Lord Young tells the British public "you've never had it so good"

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Speculator, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. Speculator

    Speculator New Member

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    Tory peer Lord young has incensed right minded folk up and down the UK with his insensitive comments.

    Apparently we're squeamish over a bit of straight talk which means politicians can't win. Either they're lying cheating scumbags or they're "insensitive" when they tell it how it is.

    Here's what he said; british homeowners have seen their mortgage repayments drop since the recession kicked in, well they have due to the zero interest rate policy. losing 100,000 jobs in a 30million job economy is little more than a statisitical error, again this is mathmatically correct as it amounts to about 0.3% of total jobs. Finally he claimed that angst over the Cuts was misguided, well as there aren't going to be any cuts -people are making up stuff about a structural deficit and a normal deficit to make it look the Tories are tackling the problem, there's only one deficit- he's correct, gov't spending is actually increasing year on year.


    The backlash says more about the public than it does about Lord Young, the government have bailed out every reckless individual and institution going but it's considered impolite to say so without mincing your words.
     
    #1 Speculator, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  2. dandelion

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    You beat me to it. I was going to start a thread- british politician dismissed for telling truth.

    As I remember the phrase 'youve never had it so good' didnt go down very well the first time either from conservative pm Harold Macmillan.
     
  3. Joll

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    If they're painting it that way, can they really blame people for thinking there's a problem?
     
  4. Drifterwood

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    A mate who works in the Public Sector was telling me recently that they can lose 100K jobs a year from natural wasteage. No cuts, just no growth where none was needed. It's like gently steering a boat back on course.

    But then my Party (membership 1) thinks that people in need would be better served if the Public Sector was 40% more efficient, i.e. performing to the same standards as the Private Sector.
     
  5. Jason

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    His comments may have been insensitive and may have caused upset (at least the media and Labour party tell us they caused upset). But I'm not sure that he got his facts wrong, and I'm not convinced that his comments were so very outrageous. His job was on a think tank (he's resigned) and as such he is supposed to put forward views.

    What is interesting is that Labour's attack on the Coalition's policies seems to be on nothing more than that they are insensitive. Labour seem to have accepted that a double dip recession is unlikely and so far unemployment is actually down a tad. It might even be that the Coalition's policies are working. So we're left with the idea that they are right but insensitive. And Lord Young walked right into th trap.
     
  6. Speculator

    Speculator New Member

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    I must admit this has had me going for a bit, when I was teaching myself a couple of years back it took me a while to figure out the difference between the debt and the deficit (but I don't feel ashamed because some politicians still don't know the difference!), then when I finally got the hang of it I'm told that there are actually 2 deficits; the structural one and the normal one. Bollocks to that, there's one deficit. And it's currently around £10bn per month.

    It's just propaganda the Tories benefit from as they can claim they're tackling the (structural) deficit without going through the bother of spending less money! Genius.

    They don't need to explain it like this, it's a nonsense. What they mean is the deficit is being cut -overall spending isn't- and they're making up the difference with tax hikes. So Lord Young is right, all the fuss about the Cuts is hyperbole, the gov't are cutting zilch.
     
  7. Drifterwood

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    Which is why I, who borrow nothing, but have savings and earn a lot, (60% of which seems to go back to government now) have spent the morning looking at apartments on the other side of the world.

    I just can't take it anymore.
     
  8. Joll

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    If the national debt (£160bn?) and yearly budget deficit can be lowered without cuts (just raising taxes and expenditure freezes?), then maybe the extra hyperbole is to calm the markets? Having said that tho - there must be a problem somewhere, since so many countries are in the same boat.

    I guess national debt approaching (or exceeding) 100% of GDP is partly what has scuppered several countries, including Greece and Ireland - along with a large budget deficit and shrinking economy?

    Thing is tho - surely the Gov are making cuts? Haven't there been huge cutbacks in Gov depts such as the MOD, or at least freezes?

    Booo. It's been a really crap time to save. I got an ISA in 2007 thinking I was wise n clever, and it basically yielded fuck all. Rate was fairly crap to begin with, then dropped to like 0.25% after the first year, lol - so it was losing value in real terms? :S

    Also...Gordon raising top rate to 50% was a mistake, imo - and lost them the support of big business. Scrapping 10% rate for low earners was tight too. Don't think Gordo could admit he needed to make cuts in spending when the boom came to an end.
     
