seek out the holistically healthy you. Don't define yourself by sexuality. Instead find your self in terms of other aspects of your being. Talents, personality, virtues, service to others. You have a support group and fan club here, surely you are making positive impacts on other peoples lives offline as well.

As far as questions like: Are you sucessful? measure this in terms of integrity, honesty, duty etc, not wealth, credentials
Are you decent? again measure this in terms of virtues, not superficial measures from Madison Avenue.
What do you believe? (rhetorical) Is this stronger than past experience and behavior, can what you believe be reconsiled with these? Can you change what you believe honestly? If not can you change behaviors that interfere? Only you can decide these things, however others can help.


You need to become strong, and well mentally and spiritually before you will be the person you would want to be in a relationship. I mean by that last sentence that you seem to be an honest person with much to offer and that having such integrity would make you require alot of yourself, and want to offer yourself accordingly. THis is a good thing. You just have to get in good shape in terms of being emotionally stable so you can put your healthy (not perfect) self in to a relationship.

In the mean time revisit, strengthen and persue freindships that will make your life more positive.

If you are a Christian, keep in mind that within the context of Christianity all sin is sin. It is tought that Jesus died for all sins. To put more weight on sexual sin, than for example on drunkeness, dishonesty, jelousy, hatred, rage, coveting, is unbiblical, and is a man-made distinction ( a form of hatred for others). A person stuggling with sexual or homosexual sin deserves the support of other Christians just as much as someone dealing with anger management issues, or gluttony. Unfortunately this is not the case in most groups, because of the stigma against sexual subjects etc. that exists both inside and outside of Christian circles.

Within the teachings of Christianity, those who perform homosexual acts are no more or less on the way to hell than others who are without salvation through Christ.

Only you can decide where you stand in all of this. If you at your inner most core are a Christian who believes that homosexual sexual behavior is sinful, you need to step back from that behaviour until you either change what you believe or find away to reconcile it with those believes.

Celebacy never killed anyone, especially temporarily, but suicide by people stuggling with faith issues certainly has. I lost a freind to this.

Depression is a very real thing, your pain is real, very human. Your need to reachout is a sign of being human. I hope that you will find some relief from your pain so that it will remain managable until you can get the help and redirection you need. Take positive actions in your life. They say that emotions/feelings will follow behaviour. Do things you enjoy, help someone, take a walk, stop to pet a kitten, clean out a closet or garage, vacuum you car, get a hair cut, etc .etc. Just do positive things make plans for the future, stay pro-active, you are a great cause.

Even if you have been in pain a really long time, it can and will get better someday. Be encouraged, and have courage, hang in there you can make it.
 

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Well, I'm just a new member here and happened upon your post. I did read it and I do care. I find it heartbreaking to hear anyone experiencing these feelings and worrisome when someone feels compelled to speak of suicide. Judging from the last edit by you I see you are still around and have to tell you that I'm relieved to see so despite not knowing you.
Sadly there is a shallow nature to the world of gay guys; it exists with straight folks too. So many people have experienced the kinds of pain you have and understand aspects of what you've gone through though perhaps not all of what you've endured. I hope you can keep the notion inside that there are people who care, both by those who love you and even those who don't know you at all.
Sometimes it's a challenge to find attraction in those who are attracted to us and incredibly disheartening when those we desire have no idea we even exist. And it royally sucks that the one thing standing between taking that and moving forward saying 'fuck it, i love myself and that's all I need until I find what I'm looking for' is esteem. It's a painful reality of the human condition to have to hold our consciousness responsible for self critical, cruel, and self loathing behavior in our desire to seek the happiness that we feel we deserve and our consciousness seems to dictate we demand.
I hope that you can move forward knowing you are not alone despite how isolated you may feel. There are many, as I can see from the 4+ pgs. of replies I've not read, that stand by you and will lift you up -perhaps just as friends- with love, compassion, and constancy.
Many thoughts of love and happiness to you from just another anonymous consciousness-bound monkey :) Jeffrey
 

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tallguypns said:
I vaguely consider myself a Christian, although the reasoned scientific part of my mind tells me there is no god. Pretty hard to be spiritual in a religion that tells you you're going to hell because of who you are.

I am with you on this one completely, tallguy. But something an open-minded, accepting straight minister (who supports gay marriage, by the way) said back in the early 1990s was instructive and continues to be thought-provoking: "Don't let anyone else try to tell you who's included in your faith and who's not, especially when they're trying to shut you out. No matter how unorthodox your approach is to any organized religion, you will always have company in your views."

NCbear
 

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tripod said:
LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY (THIS MUST BE DONE IN ORDER TO ENSURE YOUR SURVIVAL). Take that little boy that is inside of you and hug the shit out of him, stroke his hair and tell him he is beautiful. LOVE YOURSELF TallGuy, we are all pulling for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I second and third and ....

I agree completely, tallguy. Find ways to show yourself you love yourself, too. As Invisibleman said later on in this same thread, it's never too late to have a (happy) childhood.

Try new things, meet new people, enjoy the world. You've got a lot of depth and breadth and quality in your character that others would appreciate.

And this is from someone who from time to time feels a small percentage of what you're going through.

NCbear
 

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tallguypns said:
I want to thank all of you who responded kindly to this thread. It seems that the advice you have given me really will hurt. After all, it's so much easier to blame circumstances or someone else, when in truth, I'm the stupid idiot that's to blame for everything.

No, the message is that FROM NOW ON, you're the only person who can make changes in your life, which means you DO have power over your life. You can indeed make things happen, instead of reacting to how life happens to you.

And with that growing feeling of control over your life, you'll be more self-confident and more optimistic, thus being more attractive to others.

PM me any time, tallguy. All the flirtatiousness about your bearish good looks aside, I think you're a great guy and need to find that out for yourself.

NCbear
 

tallguypns

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tallguypns said:
I want to thank all of you who responded kindly to this thread. It seems that the advice you have given me really will hurt. After all, it's so much easier to blame circumstances or someone else, when in truth, I'm the stupid idiot that's to blame for everything.

I've decided to try to act on some of this advice, and perhaps, I'll come back in a few months to let you all know how I'm doing. I suppose it all depends on how I do, and if the tone of the message board, in its current form, changes.

If for any reason (I doubt it would be the case) anyone wishes to stay in contact with me, I will leave my messenger IDs in my profile, and my "friends" here can feel free to stay in touch.
Ok, I had to come back to deal with some PMs and the advice on this thread. I dont think I made it very clear here that I was leaving the site. One person (Jeff Black) noticed and PMd me.

Feel free to continue to respond to this thread for anyone else that may be having the same problems I am having. If you wish for me to hear your advice, however, you'll need to contact me on one of the messengers, myspace, or by emailing me at my yahoo account.

Just so it's clear. I am leaving this site. Goodbye.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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tallguypns said:
Ok, I had to come back to deal with some PMs and the advice on this thread. I dont think I made it very clear here that I was leaving the site. One person (Jeff Black) noticed and PMd me.

Feel free to continue to respond to this thread for anyone else that may be having the same problems I am having. If you wish for me to hear your advice, however, you'll need to contact me on one of the messengers, myspace, or by emailing me at my yahoo account.

Just so it's clear. I am leaving this site. Goodbye.

Dont leave. I tried to email you through the system and it said you weren't accepting emails. I don't have any of the Instant messengers because my computer is on the fritz.