Looks Like OBAMACARE is going down in flames!!!!!

B_24065

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But props to President Obama for trying to reach common ground. Too bad That won't ever happen...

Common ground???? Between who???? Liberal democrats and moderate democrats?

I guess people forget how this bill was passed in the first place. It didn't get a majority of votes it needed so the dems passed it through reconciliation. Dirty dirty dirty.
 

tamati

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the greedyopressiveperverts wanted the mandate put in just so they could make sure the supreme beings would toss it...
they rather sabotage than serve.

its like putting up douches like mitt,rick and newt to make sure they dont win and have to try and clean up dubyas dicky debacle.
 

B_24065

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Just to be clear, the left didn't want this bullshit watered-down conservative compromise so it isnt exactly a blow to liberals if this law gets shot down.

Oh yes it is. Tell yourself whatever you'd like to make yourself feel better but Obamacare was just a foundation to build upon.
 

gymfresh

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Maybe Congress should have gone in the other direction, eliminating any subsidy or even any offering of health plans to federal employees, including Members of Congress, federal judges (including the USSC) and their staffs. Then see how fast the government acts to do the right thing.

In its ability to regulate commerce, does Congress have the power to forbid private health insurance policies and health plans? Why not? The insurance companies and HMOs have created a disruptive, lopsided market that impedes the market in people changing jobs and contributes to families going bankrupt.

At the other extreme, since Medicare is administered by HHS, what's to stop the president from issuing an executive order opening up Medicare to any American that wants to pay for it? That might be the impetus for Congress to act and address the tax rate to finally bring the population into one risk pool. We're already taxed for roads and bridges all over this country. Healthcare is 1/6 of the whole economy, and a healthy, job-mobile workforce is more productive, so there's just as much basis for Congress to tax us all for basic healthcare as for any other "commercial" purpose. This one's commercial and general welfare -- a double whammy by constitutional conferrals. Congress's mistake was in not decreeing that the mandated premiums be paid directly to the government, so it would fit squarely within the Taxing & Spending clause.
 

SilverTrain

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Maybe Congress should have gone in the other direction, eliminating any subsidy or even any offering of health plans to federal employees, including Members of Congress, federal judges (including the USSC) and their staffs. Then see how fast the government acts to do the right thing.

In its ability to regulate commerce, does Congress have the power to forbid private health insurance policies and health plans? Why not? The insurance companies and HMOs have created a disruptive, lopsided market that impedes the market in people changing jobs and contributes to families going bankrupt.

At the other extreme, since Medicare is administered by HHS, what's to stop the president from issuing an executive order opening up Medicare to any American that wants to pay for it? That might be the impetus for Congress to act and address the tax rate to finally bring the population into one risk pool. We're already taxed for roads and bridges all over this country. Healthcare is 1/6 of the whole economy, and a healthy, job-mobile workforce is more productive, so there's just as much basis for Congress to tax us all for basic healthcare as for any other "commercial" purpose. This one's commercial and general welfare -- a double whammy by constitutional conferrals. Congress's mistake was in not decreeing that the mandated premiums be paid directly to the government, so it would fit squarely within the Taxing & Spending clause.

Careful. You'll put the local Republican punditry into "panic mode".
 

gymfresh

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What is your point? I'm not sure who you have heard make this argument but I think most people realize that this isn't about Obama mandating anything.

Then why do you keep calling it Obamacare in every post and in SCREAMING LETTERS in the title of this thread? Just to be irritating?
 

redneckgymrat

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Careful. You'll put the local Republican punditry into "panic mode".

Why?

Our primary concern has been the expansion of Federal power beyond the limits set in the Constitution. Our opposition has nothing to do with "making sure poor people remain sick" or whatever nonsense you've imagined.

That particular suggestion, though I might not be completely in favor of it, *would* at least fit within the Constitutional framework!..not the executive order part, but at least the general approach.
 

SilverTrain

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Why?

Our primary concern has been the expansion of Federal power beyond the limits set in the Constitution. Our opposition has nothing to do with "making sure poor people remain sick" or whatever nonsense you've imagined.

That particular suggestion, though I might not be completely in favor of it, *would* at least fit within the Constitutional framework!..not the executive order part, but at least the general approach.

What "our"? "Your" politicians PROPOSED the expansion of Federal power when they proposed the individual mandate. "Your" politicians (and judges) have repeatedly gleefully grabbed Federal power when it suits their aims. So your faux-concern with the expansion of Federal power is a purely cynical tool to oppose anything associated with the Obama Administration or any other Democratic politician.

"panic mode" mirrors OP's language.
 

manju

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Why?

Our primary concern has been the expansion of Federal power beyond the limits set in the Constitution. Our opposition has nothing to do with "making sure poor people remain sick" or whatever nonsense you've imagined.

That particular suggestion, though I might not be completely in favor of it, *would* at least fit within the Constitutional framework!..not the executive order part, but at least the general approach.


With your reasoning it can be deduced that every government entity not in the Constitution should be eradicated because it has no legitimacy.