    #8 Joll, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2010
  9. Speculator

    Speculator New Member

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    The official national debt is around £1trillion and it's being increased by £120bn pa at current rates, which as you say is around 100% of GDP. This isn't the end of the world on it's own, we're often told that a house purchase should be no more than 3.5x your annual salary for example (or 350% of "GDP"), which gives an idea about how much debt it's possible to sustain comfetably. But there's a few problems. First we're increasing the debt and appear unable to pay it down, also don't know how much debt we're truly in because of unfunded pension obligations and our PFI commitments, also we don't know what our national income really is. The figures are distorted by government overspend, so lets say our true debt is £2trn and our real income/GDP is around £700bn, this is comes close to 300% and that's not including private debt!


    Here's the official forecast for total spending: 2008/9 £621bn; 2009/10 £669bn; 2010/11 £697bn; 2014/15 £740bn

    There's been plenty of talk about cuts, and the coalition have been condemned by left for savage cuts, but as usual it's a load of BS. The figures speak for themselves. This is why people are confusing the matter with structural vs recessionary deficits, or spending rises below inflation. It's because they cannot admit to themselves that the Tory party are unable deliver a financially sound government.




    My Nationwide ISA dropped from 5% to 0.25%, then they were shocked when I closed it. Currently getting around 2.6% on both my accounts now.
     
    #9 Speculator, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  10. Endued

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    'Squeamish over straight talk'. Good grief!
     
  11. Drifterwood

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    Take the tax off and then refer to the inflation rate.

    You're losing money. Interesting how the government still takes a proportion even though in real terms you are incurring a loss.
     
  12. superbot

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    The man shouldn't have resigned,it's absurd.What next Cameron gonna expect some other poor sod to quit for saying the clouds are black today instead of 'diverse'!?
     
  13. Speculator

    Speculator New Member

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    The tax system is all wrong, they penalise the activites that are good for the economy: saving, working and investing and simultaneously pay for a professional underclass to live on benefits.

    I don't have any kids so the government feel free to tax me for all I'm worth and then give nothing back, even when I need it.
     
    #13 Speculator, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  14. SilverTrain

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    According to some, Obama should have been tarred, feathered, sued and impeached for having the audacity to criticize BP, so.......
     
  15. Speculator

    Speculator New Member

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    The BP disaster was a dream come true for Obama, there's nothing lefties like more than a good oil spill.
     
  16. SilverTrain

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    Oh, how the worm turns!

    Such a lovely bit of analysis. Pity it only apparently applies to British politicians.
     
  17. SilverTrain

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    Going off topic in your own thread in a naked effort to provoke, is outside the bounds of decorum in this sub-forum. FYI.

    I invoked Obama's name only because there had been so much hand-wringing and accusation-hurling in the wake of his critical (and quite factual [i.e., "straight talk"]) comments regarding the oil spill.
     
  18. dandelion

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    Gosh! didnt anyone read the budget statement? It explains all this stuff about not cutting the budget and crossing our fingers everything will be fine. Though it doesnt put it quite like that.

    people said what i would have: that debts of 50% gdp isnt bad compared to the traditional mortgage loan of 3.5x earnings, but the problem is the numbers arent real. Can we get away with simply cancelling all PFI contracts by act of parliament? I think its called 'nationalisation'?

    There is a lot of political positioning in the governments claim to be cutting and it does not suit them that someone on their own side is saying it is nonsense. It is especially true because while he may be correct that the majority of people are actually better off right now because of the recession, a minority are definitely worse off. The government has no indentions of addressing this inequality. We need a mortgage windfall tax, which increase the amount of income tax you pay if your mortgge payments have gone down.

    The BBC just said that according to published figure young was precisely correct that on average people were better off in 2009 than at the start of the recession. In 2010 however, things have taken a turn for the worse, but it might still be true that more are better off than worse off: on average they are now worse off.
     
    #18 dandelion, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  19. Joll

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    Dude, you were the one who brought BP and Obama into this (unnecessarily) - seems a bit disingenuous to blame Speculator when he responds.
     
  20. Speculator

    Speculator New Member

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    The comparison doesn't strike me as valid; Obama took the easy way out. It's not exactly difficult to attack a major oil conglomerate when they're busy covering seagulls and dolphins under millions of barrels of oil. Criticising your own constituents during an economic crisis though for "never having it so good" requires balls of steel.

    If Obama had told the U.S to not complain because BP provide a valuable service and sometimes accidents happen then I would have agreed with you.
     
    #20 Speculator, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
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