Why aren't you demanding the abolition of the IRS and the Federal Reserve? They were never part of the Constitution and greatly over reach the powers of the Federal Government granted by the Constitution, more so than any healthcare bill.

If you aren't, it just seems that you are a cafeteria Constitutionalist picking and choosing what to keep according to your political agendas.
 

TheBestYouCan

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Why aren't you demanding the abolition of the IRS and the Federal Reserve? They were never part of the Constitution and greatly over reach the powers of the Federal Government granted by the Constitution, more so than any healthcare bill.

These can go away too. Feel better?
 

str821

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I'm going to stand up for 24605, on this one. His concerns, as stated, have been about legality, Constitutionality, and long term consequences, which indicates that he is thinking rather deeply about this subject. So, yes, I would hold him up as a "pillar of intellect" with regards to this discussion.

No one, even its most ardent detractors, has said that having health insurance, or affordable access to health care, is anything but desirable.

Its detractors have simply said that shredding the Constitution, by over-reaching the Constitutional limits on Federal authority, is a very bad way to do it.

If this law is struck down (and I, too, sincerely hope that it is), then it will be the American patriots who actually *understand* Constitutional law and limits on Federal authority, who struck it down.

The fact that you agree with a law, does not automatically make it a *good* law.


I don't have particularly strong feelings about this issue, but where in the constitution does it say that Congress may not regulate commerce so as to compel anyone to buy anything? There is an appealing natural rights argument that you can try to include by inference through the Ninth Amendment, but there is nothing in the Constitution that invalidates the individual mandate.
 
D

deleted15807

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At the other extreme, since Medicare is administered by HHS, what's to stop the president from issuing an executive order opening up Medicare to any American that wants to pay for it?

That's what they should do and dispense with insurance companies altogether. Just announce in 10 yrs Medicare will be eligible for people 55 and older and every ten years just keep dropping the age until Medicare covers the nation. Plenty of time for the leaches to find another business. The link between health insurance and employment needs to be broken.
 

D_Sal_Manilla

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i think that before we talk about healthcare, we should fix social security and Welfare along with medicare and medicaid.

fix what we have now beofre our healthcare system is over worked and abused.
 

lucidbass

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Obamacare is such a red herring. Celebrating that it 'goes up in flames'? Please. American healthcare has been a mess long before Obamacare and will be longer after.

It's merely a symptom, not a diagnosis. Fighting about 'obamacare' is pointlessly beating around the bush. If you don't like the way healthcare, or anything is handled by state, argue about the devaluation of currency through the cartelization of money supply or corporate control over market regulations.
 

blazblue

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The left is in full panic mode. Like with most issues, they thought reason was on their side on this one but like always, it wasn't.

Toobin: 'This Law Looks Like It's Going To Be Struck Down' - YouTube

Totally premature but I cannot resist myself:

Kool & The Gang - Celebration - YouTube

Since you're so against this I'm just going to ask you and the other posters who's against Obamacare (which is really Romneycare) this question:

ARE YOU YOUR BROTHER'S (OR SISTER'S) KEEPER?
 

OhWiseOne

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A Supreme Court that upholds the Patriot Act. lmao.

The Supreme Court needs to be abolished, or at the very least they need to be given term limits. Their actions were repugnant during the 2000 election. These people don't care about the Constitution. Scalia is a fucking cancer on the bench!

I doubt this health care act will be completely abolished. America should have universal health care already, like the rest of the Western World. God, why doesn't America just progress already?! God. We look like a bunch of knuckle-dragging cowards. Everything is how something makes us "feel". It's not based on logic, or actual research. We have the highest rate of infantile death on record.

I'd really love to see Social Security and Medicare taken away for one year. The country would implode. The people who are supposedly against Socialism, won't dare give up those programs.

This country subsidizes too many morons. The Red States take social programs at record levels, and have the most abortions.

You want to know why people are against any government programs? They don't want "darkie" getting one red cent of their hard earned money, even if it means that they and their children will be up shit creek. They'll just pray to Jesus that everything works out. They see anyone non-white as lazy. The fact that they blame illegal immigrants as the reason the economy is bad, proves that they're are a lot of fucking morons in this country. Keep kissing up to the "Free Market", and sucking CEO dicks.
Abolish the supreme court really? Then who would be the voice of the constitution? The elected party. That makes me feel better. Limited terms might be a better solution.

Social Security... sure take it away but give me the money that I have contributed so that I can invest it..... please

Your last comment is so racist it's not worth commenting on but I will. I don't look at color with regards to social programs but people like you want to use that as the card. The fact is there are people that have made a job out of the social programs and have no limitations put on them. They have every reason not to attempt to improve thier lives. As far as illegal immigrants and ruining our economy that's a bunch of BS. We ruined the economy, the U.S. government. The word you really need to focus on is "illegal". Come into this counry legally, work hard and I wish anyone the best of success. But based on your thoughts this group of people should get the same benefits as a citizen. I am reading into your comments but I'm probably not far off.

And finally I love the "Free Market".